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Bill Cosby.....You Know You Wanna Discuss It.

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
What Evans is advocating has been the standard(approximately) nearly everywhere for nearly all of history. There isn't anything particularly "medieval" about it. Most places it is currently the norm. Here in western places it was the norm until the 20th century. We westerners started emphasizing personal freedom and risk taking a few decades ago. Most people, most places, for most of history, emphasized propriety and security and still do...........................
Tom

Ah ha......... so young (any) people being told by, for instance, female rights campaigners, that they should not have to reduce their freedom by taking common-sense precautions against rape could actually be a most irresponsible attitude, lulling victims into the hands of the rapists.... ? Wicked, even...?

Think of that. Let's play with that.....
'You actually lock your car up and take its keys with you? Wrong! In our free society you should not have to do that.!!! Freedom for motorists! Yay!!!! Car thieves should be caught and blinded so that they cannot steal cars... then we motorists could be more free within a society which protects our rights to freedom from risks. etc etc etc?

Oh..... the analogies race over the skyline....... very good.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I am amazed that Cosby is out walk'n around, a free man. I know, I know, he hasn't been tried. But it's the fact that he's evaded prosecution is amazing. I hope the publicity makes everyone wary, so that there are no new victims.

Yeah....... some pages back I got the idea that the USA has a time limit for trying and convicting crimes, past which a crim is 'Scot-Free'. (See? Them friggin' Scots again..... barbarians all.)

In Britistan we don't have any time limitation for criminal offences, only for civil issues, which is why/how we have jailed some notable figures for crimes in the 60s and 70s.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It isn't just that your heated rhetoric is unhelpful. You're also demonstrably wrong.

What Evans is advocating has been the standard(approximately) nearly everywhere for nearly all of history. There isn't anything particularly "medieval" about it. Most places it is currently the norm. Here in western places it was the norm until the 20th century. We westerners started emphasizing personal freedom and risk taking a few decades ago. Most people, most places, for most of history, emphasized propriety and security and still do.
Unsurprisingly, one of the outcomes of modern western prioritizing is an upswing in irresponsible sexual behavior, including rape. Whether the downside outweighs the upside is a matter of personal opinion. But is not at all unpredictable. There is a reason that interaction between men and women is restricted most places. It is to prevent the sort of problems being discussed in this thread.

Extremely conservative countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan have extremely high sexual harassment rates despite the fact that they heavily practice gender segregation and force women to cover most (if not all) of their bodies. I think it is evidently inaccurate to suggest that restricting interaction between men and women leads to reduced rape and sexual harassment rates. Actually, in countries like Afghanistan where reporting rape can lead to honor killings, a lot of rape cases go unreported and therefore some people end up believing that rape happens less frequently than is actually the case. Not only are restrictive sexual "values" something that the civilized world started to move past since medieval times, but they are also demonstrably harmful in that they can lead to things like unreported sexual harassment and assault.

I don't know if you've ever been to Saudi Arabia, but to use it as an example, sexual harassment is extremely common there despite the fact that women aren't even allowed to go out without wearing the abaya. Even female mannequins inside shopping malls aren't displayed without being clothed (yes, it is that strict). Furthermore, gender segregation is practiced to the point where there are some female-only malls to prevent men and women from being together in the same place. You know what happens frequently in malls and other crowded areas there? Men just wait for women outside the buildings and then sexually harass them verbally.

I think one of the biggest myths about sexual harassment is that sexual freedom and lack of gender segregation increase it. It seems to me that anyone who says that has either never been to a country like Afghanistan/Saudi Arabia or just hasn't sufficiently examined statistics concerning rape and sexual harassment in conservative cultures.

I do not share the opinion that we can "educate" our way out of a problem that is a result of instincts as deeply ingrained in humans as the sex drive and mating dance. It would be nice if we could, but I don't see it happening any time in the foreseeable future. Putting up with rape and other forms of sexually irresponsible behavior or putting up with social restrictions look like the choices to me.

Tom

Rape is not a result of sex drive. That's another common rape myth, and a particularly destructive one at that. By saying that rape is the result of "instincts deeply ingrained in humans," you basically seem to be saying that all people have some inclination to rape that they may act on if they have sexual freedom.

Also, rape isn't really a "sexual" behavior; it's a criminal behavior that results from a desire to exert power over others against their will and utter lack of respect for other people's boundaries. Sex drive doesn't really have anything to do with it, at least not if you consider the evidence that is currently available regarding the common mentalities and motivations of rapists. But we have been over all of this in different threads and the discussion only seemed to go in circles, so I'm not sure anything will change if we do that here as well.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Rape is not a result of sex drive. That's another common rape myth, and a particularly destructive one at that.
It is a popular myth that sex drive is unrelated to rape. Sex drive is particularly involved in date rape situations wherein the perp isn't cognizant of (or consciously ignores) lack of consent. Sure, sure, for some perps use sex not for enjoying the act per se, but solely as a means to degrade & abuse the victim.
Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Within this article, we find....
Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In one study, male rapists evaluated with penile plethysmography demonstrated more arousal to forced sex and less discrimination between forced and consensual sex than non-rapist control subjects, though both groups responded more strongly to consensual sex scenarios.[17]
 
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Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
It is a popular myth that sex drive is unrelated to rape. Sex drive is particularly involved in date rape situations wherein the perp isn't cognizant of (or consciously ignores) lack of consent. Sure, sure, for some perps use sex not for enjoying the act per se, but solely as a means to degrade & abuse the victim.
Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Withing this article, we find....
Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I seem to recall saying the same things in a thread (which you no doubt recall), it did not go down to well. Yet you have ''likes''. Hmmm..... what is one to make of that. Perhaps I should buy a kilt and a tractor.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
What then? Have we run out of stones to throw at one another, or are we collecting them up for round two... perhaps we have forgotten what the thread is about by now anyway. It appears we are all shouted out. I wonder what the result was.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Perhaps I should buy a kilt and a tractor.
My thoughts often go over poorly. It seems that we both need more than a kilt'n a tractor to gain favor here. Those people (you know'm....the ones with the trite slogans) have called me a misogyinstic victim blame'n rape apologist for urging risk reduction.
Mayhaps I should swap out me kilt for a skirt, eh?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
My thoughts often go over poorly. It seems that we both need more than a kilt'n a tractor to gain favor here. Those people (you know'm....the ones with the trite slogans) have called me a misogyinstic rape apologist for urging risk reduction.
You too? I am surprised.
On my screen, it shows likes for the post I quoted... but it also shows them for this one. Strange. People must be readin quick. Something is a miss me thinks. Perhaps there was no likes on that post then
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What then? Have we run out of stones to throw at one another, or are we collecting them up for round two... perhaps we have forgotten what the thread is about by now anyway. It appears we are all shouted out. I wonder what the result was.
I'd say there is an uneasy but improved finding of common ground.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Rape is not a result of sex drive. That's another common rape myth, and a particularly destructive one at that.

Where do you get this stuff from?
Asexual man rapes woman ......... !
He told the judge 'I didn't want the sex yer 'onor, I just fancied dominating somebody.'

Oh ...... really......
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I seem to recall saying the same things in a thread (which you no doubt recall), it did not go down to well. Yet you have ''likes''. Hmmm..... what is one to make of that. Perhaps I should buy a kilt and a tractor.
LOL. His likes are not real. But real funny for sure! Or maybe he got a real like. Once in a while I give the man a like to lift his depressed spirit. :D
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
My thoughts often go over poorly. It seems that we both need more than a kilt'n a tractor to gain favor here. Those people (you know'm....the ones with the trite slogans) have called me a misogyinstic victim blame'n rape apologist for urging risk reduction.
Mayhaps I should swap out me kilt for a skirt, eh?
Wot! ?? :eek:
Do you mean to tell me that you have been promoting risk-reduction and crime-prevention? That has to be the most misogynistic and bigoted theme on RF this afternoon, Sir!

But I like it. I like 'risk-reduction' in any area of human life or endeavour.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
It is a popular myth that sex drive is unrelated to rape. Sex drive is particularly involved in date rape situations wherein the perp isn't cognizant of (or consciously ignores) lack of consent. Sure, sure, for some perps use sex not for enjoying the act per se, but solely as a means to degrade & abuse the victim.
Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Within this article, we find....
Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Primary drive to rape is control and power in a violent manner.

The sexual drive is ancillary.

I've said this all along. I prefer to place more importance in the primary drive and less importance in the sexual drive.
 
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