Birmingham Muslims pull their kids out of LGBT-inclusive lessons

[exchemist]

A primary school in Birmingham is at the centre of a furore surrounding the teaching of lessons designed to teach children about social diversity. This doesn't just cover LGBT but also covers things like ethnicity, religion & different family compositions. Some kids at the school live with one parent, some live with two parents of the same sex etc

The issue started when Fatima Shah, a Muslim parent began objecting to 'No Outsiders'; a series of lessons designed by 'out' teacher Andrew Moffat. No Outsiders reinforces the innate desire of children to be accepting and tolerant. Shah was worried that her kids were too young to be taught about these subjects; claiming that they amount to 'promoting homosexuality' and 'indoctrinating our kids to be gay' and are not 'age appropriate'. One of the other arguments she also put forward is ' children are being told it's OK to be gay yet 98% of children at this school are Muslim. It's a Muslim community'. Roughly 400 parents have barely consulted with Parkfield Community School and have instead signed a petition calling for the lessons to be dropped from the curriculum.

They've also withdrawn circa 600 kids which is approximately 80% of the pupil population in protest.

To make matters worse, Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood, has come out in support of the parents, claiming there is no consultation taking place.

Shabana Mahmood on Twitter

This is actually untrue as a letter published by the school makes clear: they're planning to hold various meetings with parents throughout the next half term - presumably to let parents view the lesson material for themselves. This was the result of a meeting held roughly a week before Mahmood claimed there has been no consultation.

Additionally, Mahmood demands that the pupils' parents' religious beliefs be respected with regard to the curriculum. She is referring to a clause in certain laws passed by the government which grant exemptions from inclusive education on religious grounds; this was essentially added to ensure the Lords Spiritual did not vote down the bill on the basis that Church of England schools would have to host these lessons or ones like them.

The more cynical part of me does wonder if Mahmood's support for the parents stems in part because she is Muslim; but I need to balance this with the fact Mahmood has apparently

This whole situation does beg the following questions:

1. Given that LGBT people exist and some Parkfield kids may even have LGBTs friends/family, what age do these parents think is appropriate for the children to learn they exist;
2. Whose rights should take precedence? The rights of religious parents to ensure their children are not taught contrary to their religious beliefs or the rights of the kids to a balanced education?

Interesting one, actually. My first instinct is to sympathise with the muslim parents. It seems unnecessarily precocious to expose children as young as seven to the complexities of human sexuality. Why not wait until they are more mature? In my generation we were only spoken to about these things when we were in our early teens and starting to feel our own sexual stirrings.

On the other hand, I can see a counterargument, in that it may be that at a young age the children have no hangups about sex, as it is not something they feel involves them much yet, so they may take on board messages about differences - and respecting differences - in a more matter-of-fact way, thereby removing the need for more awkward discussions later on, when they have already started to form self-images with a sexual component to them.

I'd be willing to hear the evidence on this from child psychology. My own son, now 15, is far more open and accepting of homosexuality than I was at his age, though it is quite plain that at school he and the other kids are very keen to telegraph which side of the fence they themselves are on, just as we were. He and they also make a lot of jokes about the PC-speak world of LGBTQXZP.....teasing someone that he self-identifies as a helicopter, etc etc. No one will ever stop bright boys and girls taking the p*** out of po-faced adults lecturing them on what to think. They really hate that.

 

[exchemist]

You find humor in the suffering of others.

Schadenfreude?

 

[Stanyon]

Maybe schools should just stick with reading, writing, and arithmetic.

 

[Flankerl]

You find humor in the suffering of others.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

 

[Woberts]

Guys this is not epic can we please deport them?!?!

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Do Muslims resist that cultural blending, particularly in the UK, and if so, why?

Yes. People who emigrate to the USA generally do so because they want the American way of life. Muslims who come to the UK are generally from Pakistan and Bangladesh and they want the British standard of living. They often come in via arranged marriages. They prefer to live in the same areas and few mix much with people outside their communities.
https://clarionproject.org/uk-muslims-not-integrating-new-report/

 

[Shad]

I wonder what a sociologist would say?

Probably agreement.

I doubt that it's been going on like forever.

Any time a foreign population migrates they bring foreign ideas with them.

Someone probably protested over the correct way to make a spear head.

Doubt it as spear heads beyond the stone age requires skills sets whereas the OP issue in a religious one

 

[Ellen Brown]

Yes. People who emigrate to the USA generally do so because they want the American way of life. Muslims who come to the UK are generally from Pakistan and Bangladesh and they want the British standard of living. They often come in via arranged marriages. They prefer to live in the same areas and few mix much with people outside their communities.
https://clarionproject.org/uk-muslims-not-integrating-new-report/

That is sad. Perhaps the UK might have been better off not letting them in???

 

[Altfish]

At my local SACRE meeting about a week ago this topic came up.
The Hindu representative had great concerns about any LGBT lesson being taught; he kept using the word "promote" - "the lesson was promoting homosexuality" and the likes.
I interupted him and said, "You are using inflamatory language, the lessons are 'promoting' nothing. They are explaining that in 2019 these are some sexual life styles that you might hear about. It was a bit like saying teaching about WW2 was promoting war"

There are a lot of misconceptions, like the 'Christian' parents who pull their kids out of trips to the mosque.

 

[Shad]

That is sad. Perhaps the UK might have been better off not letting them in???

That is what a lot of people argued but they are shot down by leftists and politicians. Both will freak if a Christian complains but they cave when Muslims do the same.

 

[Flankerl]

SACRE meeting

Why does something like this exist?

That's so weird.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Interesting one, actually. My first instinct is to sympathise with the muslim parents. It seems unnecessarily precocious to expose children as young as seven to the complexities of human sexuality.

Yeah, no one's actually doing that. The lessons for seven year olds involve stories along the lines of 'This is Sarah. Sarah has two mummies. Sarah and her mums went to the park and they had a great time.'

The curriculum other characteristics such as ethnicity, religion, different vulnerabilities such as deafness etc. The whole point is to make the kids aware that people are different; and to let the childrens' innate tendency to not be judgemental ******** do the rest of accepting this fact.

Why not wait until they are more mature? In my generation we were only spoken to about these things when we were in our early teens and starting to feel our own sexual stirrings.

The issue of transgender is apparently raised with children at age 11. That's what one of the links I looked at says. I'm pretty sure I provided that one but maybe not...

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Identity politics eating itself. Christians protest but the left would ignore it and continued with the program. When Muslims protested the left caves due to increased chance of dying.

I'm finding it rather hard to disagree. I am rather disturbed by the tendency of the left to throw the LGBT community under the bus when the **** they're being subjected to comes from Muslims.

1. 12-14.

I kind of believe that; but wonder if these people want their kids to learn about LGBT people existing and being normal before the parents have the chance to stuff their skulls with religious indoctrination and the mosques and/or madrassas.

2. The parents have no rights in this matter. Take the kids to a private school. That is their right not 7th century whining.

That's the thing; because of the way the law was worded, they do actually have rights predicated upon using their religious beliefs to pressure the state to not teach children LGBT people exist. It was an exemption put in for the Church of England (but not specifically as that would be religious discrimination). So now Muslims can take advantage of it.

Yay.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Puberty starts usually between age "Puberty is the time in life when a young person starts to become sexually mature. In girls, puberty usually starts around 11 years of age, but it may start as early as 6 or 7 years of age. In boys, puberty begins around 12 years as age, but may start as early as 9 years of age." Wiki.

I can't comment on the LGB part of all this.

The T part is a pot of roiling conflict. Lots of practitioners try to identify GID before Puberty, so they can stop it until the child is older. I think the LGBT faction of the Medical/Psychiatric community has egocentrically misidentified what they thought were GID sufferers, when in fact there were other issues. I am hoping that the faction of that community that is not so energetic about misleading T folk will gain some traction.

 

[SomeRandom]

Interesting one, actually. My first instinct is to sympathise with the muslim parents. It seems unnecessarily precocious to expose children as young as seven to the complexities of human sexuality. Why not wait until they are more mature? In my generation we were only spoken to about these things when we were in our early teens and starting to feel our own sexual stirrings.

On the other hand, I can see a counterargument, in that it may be that at a young age the children have no hangups about sex, as it is not something they feel involves them much yet, so they may take on board messages about differences - and respecting differences - in a more matter-of-fact way, thereby removing the need for more awkward discussions later on, when they have already started to form self-images with a sexual component to them.

I'd be willing to hear the evidence on this from child psychology. My own son, now 15, is far more open and accepting of homosexuality than I was at his age, though it is quite plain that at school he and the other kids are very keen to telegraph which side of the fence they themselves are on, just as we were. He and they also make a lot of jokes about the PC-speak world of LGBTQXZP.....teasing someone that he self-identifies as a helicopter, etc etc. No one will ever stop bright boys and girls taking the p*** out of po-faced adults lecturing them on what to think. They really hate that.

I very much doubt the curriculum aimed at that age group is literally discussing the complexities of human sexuality. I suspect it’s simply a case of “this is what a family looks like.” And then listing the different types of families a child might encounter. Perhaps focusing on getting children to understand that being different to them and what they’re used to is okay.
I could be wrong, though.

But children are a lot more sophisticated than previous generations. This is true of most generations. What our parents learnt in High School was Primary/Elementary material for us.
And with the age of information and even misinformation that we live in, it is important to get a handle on this early. To stop rumours and misinformation before they start.

 

[Skwim]

A primary school in Birmingham is at the centre of a furore surrounding the teaching of lessons designed to teach children about social diversity. This doesn't just cover LGBT but also covers things like ethnicity, religion & different family compositions. Some kids at the school live with one parent, some live with two parents of the same sex etc

The issue started when Fatima Shah, a Muslim parent began objecting to 'No Outsiders'; a series of lessons designed by 'out' teacher Andrew Moffat. No Outsiders reinforces the innate desire of children to be accepting and tolerant. Shah was worried that her kids were too young to be taught about these subjects; claiming that they amount to 'promoting homosexuality' and 'indoctrinating our kids to be gay' and are not 'age appropriate'. One of the other arguments she also put forward is ' children are being told it's OK to be gay yet 98% of children at this school are Muslim. It's a Muslim community'. Roughly 400 parents have barely consulted with Parkfield Community School and have instead signed a petition calling for the lessons to be dropped from the curriculum.

They've also withdrawn circa 600 kids which is approximately 80% of the pupil population in protest.

To make matters worse, Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood, has come out in support of the parents, claiming there is no consultation taking place.

Shabana Mahmood on Twitter

This is actually untrue as a letter published by the school makes clear: they're planning to hold various meetings with parents throughout the next half term - presumably to let parents view the lesson material for themselves. This was the result of a meeting held roughly a week before Mahmood claimed there has been no consultation.

Additionally, Mahmood demands that the pupils' parents' religious beliefs be respected with regard to the curriculum. She is referring to a clause in certain laws passed by the government which grant exemptions from inclusive education on religious grounds; this was essentially added to ensure the Lords Spiritual did not vote down the bill on the basis that Church of England schools would have to host these lessons or ones like them.

The more cynical part of me does wonder if Mahmood's support for the parents stems in part because she is Muslim; but I need to balance this with the fact Mahmood has apparently

This whole situation does beg the following questions:

1. Given that LGBT people exist and some Parkfield kids may even have LGBTs friends/family, what age do these parents think is appropriate for the children to learn they exist;
2. Whose rights should take precedence? The rights of religious parents to ensure their children are not taught contrary to their religious beliefs or the rights of the kids to a balanced education?

. ​

 

[Altfish]

Why does something like this exist?

That's so weird.

If I'm honest, I'm not sure, but I'm on our local one. It is voluntary, we don't get paid even expenses.

 

[exchemist]

Yeah, no one's actually doing that. The lessons for seven year olds involve stories along the lines of 'This is Sarah. Sarah has two mummies. Sarah and her mums went to the park and they had a great time.'

The curriculum other characteristics such as ethnicity, religion, different vulnerabilities such as deafness etc. The whole point is to make the kids aware that people are different; and to let the childrens' innate tendency to not be judgemental ******** do the rest of accepting this fact.




The issue of transgender is apparently raised with children at age 11. That's what one of the links I looked at says. I'm pretty sure I provided that one but maybe not...

Yes fair comment. The original link was frustratingly silent on the actual ages at which each of these topics is to be introduced.

 

[exchemist]

I very much doubt the curriculum aimed at that age group is literally discussing the complexities of human sexuality. I suspect it’s simply a case of “this is what a family looks like.” And then listing the different types of families a child might encounter. Perhaps focusing on getting children to understand that being different to them and what they’re used to is okay.
I could be wrong, though.

But children are a lot more sophisticated than previous generations. This is true of most generations. What our parents learnt in High School was Primary/Elementary material for us.
And with the age of information and even misinformation that we live in, it is important to get a handle on this early. To stop rumours and misinformation before they start.

Good point about the internet exposing children far earlier to all this stuff, whether parents like it or not, in which case better to guide them soundly from the start than allow wrong-headed or unhealthy ideas to develop.

But I do see why conservatively minded parents could be troubled by it.

 

[Shad]

I'm finding it rather hard to disagree. I am rather disturbed by the tendency of the left to throw the LGBT community under the bus when the **** they're being subjected to comes from Muslims.

Muslim are higher on the oppression Olympics and become violent when told "No".

I kind of believe that; but wonder if these people want their kids to learn about LGBT people existing and being normal before the parents have the chance to stuff their skulls with religious indoctrination and the mosques and/or madrassas.

Well the class would probably conflict with religious ideas that it is a choice rather than not. If people can not help being gay that changes how they are treated.

That's the thing; because of the way the law was worded, they do actually have rights predicated upon using their religious beliefs to pressure the state to not teach children LGBT people exist. It was an exemption put in for the Church of England (but not specifically as that would be religious discrimination). So now Muslims can take advantage of it.

The UK has been undermine rights for decades. Now the UK decides those rights are applicable to one group, Muslims, but not Christians when they complained.