Boycott Hobby Lobby: Trumping Women's Rights

[Nakosis]

The morning after pill is easily obtainable from free clinics or available over the counter for $25 to $50.

So in this case, the religious freedom is not really an inconvenience nor prevents access.

Versus say, denying life saving surgery because of religious belief.

So how is the owner's religion causing any harm? If no real harm is being caused by his religious belief, then what is the problem?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Then I'd either pay for it out of pocket or get another insurance plan. Would you expect me to do?

I agree. It's not like these folks were fired due to it, only that the managers of the business do not want to support something they don't want to survive.

While I do believe in birth control, I do think it is a reasonable topic to get stuck on and complicate because both sides have strong, and usually true reasons. I can totally understand why someone would be against it even though I'm not.

I personally think that Hobby Lobby is the one actually being trumped on rights - as the article explained they had the right to, while birth control is a sensitive legal issue. Boycotting someone just because they are not supporting what they find immoral, now THAT'S discrimination.

It's not like it'll hurt anything drastically anyways. I don't know if it's just a delusion, but I always believed these kind of things (major protest for minor problem) are way too over exaggerated. especially in this case which makes it seem more true.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's a bad idea to call for a boycott which may end up hurting the employees the most because if they lose profits, it may lead to them laying off employees. The last thing we need right now is another company going bankrupt!

Hobby Lobby's loss would be another company's gain. Wouldn't it be nice if Michael's (for instance) gets so much more business that they start opening new stores and holding hiring fairs?

Is it also a "bad idea" for one company to market to its competitors' customers?

Secondly, I was saying that it's better to have health insurance at all rather than none at all. My health insurance doesn't cover my testosterone prescription, which is medically necessary for me, but I'm not going to boycott the state government over it.

How does someone boycott their state government?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hobby Lobby's loss would be another company's gain. Wouldn't it be nice if Michael's (for instance) gets so much more business that they start opening new stores and holding hiring fairs?

Is it also a "bad idea" for one company to market to its competitors' customers?

Huh? So you're saying that it's a good thing if Hobby Lobby goes bankrupt and people lose their jobs? :areyoucra

How does someone boycott their state government?

I dunno. That wasn't the point. I was just making a comparison.

 

[ChristineES]

The morning after pill is easily obtainable from free clinics or available over the counter for $25 to $50.

So in this case, the religious freedom is not really an inconvenience nor prevents access.

Versus say, denying life saving surgery because of religious belief.

So how is the owner's religion causing any harm? If no real harm is being caused by his religious belief, then what is the problem?

I agree with this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Huh? So you're saying that it's a good thing if Hobby Lobby goes bankrupt and people lose their jobs? :areyoucra

I'm saying that it doesn't matter.

If the various craft store chains all keep their current market shares, some people will stay employed, some people will stay unemployed, some people will lose their jobs, and some people will get new jobs. If their market shares change, some people will stay employed, some people will stay unemployed, some people will lose their jobs, and some people will get new jobs.

What I care about is the overall number of jobs and the quality of those jobs. It makes no difference to me whether those jobs are with Hobby Lobby, Michael's, or some other craft store.

Why do you care more about jobs at Hobby Lobby than jobs at its competitors?

 

[Phil25]

In most cases, I'm an advocate of religious freedoms in my country. I don't like trends and rulings that banish such an important component of our lives and identities from the public square, because I favor an environment where religious pluralism is allowed to flourish instead of sole endorsement of the "religion" of secularism or freedom from religion. Finding that balance between neither endorsing nor denying is difficult, and has been a constant struggle in my country.

But as much as I support freedom of religion, basic human rights should always, in all cases, trump that. Unfortunately, a recent Supreme Court decision did exactly the opposite:


*full story here*

I was never a fan of Hobby Lobby before, but now I will absolutely not give them any of my patronage and encourage the rest of you to do the same. I want to see this company explode in flames and burn to the ground with bankruptcy for bringing this kind of $#@% to my country.

I get that some of you Christians are against contraceptives and abortion. Fine. I respect that, and if you don't like it, don't do it. If your employee benefits package and health care covers it and you don't believe in it, then don't use it. But depriving other people of health insurance coverage for these things because you happen to disagree with it is a violation of basic human rights. I'm sorry, but it is. The only situation where I would agree with this is if it weren't illegal to hire and fire on the basis of religion - if you could ensure that absolutely everybody who works for you agrees with your company's religious beliefs. Otherwise? I'm sorry, it's total $#@%. Yes, contraceptives are available elsewhere. No, that doesn't excuse denying coverages to employees who not only have no problem with contraceptives, but their religion might consider it the ethically responsible thing to do.

I shudder to think of how this ruling will get abused for other things.

I never have been to Hobby Lobby, but now I have to buy something from Hobby Lobby. Good Job Hobby Lobby and Green Family.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why do you care more about jobs at Hobby Lobby than jobs at its competitors?

I didn't say that. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of Quint hoping a company goes bankrupt, which just punishes the workers more than anything else.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I didn't say that. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of Quint hoping a company goes bankrupt, which just punishes the workers more than anything else.

Ideally, a boycott would convince Hobby Lobby to change their business practices before bankruptcy becomes a real concern, but given the views of the company's owners, I'm not holding my breath.

Assuming that option is off the table, forcing Hobby Lobby into bankruptcy is probably the best one available. It would send a strong signal to other companies that are considering treating their female employees as second-class.

 

[crossfire]

Meme I saw spring up connected to this: "Welcome to the USA where corporations are people but women aren't"

 

[metis]

Meme I saw spring up connected to this: "Welcome to the USA where corporations are people but women aren't"

:yes:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ideally, a boycott would convince Hobby Lobby to change their business practices before bankruptcy becomes a real concern, but given the views of the company's owners, I'm not holding my breath.

Assuming that option is off the table, forcing Hobby Lobby into bankruptcy is probably the best one available. It would send a strong signal to other companies that are considering treating their female employees as second-class.

So you think it's appropriate to force a company to go under and put people out of work over a political agenda? Nice to see that you have your priorities in place!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think Hobby Lobby absolutely should remain true to their principles …

… perhaps by first severing its business ties to China.​

This is not an issue of religious rights. Rather, it is a travesty of the hypocritical Right.

 

[Phil25]

Ideally, a boycott would convince Hobby Lobby to change their business practices before bankruptcy becomes a real concern, but given the views of the company's owners, I'm not holding my breath.

Assuming that option is off the table, forcing Hobby Lobby into bankruptcy is probably the best one available. It would send a strong signal to other companies that are considering treating their female employees as second-class.

If few do indeed boycott Hobby Lobby and thay makes into the news, where do you think all the Christian Fundamentalists and Conservatives are going, Michael's or Hobby Lobby. And belive me there are more Christian Conservatives than Feminists.

 

[metis]

If few do indeed boycott Hobby Lobby and thay makes into the news, where do you think all the Christian Fundamentalists and Conservatives are going, Michael's or Hobby Lobby. And belive me there are more Christian Conservatives than Feminists.

You think that "feminists" are likely to be the only women concerned about this?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You think that "feminists" are likely to be the only women concerned about this?

… or men?

 

[Phil25]

You think that "feminists" are likely to be the only women concerned about this?

Do you think all women are going to boycott HL. My mom's not concerned about it nor my sister nor many others.

 

[Quintessence]

Ideally, a boycott would convince Hobby Lobby to change their business practices before bankruptcy becomes a real concern, but given the views of the company's owners, I'm not holding my breath.

Assuming that option is off the table, forcing Hobby Lobby into bankruptcy is probably the best one available. It would send a strong signal to other companies that are considering treating their female employees as second-class.

Precisely. It's not just Hobby Lobby I'm concerned about here. This crap opens the gate for other companies to pull the same $#@% and deny medical coverages of any sort for "religious reasons" even if their employees don't actually belong to that religion.

At any rate, I think Frank is really oversimplifying the situation by thinking "boycott Hobby Lobby = job loss." You did a better job of explaining the reality of the economics than I could. Hands down, I'd rather my local Hobby Lobby transform into a Michael's or independent craft store overnight than remain what it is.

 

[metis]

Do you think all women are going to boycott HL. My mom's not concerned about it nor my sister nor many others.

I didn't say that. Maybe instead of creating a strawman, why don't you actually read what I wrote.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So you think it's appropriate to force a company to go under and put people out of work over a political agenda? Nice to see that you have your priorities in place!

I think it's appropriate for me to choose not to spend my money with companies that I object to. I find it difficult to reach for my wallet while I'm holding my nose. If Hobby Lobby wanted my money, they would have adopted business practices that weren't completely out of line with my views.

I also avoid shopping at Wal-Mart because of their business practices. Do you also have a problem with that?

Every dollar we spend is, in a small way, a vote for what sort of world we want to live in. I don't want to live in the sort of world that Hobby Lobby envisions, so I'm not going to help them achieve their vision. Apparently, you think I should put my money toward a cause I think is immoral. Why?