Bob the atheist?

[ArtieE]

Hence the contradiction. To me, lacks belief/without belief does not describe ignorance of god.

Isn't a person who's ignorant of god also without belief in said god?

 

[Willamena]

So you mean that if somebody has no knowledge of God, then the theist/atheist dichotomy is inapplicable?

Yes.

If we were discussing a third party, and noted that he lacks belief in god, that would mean he's at least heard of god and acknowledged the concept. He may have rejected it, he may have dismissed it, he may have not given it any consideration (all of which are types of atheism), but he's not ignorant of it.

 

[ArtieE]

To me, atheism is athe-ism, not a-theism. That you don't recognize the contradiction doesn't mean it's not there.

Stop changing the subject. We're talking about theists and atheists. I repeat: "Both are not theists. There's nothing contradictory about saying they are both not theists."

 

[Willamena]

Isn't a person who's ignorant of god also without belief in said god?

Only in a strictly and grossly ontological context. Athe-ism is an epistemological stance.

 

[Willamena]

Stop changing the subject. We're talking about theists and atheists. I repeat: "Both are not theists. There's nothing contradictory about saying they are both not theists."

I've not changed the subject. I'm talking about atheists still. Atheism doesn't mean "not theist," it means a person who practices atheism.

 

[ArtieE]

Yes.

If we were discussing a third party, and noted that he lacks belief in god, that would mean he's at least heard of god and acknowledged the concept. He may have rejected it, he may have dismissed it, he may have not given it any consideration (all of which are types of atheism), but he's not ignorant of it.

Of course being ignorant is also one reason why he's without belief in god.

 

[ArtieE]

Only in a strictly and grossly ontological context. Athe-ism is an epistemological stance.

We're not talking about atheISM but about people who are either theists or not. Stop changing the subject.

 

[Augustus]

If a person tells me he's an atheist then I know for sure that he doesn't believe in the existence of gods because that is what characterizes all atheists. But you wouldn't accept him as an atheist unless he also actively believes gods don't exist? American Atheists aren't atheists according to you?

If someone tells me they are an atheist then they are an atheist. They definitely disbelieve in gods.

Your definition is the only one that forces people into a label that they might themselves disagree with.

The prefix a- still negates in the Greek though.

http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=atheist

I am arguing that the modern meaning of "atheism" INCLUDES the original meaning, includes denial and rejection.

I'm not arguing against your definition, just your justification for why it should mean that.

If it means that, it is not because of the letters, but because people want to use it differently.

 

[Willamena]

We're not talking about atheISM but about people who are either theists or not. Stop changing the subject.

I'm talking about atheism, though. You're changing the subject.

 

[Willamena]

To hold that "atheist" means "not a theist" opens the door for sheep to be described as atheists. It's an abuse of the term to take it from a stance to being an ontological image of a person. Atheism is about belief, not a snap-shot of the world.

 

[ArtieE]

I've not changed the subject. I'm talking about atheists still. Atheism doesn't mean "not theist," it means a person who practices atheism.

An atheist isn't a "person who practices atheism" whatever that is it's simply a person who is not a theist. There's no need for him to practice any -isms to be an atheist.

 

[Willamena]

An atheist isn't a "person who practices atheism" whatever that is it's simply a person who is not a theist. There's no need for him to practice any -isms to be an atheist.

Hence we disagree.

 

[ArtieE]

To hold that "atheist" means "not a theist" opens the door for sheep to be described as atheists.

Only to people who wish to appear stupid and pretend they don't understand that we're talking about persons since a theist is defined as a person.

 

[Willamena]

Only to people who wish to appear stupid and pretend they don't understand that we're talking about persons since a theist is defined as a person.

Sheep are people too.

 

[ArtieE]

Sheep are people too.

Sure in the Biblical sense. Or was it the other way around?

 

[ArtieE]

Hence we disagree.

How would I practice my atheism?

 

[Apologes]

Only if you define atheism as "abscence of belief in God". Still though, I find this a lame move as atheism is quite clearly an intellectual position, a personal view. I find the term highly evasive. A non-theist would be a better term in this sense.

 

[Willamena]

How would I practice my atheism?

By not believing in gods.

 

[ArtieE]

Only if you define atheism as "abscence of belief in God". Still though, I find this a lame move as atheism is quite clearly an intellectual position, a personal view. I find the term highly evasive. A non-theist would be a better term in this sense.

"Nontheist is defined as covering a wide range of people, all characterized by lacking belief in any gods, rejecting of belief in gods, or deny the existence of any gods. The definition of nontheist is effectively the same as the definition of atheist — the prefixes "a-" and "non-" mean exactly the same thing. The label nontheist was created and continues to be used in order to avoid the negative baggage the comes with the label atheist due to the bigotry of so many Christians towards atheists.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines non-theist as "A person who is not a theist." This is the same as the broad, general definition of atheist, thus the two labels can be used interchangeably."
http://atheism.about.com/od/Atheist-Dictionary/g/Definition-Nontheist.htm

 

[Willamena]

"Nontheist is defined as covering a wide range of people, all characterized by lacking belief in any gods, rejecting of belief in gods, or deny the existence of any gods. The definition of nontheist is effectively the same as the definition of atheist — the prefixes "a-" and "non-" mean exactly the same thing. The label nontheist was created and continues to be used in order to avoid the negative baggage the comes with the label atheist due to the bigotry of so many Christians towards atheists.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines non-theist as "A person who is not a theist." This is the same as the broad, general definition of atheist, thus the two labels can be used interchangeably."
http://atheism.about.com/od/Atheist-Dictionary/g/Definition-Nontheist.htm

...Unless you read the definition of atheist. Then it's different.