Bin Laden Hero or villain?

[Sunstone]

Is it due to Muslims becoming enlightened by democracy and secular government or is it due to fear of the vast non-Muslim majority that we don't hear these hate filled speeches about the West in western countries?

I think you could hear plenty of hate-filled speeches about the West in Western and Central European countries. But not so much in America. If so, why do you suppose that is?

 

[Bismillah]

On the other hand, the sentiment about the West being the epitomy of evil seems to be unanimous where Muslims hold a majority.

No, let me correct that most Muslims don't care about the West, they care about Imperialist American foreign policies and often their British lackies.

Is it due to Muslims becoming enlightened by democracy

This degrading and condescending venom is noted, praise be to God the standard for enlightenment is not measured by your intellectual faculties.

is it due to fear of the vast non-Muslim majority that we don't hear these hate filled speeches about the West in western countries?

Done with your fear mongering drivel?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Done with your fear mongering drivel?

My genuine concern is that there are anti-west Koran based doctrines being taught in mosques all over the world including the West. I haven't made a judgement on the issue yet but I'm highly suspicious and this is the best response you can come up with? You also forgot to mention Israel is a key factor in Islamic/American relations.

 

[Bismillah]

My genuine concern is that there are anti-west Koran based doctrines being taught in mosques all over the world including the West.

My general concern is that there is American troops stationed throughout Muslim countries and rhetoric for an aggressive war with Iran is increasing. My concern trumps your paranoia.

 

[dust1n]

I keep seeing all of these videos of lightning strike:

[youtube]x22DThzmJDg[/youtube]
Lightning Near Miss - YouTube

This generally concerns me as I am four times more likely to die from lightning than I am an attacking Muslim. I believe that there are anti-ground doctrines being taught up in the sky, forcing ionized water molecules to stike people down dead in an instant!

Yes, obsessing about a bogey man is quite sad.

I wonder if you will ever realize how terribly arrogant it is to say something along the lines of, "Is it due to Muslims becoming enlightened by democracy and secular government."

 

[outhouse]

I am not so much interested in support for terrorism i believe thats low but what i am interested in is whether he was thought of as a mujahideen or a criminal ? was it and indeed, is it ,a noble endeavor with Alqueda fighting the Imperial aspirations of the US and its Allies along with the zionist entity, or is it a misguided adventure that culminates in criminality? in short are Alqueda operatives people doing jihad , criminals, misled or what?

it depends who you ask.

if they hate america, he was admired

 

[F0uad]

Well i think many Muslims do not actually endorses his action but the Symbol that he fought against foreign invaders: Russians and the West. He was a educated but a simple man who believed in uniting the Islamic world what always wins some kind of prestige.

I think hes symbolic picture ''Fighting foreign invaders'' is something that can be called Heroic. We have to be realistic who would dare to fight so many Countries at the same time with that kind of might and allies to protect hes home-land and people. As for 9/11 it was condemned by the whole Islamic world unified yet when we see Muslims dying by much larger portions there is totally no condemnation coming from the west. I think Bin-Laden is more heroic then any American president in the last 100 years.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Well i think many Muslims do not actually endorses his action but the Symbol that he fought against foreign invaders: Russians and the West. He was a educated but a simple man who believed in uniting the Islamic world what always wins some kind of prestige.

I think hes symbolic picture ''Fighting foreign invaders'' is something that can be called Heroic. We have to be realistic who would dare to fight so many Countries at the same time with that kind of might and allies to protect hes home-land and people. As for 9/11 it was condemned by the whole Islamic world unified yet when we see Muslims dying by much larger portions there is totally no condemnation coming from the west. I think Bin-Laden is more heroic then any American president in the last 100 years.

Would you say that this is the general sentiment of your countrymen regarding Bin Ladin?

 

[Straw Dog]

Well i think many Muslims do not actually endorses his action but the Symbol that he fought against foreign invaders: Russians and the West. He was a educated but a simple man who believed in uniting the Islamic world what always wins some kind of prestige.

I imagine, from his POV, he was the good guy fighting against the oppressors. Having said that, I still believe he was deluded. Not that I'm siding with the "oppressors" mind you, as they are almost equally deluded in their absolutism.

I think hes symbolic picture ''Fighting foreign invaders'' is something that can be called Heroic. We have to be realistic who would dare to fight so many Countries at the same time with that kind of might and allies to protect hes home-land and people. As for 9/11 it was condemned by the whole Islamic world unified yet when we see Muslims dying by much larger portions there is totally no condemnation coming from the west. I think Bin-Laden is more heroic then any American president in the last 100 years.

There is condemnation coming from the west, but we are a minority which the press doesn't give a **** about. We would have much more spiritual power if we had turned the other cheek to 9/11. Just imagine it! They attack us, we're shocked, we're in denial, next we grieve heavily, but then we decide not to seek revenge because we realize that the "enemy" was within, relatively, the same delusion. So we would say, "Although you wish to harm us, we do not wish to harm you because we realize the relative nature of human interactions." Of course, if we had this enlightened view then Western culture wouldn't have created so many enemies to begin with. I believe that Bin-Laden was just as delusional as most of the American presidents for the past 100 years, and as deluded as most of us are within the so-called "present". Is it time to wake up?

 

[Reverend Rick]

It's the shared religion that concerns me. The Muslims in the Middle East hate us. They constantly talk about how the United States and Israel are waging war on Islam and babble about how they're the victims of 21st century crusades. Why should I believe the Muslims in America feel any differently if this is a religious beef more than it is a political one for them.

King, try following your own logic here. WHY ON EARTH WOULD A MUSLIM COME TO AMERICA IF THEY THOUGHT LIKE YOU THINK THEY DO ???

Do you even think these things through?

I'm really trying to wrap my head around your paranoid logic.

Try putting yourself in their shoes for just a minute brother king.

Say I am a Saudi who does not approve of Western influence in my country and believe America to be the "Great Satan".

Why on earth if I hated Americans would I even consider living in the U.S.A. ?

TWO BILLION MUSLIMS, THAT'S ONE LARGE BRUSH YOUR HOLDING KING!

 

[Reverend Rick]

I just love these all inclusive posts here at RF. ALL Muslims, ALL Christians and the like.

In this thread we have established that while the Saudi's did invite the U.S.A. into their country, many people disagreed with this invite. Imagine that!

Saying all Muslims think alike sounds sort of racist to me.

Imagine anyone thinking all Americans support every war effort or GWB or BHO.

How ignorant would that be?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

King, try following your own logic here. WHY ON EARTH WOULD A MUSLIM COME TO AMERICA IF THEY THOUGHT LIKE YOU THINK THEY DO ???

Do you even think these things through?

I'm really trying to wrap my head around your paranoid logic.

Try putting yourself in their shoes for just a minute brother king.

Say I am a Saudi who does not approve of Western influence in my country and believe America to be the "Great Satan".

Why on earth if I hated Americans would I even consider living in the U.S.A. ?

TWO BILLION MUSLIMS, THAT'S ONE LARGE BRUSH YOUR HOLDING KING!

I have little doubt that there are plenty of people who've come to this country in order to profit financially who could care less about it beyond how it affects their bottom line. Also, keep in mind that I'm not a universalist. That being the case, for me there is no comparison between Christianity and other religions.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I have little doubt that there are plenty of people who've come to this country in order to profit financially who could care less about it beyond how it affects their bottom line.

OK, I do see many Muslims with gas stations and motels in this country, but I have to believe that the Saudi economy is better off than we are at this time. Personally, I believe they came here just as our forefathers did to enjoy the religious freedoms we have in this country. I think they see the opportunities and freedoms we enjoy here and I champion their participation in this great land of ours.

I personally know a Pakistani doctor who has been harassed by al qaeda in his mother country. His father-in-law was a pilot in his country and is a patriot but has experienced threats and intimidation. He wants a better life for his grandchildren, but remains in Pakistan. I see the conflict with their family and where they live, but they have no agenda other than to live free and worship as they see fit.

The family wants their grandfather to live with them in the States, but he just visits from time to time. The grandmother lives with this family and is staying.

I think they would rather live in Pakistan but are afraid of the current living conditions.

There is more to this than money brother King.