BLM and WLM

[Revoltingest]

WRONG, Blacks are 3 times as likely to be killed by Police as whites, get your facts straight

You're both correct, if I infer the statements accordingly.
(There is imprecision in both.)
Cops are more likely to shoot & kill someone who is white.
But being black poses an individual risk several times
greater than being white. Relative population size is a
factor here.
Ref, a Snopes piece...
Do Police Kill More White People Than Black People?

 

[Terry Sampson]

In moments when the narrative teeter-totter gets hung up longer on one side than the other, I find it useful to remember an event or two from the past, like this one from March 7, 1965, when I was 17 years old.

 

[Windwalker]

I've come to the conclusion that it isn't a race problem but more of a heart problem that is being expressed in so many violent ways. Anger, hatred, unresolved issues.

Whether white on black
Black on white
Black on Black
White on White

or any other variation... something is systemically wrong

No Ken. I think you are skirting around the issue here, especially since you cited this right-wing rhetoric about "black on black" crime, and tried to make all of this equal to each other. You, this, misses the real point. The real point is being obfuscated here.

In another post recently, where someone said "All lives mattered", as an attempt to distract from "black lives matters" as a movement. This was my response to them:

Do you not understand why they use the slogan "Black Lives Matter"? It is not that "all lives" don't matter. It is because our system of government and its laws, act as if black lives do NOT matter. It's drawing attention to that. Of course, all lives matter, but because we act as if black lives do not matter, that they are telling us ignorant folk, they do.

They are asking for all of us, including you, to notice and do something about it. They are after all, just us with a different skin color which means nothing as a human being.
​

What you are failing to recognize and appreciate the way it needs to be, is that we are talking about systemic racism. Not violence in general. Systemic racism is institutionalized violence against people of color in staggeringly disproportionate numbers. Not just targeted violence, but discrimination, economic opportunities, housing opportunities, educational opportunities, and all of that.

This is not just an "all lives" problem. It is specifically targeted against black people as a whole.

Yes, we have a general human problem, and I agree. But that general human problem victimizes blacks disportionality beyond other groups. That is the point of this. And that is what everyone is trying to draw attention to.

Does this hopefully help you to understand this better now?

 

[Stevicus]

Whether white on black
Black on white
Black on Black
White on White

or any other variation... something is systemically wrong

Maybe there is a heart problem in the country - or maybe these incidents are further symptoms of the breakdown of civility and the incompetence of law enforcement.

As far as anything "systemic" going on, that's hard to tell. It seems that, given the tone and rhetoric of the media these days, it appears that there are those who want to set up the country for some kind of civil war. The battle lines are being drawn, and people are being assigned to their particular factions, no matter if they want to be or not.

Nobody wants to listen to reason anymore. No one is calling for peace or reconciliation. This video was clearly designed to incite and anger people, but people have the choice to opt out of this insanity.

It seems more important for different factions to try to force some agenda down people's throats than it is to actually address these issues and find solutions. It's a bit difficult to address problems if we, as a society, can't even figure out and agree on how we're supposed to even talk about the problems. It would seem that this problem would need to be resolved first before anything else can even be addressed.

 

[Revoltingest]

In moments when the narrative teeter-totter gets hung up longer on one side than the other, I find it useful to remember an event or two from the past, like this one from March 7, 1965, when I was 17 years old.

You're old !!

 

[Terry Sampson]

You're old !!

And fading quicker than I like.

 

[Revoltingest]

And fading quicker than I like.

Think healthy thoughts.

 

[Polymath257]

The battle lines are being drawn,

Nobody's right
When everybody's wrong.

 

[Windwalker]

No, my point is that not only does BLM but that all lives are at stake here. We already have seen the injustice on black people but we can't just focus on one group at the expense off all groups.

No. All lives do not matter. That is what systemic racism is telling us, in the way it treats blacks specifically. It says that black lives do not matter. If you believe all lives matter, then you need to get out there and try to help change a system (which is where systemic comes from - systems), which dispositionally places black lives at greater risk than white lives.

If you care about justice, then you should join in support of BLM to defend your black brothers and sisters and help then in their systemically disadvantaged situation here in the states. Be true to your spiritual calling of love, not Fox news' calling of divisiveness.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, something is systemically wrong. Unfortunately, many white people seem to want to locate that systemic problem everywhere but the obvious.

The race gap

It would seem to me that white are not aware but actively trying to do fomenting like bringing more accountability. My question is why to do relegate it to just white people

 

[Kenny]

No Ken. I think you are skirting around the issue here, especially since you cited this right-wing rhetoric about "black on black" crime, and tried to make all of this equal to each other. You, this, misses the real point. The real point is being obfuscated here.

In another post recently, where someone said "All lives mattered", as an attempt to distract from "black lives matters" as a movement. This was my response to them:

Do you not understand why they use the slogan "Black Lives Matter"? It is not that "all lives" don't matter. It is because our system of government and its laws, act as if black lives do NOT matter. It's drawing attention to that. Of course, all lives matter, but because we act as if black lives do not matter, that they are telling us ignorant folk, they do.

They are asking for all of us, including you, to notice and do something about it. They are after all, just us with a different skin color which means nothing as a human being.
​

What you are failing to recognize and appreciate the way it needs to be, is that we are talking about systemic racism. Not violence in general. Systemic racism is institutionalized violence against people of color in staggeringly disproportionate numbers. Not just targeted violence, but discrimination, economic opportunities, housing opportunities, educational opportunities, and all of that.

This is not just an "all lives" problem. It is specifically targeted against black people as a whole.

Yes, we have a general human problem, and I agree. But that general human problem victimizes blacks disportionality beyond other groups. That is the point of this. And that is what everyone is trying to draw attention to.

Does this hopefully help you to understand this better now?

I agree that Black Lives Matter and it need to be addressed. Not trying to obfuscate the issue. The unfortunate byproduct of BLM is that it was translated into cops don't matter.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe there is a heart problem in the country - or maybe these incidents are further symptoms of the breakdown of civility and the incompetence of law enforcement.

As far as anything "systemic" going on, that's hard to tell. It seems that, given the tone and rhetoric of the media these days, it appears that there are those who want to set up the country for some kind of civil war. The battle lines are being drawn, and people are being assigned to their particular factions, no matter if they want to be or not.

Nobody wants to listen to reason anymore. No one is calling for peace or reconciliation. This video was clearly designed to incite and anger people, but people have the choice to opt out of this insanity.

It seems more important for different factions to try to force some agenda down people's throats than it is to actually address these issues and find solutions. It's a bit difficult to address problems if we, as a society, can't even figure out and agree on how we're supposed to even talk about the problems. It would seem that this problem would need to be resolved first before anything else can even be addressed.

I agree...

I found this post to really deals with the reality that faction making is wrong and dialogue needs to be reinserted:

how-to-disagree-productively.235535

 

[Kenny]

No. All lives do not matter. That is what systemic racism is telling us, in the way it treats blacks specifically. It says that black lives do not matter. If you believe all lives matter, then you need to get out there and try to help change a system (which is where systemic comes from - systems), which dispositionally places black lives at greater risk than white lives.

If you care about justice, then you should join in support of BLM to defend your black brothers and sisters and help then in their systemically disadvantaged situation here in the states. Be true to your spiritual calling of love, not Fox news' calling of divisiveness.

My interaction with my black (red blooded) brothers is quite healthy. Our churches interact and we co-op many efforts. thank you for asking.

Even parti participated in a MLK rally.

 

[Windwalker]

I agree that Black Lives Matter and it need to be addressed. Not trying to obfuscate the issue. The unfortunate byproduct of BLM is that it was translated into cops don't matter.

You are obfuscating this again. No one has said cop lives, or anyone else's live do not matter. What you need to do is stop trying to distract from the fact that systemic racism is telling us that black lives do NOT matter. When you say "cop lives matter", you are in essence spitting in the face of the cry that says, "We DO matter, Ken".

Please wake up.

 

[Windwalker]

My interaction with my black (red blooded) brothers is quite healthy. Our churches interact and we co-op many efforts. thank you for asking.

Do you support BLM as a movement against systemic racism against blacks? Do you fight alongside of them to protect them from disproportionality being targeted by law enforcement and the criminal justice system, against the discrimination in housing, education, employment, etc?

Most important question. Do you recognize that they are not only disadvantaged by being black, but that they are disproportionality victims of systemic racism, that is systemic in the sense it is built into the systems of society and government to disadvantage them. Do you recognize that as a fact, or are you in denial of that? Please answer that directly.

Edit to add. I just noticed you said "our churches interact". How many blacks are members within your church body itself? I noticed you have your church here, and their church there. Divided. Why is that? Why are there black churches and white churches? What brought that division about? Can you pinpoint that?

 

[Kenny]

You are obfuscating this again. No one has said cop lives, or anyone else's live do not matter. What you need to do is stop trying to distract from the fact that systemic racism is telling us that black lives do NOT matter. When you say "cop lives matter", you are in essence spitting in the face of the cry that says, "We DO matter, Ken".

Please wake up.

What you are saying and what is being displayed are two totally different things. I'm sure you are not blind to the anti-cop sentiment that is permeating society today.

 

[Windwalker]

What you are saying and what is being displayed are two totally different things. I'm sure you are not blind to the anti-cop sentiment that is permeating society today.

Very few are strictly anti-cop, by virtue of them simply being a police officer (unlike being racist which is based on them simply being a black person). We salute cops, when they do their jobs correctly for all of us, blacks and white. We are however, anti-systemic racism within the police forces, and the militarization of the police. This is a top-down problem.

I'm pro good-cop, and anti racist-cop. You should be too.

 

[Left Coast]

Another view....
Many white & black people want to see the problems of policing
as solely about racial discrimination. They ignore other & larger
problems because the focus de jour is BLM.
How to deal with BLM, ALM, WLM, & even MLM?
Recognize that they all have common goals, & that different
perspectives shouldn't create hostility. Better & safer policing
for all is the great need.

Both things can be true. We need better/safer policing in general, and we also need to be aware of the undeniably systemically racist conditions that exist both in policing and many other elements of our society, as the link I shared shows.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes, people of any race can commit acts of racism and/or violence, and yes, people of any race can be victims of racism and/or violence.Of course this is wrong, but why would it warrant ignoring how historically disproportionate it as been?

Also, some of us have had it easier due to hand-me-downs from our ancestors, and our ancestors had it easier due to prop-me-ups from those they subjugated and exploited.

 

[Revoltingest]

Both things can be true. We need better/safer policing in general, and we also need to be aware of the undeniably systemically racist conditions that exist both in policing and many other elements of our society, as the link I shared shows.

Dang it!
I was all set to disagree, but I can't find anything.