Bob the atheist?

[Quintessence]

@Kuzcotopia - much of what you say applies to any religious minority. There are some thoughts I could perhaps contribute, but this doesn't seem the thread for it. I suppose to share one thought, I find practicing fascination with everything around you - such that you learn to love and appreciate stories that are not your own - is helpful. Usually if you get your own ego out of the way and just listen to other people's stories, they probably won't even know or notice that you don't follow their mythos... lol.

 

[Willamena]

then why are you presenting god concepts instead of the concept of god?

Explain to me what you see as the difference between a god concept and a concept of god.

Edit: i.e. are we in agreeance that they are two ways of saying the same thing.

 

[Thief]

Yeah exactly. That's my point? So are atheists comparable to babies or philosophical thinkers?

that's quite a span there....
people not yet able to consider the discussion all the way to people who can

that would be every human
as atheist

 

[McBell]

Explain to me what you see as the difference between a god concept and a concept of god.

Edit: i.e. are we in agreeance that they are two ways of saying the same thing.

I have no idea what the difference is.
Thus the reason I asked for 1137 to present.

One wonders why he hasn't.

 

[Willamena]

I have no idea what the difference is.
Thus the reason I asked for 1137 to present.

One wonders why he hasn't.

It's two ways of saying the same thing.

To explain what "a sheep" is (the concept of sheep, a generalization) I might point you at a picture of actual sheep in a field (particulars). They're certainly not all the sheep that there are, but they can closely demonstrate the concept.

Gods don't have particulars in a "field" apart from the images put forth by various denominations of religious beliefs. Those images can be generalized into categories. Those are the "concepts of god" discussed in the article that I linked. "The concept of god" is a generalization of those.

 

[LuisDantas]

that's quite a span there....
people not yet able to consider the discussion all the way to people who can

that would be every human
as atheist

So?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What gods? (rhetorical question) I can make no judgements about things I'm not acquainted with. That I have no opportunity to reject the gods that you allege says nothing about atheism. Atheism is me not believing in God or gods.

To apply the concept to a particular, you have to acknowledge the particular. We each know only as much of the world as we know, and to require us to have more information than that is an absurdity. Similarly, to require we believe in more than that in order to be a proper atheist is an absurdity: the sum of our information is all the propositions about the world that we hold. Belief is the investment in the truth of those propositions--not other propositions that others may have, and not imagined propositions that may or may not be.


I cannot disbelieve where, for me, there is no subject of disbelief. It's not possible.

Solipsism might work for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's two ways of saying the same thing.

To explain what "a sheep" is (the concept of sheep, a generalization) I might point you at a picture of actual sheep in a field (particulars). They're certainly not all the sheep that there are, but they can closely demonstrate the concept.

Gods don't have particulars in a "field" apart from the images put forth by various denominations of religious beliefs. Those images can be generalized into categories. Those are the "concepts of god" discussed in the article that I linked. "The concept of god" is a generalization of those.

What categories? Please be specific.

Please also ensure that the categories aren't so broad that they include angels, demons, ghosts, or anything else definitively excluded from the definition of "god"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You don't need to know all the arguments, you need to understand the concepts involved.

And you do? Please describe the concept of "god."

 

[Willamena]

Solipsism might work for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Solipsism has never worked for me.

 

[1137]

And you do? Please describe the concept of "god."

Nah, I'm tired of wasting time where there's nothing to be learned. I'm happy to treat you as the ignorant baby atheists wish to be treated like.

 

[Willamena]

What categories? Please be specific.

The categories outlined in the article include:
-) God is maximally great;
-) God is a maximally great person;
-) God is a maximally great person that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent (perfect);
-) God is petfect and all good;
-) God is good, but not ultimately, because it is consciousness that construes perfection;
-) God is ultimately perfect but limited in power...

But you could know this if you glanced at the article.

Please also ensure that the categories aren't so broad that they include angels, demons, ghosts, or anything else definitively excluded from the definition of "god"

I don't see why it should include anything but the alleged "god."

 

[McBell]

Nah, I'm tired of wasting time where there's nothing to be learned. I'm happy to treat you as the ignorant baby atheists wish to be treated like.

Well, you did not disappoint.
I kinda figured you were talking out your backside when you disappeared after being asked to describe the difference.

 

[Jumi]

I'd say no, for the same rationale that if Bob had never heard any materialist/ naturalist/ atheist theory for our existence - that wouldn't make him a theist by default either.

Like we've discussed before you don't actually need a theory for existence to be an atheist.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

you need to understand the word.....theist....
and then having made a choice not to believe.....THEN you apply the label of non-belief

But like Bob, somebody might never have been introduced to the word theist, so there is no choice, just an absence of belief.

It's like Santa Claus, in some cultures children will not be told he exists, and will therefore not hold a belief in him.

 

[Willamena]

But like Bob, somebody might never have been introduced to the word theist, so there is no choice, just an absence of belief.

It's like Santa Claus, in some cultures children will not be told he exists, and will therefore not hold a belief in him.

If you've never heard of him, you can't believe in him. There's nothing to believe in. Similarly, you can't disbelieve in nothing.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If you've never heard of him, you can't believe in him. There's nothing to believe in. Similarly, you can't disbelieve in nothing.

Sure, absence of belief v. disbelief. I view atheism as a spectrum which includes both.

 

[Willamena]

Sure, absence of belief v. disbelief. I view atheism as a spectrum which includes both.

Cool.

So where do you stand on the vernacular that allows that an absence of belief means disbelief?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So where do you stand on the vernacular that allows that an absence of belief means disbelief?

Atheist = not-theist = absence of belief or disbelief.

 

[Willamena]

Atheist = not-theist = absence of belief or disbelief.

Okay, then.