Bigfoot Evidence?

[tomato1236]

Ideally, we'll discover that not only does Bigfoot exist, but he's responsible for abducting people and doing sexual experiments on them, then returning them to their bed with no memory of the event; just a microscopic seam where their limbs have been severed and re-attached. And implants. Not the breast kind.

 

[Nepenthe]

Many critics of the sasquatch phenomenon point to the scarcity of photographic or video evidence as a reason to doubt the existence of the species. Although no one has ever debunked the best footage that is available, skeptics continue to question why sasquatch images are so rare. Quick logic suggests there should be miles of footage if the animals really do live in our forests, especially considering how much footage there is of other large North American mammals.

It is possible to obtain footage/photos of these particular animals, but the odds of this happening randomly are sharply reduced by particular factors:

-- Sightings of sasquatches are unpredictable. They occur only in rural areas. Very few people in rural areas keep a decent camera handy at all times.

I missed this post so please bear with me if I'm beating a dead horse hide sasquatch suit faked for a film. I'll keep it brief.

Bigfoot devotees look at absence of evidence as confirmation of Bigfoot’s behavioral patterns when the more likely explanation is that there are no big primates stomping around in the woods. The problem I have with the “no camera” argument is that many have actively sought that oh-so-elusive Bigfoot pic and consistently come up empty handed or with pics of black bears screwing around sans bigfeet.

-- Witnesses consistently describe initial confusion and/or fear during their sighting.

That would explain why shadowy bushes and black bears are often misinterpreted as Bigfoot. :sarcastic

-- Sightings typically last only a few seconds. A camcorder's auto-focus, by itself, takes a few seconds to adjust.

This doesn’t seem particularly relevant.I'll elaborate below and cover several cases of rare animals that have been caught on film and during camera trap operations.

-- Very few people go out looking for these animals for the purpose of photographing them. Most bigfoot researchers are "arm chair" researchers.

Agreed that most are armchair researchers with little to no understanding of biology, anthropology, or any semblance of a rational scientific approach to analyzing Bigfoot claims.

-- Sasquatches seem to be on the move most of the time, following deer/elk herds like nomadic predators, or hunter-gatherers. There are no dens or nests that are occupied continuously or predictably. Their temporary dens and nests are quickly abandoned when approached by humans, so there's no easy way for wildlife paparazzi to catch them at home.

If Bigfoot researchers know the predictable migrations of deer/elk and whatnot and they assume Bigfeet follow these migrations why is there no evidence yet? Hell, if you can narrow their presence down to the migrating herds there should be hundreds of pics of the things by now.

-- The only practical opportunities for footage or photos with everyday cameras are situations where a sasquatch is observed out in the open, in the day time, from a distance, for several minutes. Those situations are rarely described.

Not at all. Camera traps have been set up in the deep dark woods, not in the open, at night, yet nothing has come of it. I'll explain further below.

-- The typical habitats are dense, brushy, quiet forests, where human intruders can be heard well before they get within visual range. In those environments a person can be completely invisible to someone standing less than 10 feet away.

-- Sasquatches are likely nocturnal. Hunters and fisherman almost never hunt after dark without a flashlight or lamp.

-- Sasquatches are likely intelligent. Just as their bodies are much larger than humans', so, apparently, are their heads, and presumably their brain cavities as well. They don't live like humans, but they are certainly more complex than other ape species.

Bigfoot researchers can daydream and make up all manner of attributes as long as they hide the simple fact there is zero evidence of their existence. It helps them perpetuate the delusion that a massive primate roams North America completely undetected to date.

-- They may be the most elusive land mammal species of all, yet they receive the least amount of effort or attention from the government.

I think unicorns are pretty high on the list too, but the elusive and the non-existent look much alike. The arguments presented are typical and in that they're a kind of special pleading. Bigfoot fans have nothing substantive to present.

As for the camera evidence or lack thereof, here's one example: since April 2006 Operation Forest Vigil have placed Reconyx and Cuddeback camera traps all over Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas in hopes of getting a clear photo of Bigfoot. By their own admission they have zero evidence to show for their efforts so far. Contrast OFV’s efforts with those of biologists who’ve captured clear photographic evidence of such elusive creatures as, for example, the Sumatran rhino. There are only six tiny populations left in Sumatra, Malaysia and Borneo with an estimated total of 270 remaining. They are solitary, shy elusive animals yet biologists managed to capture pictures of the 50 or less rhinos remaining in the forests of Sabah- Sabah being the second largest Malaysian state and covering 73,997 sq. km of which 3.5 million hectares is rhino inhabited forest. 3.5 million hectares!

They set up two cameras in an area comprising a potential 3.5 million hectares and had amazingly comprehensive first ever footage of the rhino within 4 weeks. Sure the rhino had already been pretty well studied and scientists knew it was there- it wasn’t like they were trying to establish its existence. But it does show how a rare and elusive critter with a tiny breeding population in a vast stretch of unexplored forest was definitively documented with two cameras within a month.

Where the **** is Bigfoot?

I could also use the examples of the Sumatran striped rabbit or the recently confirmed presence of the rare Vulpes vulpes necator, last seen in the 1920s but caught on camera last August and genetically confirmed by the saliva it left on the bait. A dwindling population of only 20 is known to inhabit the area 150 miles north of this find yet there is now undeniable photographic and genetic evidence of an isolated population here.

Where the **** is Bigfoot?

Nobody Looks for Bigfoot Remains[/b]


No serious work has ever been done to look for remains of surviving wood apes in areas where they are rumored to reside. No one should expect remains of such an elusive species to be found, collected and identified without some effort.

Very few remains of ancient wood apes have ever been found in Asia, where they were much more abundant. Millions of gigantos (a branch of the wood ape line) lived and died in Asia over the ages. All the remaining physical evidence we have of them could fit into a few shoe boxes. Fossils of any land animal are very rare.

Remains do not become fossilized very often, but unless that happens, all the remains will, in time, become completely reabsorbed into the ecosystem. There would be remains of animals everywhere if remains were not naturally recycled, including bones and teeth.

Fossils or preserved bones of wood apes may exist in the Americas, but they will be exceedingly rare, because these animals are rare to begin with, and only a tiny fraction of that population will die in locations and soils that will preserve bones somehow. Odds are slim at best that any bones (which are normally fragmentary) will be found, collected and identified unless a focused effort is made to look for them. Until efforts are made in many places, over a long period of time, no one should be scratching their head wondering why "we" don't have any physical remains.

I won't spend too much time on this one but it brings up the question concerning Bigfoot researchers favorite model Gigantopithecus blacki- why are there no Bigfoot remains when we have several Gigantopithecus mandibles and teeth available? Why is there no physical evidence of Bigfoot?

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Very sparse fossil evidence suggests Big Foot or a creature very much like it was real

 

[painted wolf]

except that is not what Gigantopithecus looked like... it was quadrupedal like a gorilla... You can tell by the narrowness of the jaw. Such a narrow jaw means the head can not be on top of the neck like it is in a human. Otherwise the fossils also indicate it was more Orang like than hominid like.

This is a much more likely reconstruction... showing it's relationship to Orangutans.

wa:do

 

[Reptillian]

Orangutan Gargantua:

[youtube]5g-Y34Kakv0[/youtube]
YouTube - Lou Costello VS King Kong

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Gigantopithecus probably would have been much too weak in the legs to walk upright for any sustained distance. Most of its muscle mass would be in its upper body, and that would be massive! endowing it with feats of such strength to even wrestle and bring down an elephant, but the downside is when it comes to walking upright with all the upper body muscle mass, it would be like carrying a buffalo on its shoulders.

 

[painted wolf]

Gigantopithecus probably would have been much too weak in the legs to walk upright for any sustained distance. Most of its muscle mass would be in its upper body, and that would be massive! endowing it with feats of such strength to even wrestle and bring down an elephant, but the downside is when it comes to walking upright with all the upper body muscle mass, it would be like carrying a buffalo on its shoulders.

I doubt it could face an elephant... even with the upper body mass you suggest... and elephant still has several tons of muscle over Giganto.

It likely didn't have enough energy to do so either... The teeth show that it fed on Bamboo, a very nutrient poor food. It's great bulk likely was devoted to carrying a stomach large enough to digest it's food and jaws big enough to process it.
It would most likely have been even more pot-bellied than gorillas. And not exactly a mover and shaker of any endurance.

wa:do

 

[Nepenthe]

I doubt it could face an elephant... even with the upper body mass you suggest... and elephant still has several tons of muscle over Giganto.

It likely didn't have enough energy to do so either... The teeth show that it fed on Bamboo, a very nutrient poor food. It's great bulk likely was devoted to carrying a stomach large enough to digest it's food and jaws big enough to process it.
It would most likely have been even more pot-bellied than gorillas. And not exactly a mover and shaker of any endurance.

wa:do

Hmph. PWd again... I'm posting anyway.
Gigantapithecus was also confined to Southeast Asia. Did Gigantopithecus cross the Bering Strait before, after or with the humans 12,000 years ago? Was it a Clovis road trip for all involved?
Gigantopithecus’ dentition suggests it had a specialized diet: its upper and lower jaws were robust, the canines flat, the incisors smaller and compact, the molars are also flat with a very thick enamel. They’re teeth adapted to crushing and grinding tough fibrous foods. Their diet had more in common with pandas than any living primate whose diets tend to be more varied. How could such an animal survive the trek from Asia, across the Bering Strait into N. America? Gigantopithecus was a knuckle walker as well. It’s just a really poor match for what is commonly reported with bigfoot claims.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hmph. PWd again... I'm posting anyway.
Gigantapithecus was also confined to Southeast Asia. Did Gigantopithecus cross the Bering Strait before, after or with the humans 12,000 years ago? Was it a Clovis road trip for all involved?

Bigfoot met with them in Roswell to watch the crash of the UFOs in 1947.

 

[Nepenthe]

Bigfoot met with them in Roswell to watch the crash of the UFOs in 1947.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I knew it!!!

 

[outhouse]

It likely didn't have enough energy to do so either... The teeth show that it fed on Bamboo, a very nutrient poor food. It's great bulk likely was devoted to carrying a stomach large enough to digest it's food and jaws big enough to process it.
It would most likely have been even more pot-bellied than gorillas. And not exactly a mover and shaker of any endurance.

Correct

Gigantopithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but your also refering to Gigantopithecus giganteus that lived in what is now india.

Based on the slim fossil finds, it was a large, ground-dwelling herbivore that ate primarily bamboo and foliage.

theres also


Gigantopithecus bilaspurensis is a very large fossil ape identified from a few jaw bones and teeth from India. G. bilaspurensis lived about 6 to 9 million years ago in the Miocene. It is related to Gigantopithecus blacki.

AND

Gigantopithecus blacki

You can tell by the narrowness of the jaw. Such a narrow jaw means the head can not be on top of the neck like it is in a human.

Wiki tells a little different story


a minority opinion favor bipedal locomotion, most notably championed by the late Grover Krantz, but this assumption is based only on the very few jawbone remains found, all of which are U-shaped and widen towards the rear. This allows room for the windpipe to be within the jaw, allowing the skull to sit squarely upon a fully-erect spine like modern humans, rather than roughly in front of it, like the other great apes

 

[outhouse]

also take this into consideration.

One flavor of the Bigfoot-Giganto hypothesis suggests that bigfoots might not be direct descendants of the genus Gigantopithecus

I like this photo better

 

[painted wolf]

Correct

Gigantopithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but your also refering to Gigantopithecus giganteus that lived in what is now india.

Based on the slim fossil finds, it was a large, ground-dwelling herbivore that ate primarily bamboo and foliage.

theres also


Gigantopithecus bilaspurensis is a very large fossil ape identified from a few jaw bones and teeth from India. G. bilaspurensis lived about 6 to 9 million years ago in the Miocene. It is related to Gigantopithecus blacki.

AND

Gigantopithecus blacki



Wiki tells a little different story


a minority opinion favor bipedal locomotion, most notably championed by the late Grover Krantz, but this assumption is based only on the very few jawbone remains found, all of which are U-shaped and widen towards the rear. This allows room for the windpipe to be within the jaw, allowing the skull to sit squarely upon a fully-erect spine like modern humans, rather than roughly in front of it, like the other great apes

Krantz was working, (in the 1980's) with partial jawbones that were... let's say generously widened... as you can see from the complete, intact jaw, it is very narrow.
Better fossils were found and Krantz's ideas are no longer accepted outside bigfoot lore.

You like that repro, because the critter is shown upright... but if you look carefully you see it isn't in the manner we are, but in the manner gorillas stand. Including holding on to a support.

For a large quadruped to so quickly evolve into such a human like biped... is problematic.

Here is a comparison with H.erectus showing the narrowness of the jaw.

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

I understand

that jawbone is still Gigantopithecus giganteus and I dont believe theres enough evidence at hand to make any conclusion with certainty regarding the other Gigantopithecus.

the legend may not be a Gigantopithecus blacki anyway.

I had issues with the narrow jaw myself. Theres no way that jaw would be the same as the patterson creature

On a side note, many juvinille sightings have indicated the animals running on all 4's

 

[painted wolf]

I understand

that jawbone is still Gigantopithecus giganteus and I dont believe theres enough evidence at hand to make any conclusion with certainty regarding the other Gigantopithecus.

the legend may not be a Gigantopithecus blacki anyway.

I had issues with the narrow jaw myself. Theres no way that jaw would be the same as the patterson creature

On a side note, many juvinille sightings have indicated the animals running on all 4's

Same genus, same mode of transportation. All giganto's are obligate quadrupeds.

G.blacki jaw btw... same narrowness

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

yep your right it is a little narrow for my liking.

wish we had more fossils to better inform ous of Gigantopithecus for there own sake. Worry about the BF connection later if there is/was one

 

[painted wolf]

yep your right it is a little narrow for my liking.

wish we had more fossils to better inform ous of Gigantopithecus for there own sake. Worry about the BF connection later if there is/was one

I'd love more material. We have plenty of teeth and jaws, but more from the rest of the skeleton would be nice.

I'll tell you another interesting thing that the jaw tells us... the face was not flat like in humans... but jutted out like in apes. Another place where it is totally unlike bigfoot.

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

but jutted out like in apes

The jaw definatly shows that, I never put it together like that until now.

I would have to think "IF" the patterson film was real that BF would have a more rounded jaw up front and spread much more towards the rear.

It took us allot of time to find all the human species, if there are three known species there may be more out there with a different genus. We barely know anything about giganto's.

[stretching i know]

 

[painted wolf]

The jaw definatly shows that, I never put it together like that until now.

I would have to think "IF" the patterson film was real that BF would have a more rounded jaw up front and spread much more towards the rear.

It took us allot of time to find all the human species, if there are three known species there may be more out there with a different genus. We barely know anything about giganto's.

[stretching i know]

If the Patterson footage is genuine, then it's an extremely human creature.
Right down to the shape of the feet... More so than Australopithicines, which is odd given they don't have an arch. Even Australopithicines have an arch.

wa:do