Brahman or Self is pure consciousness...

[ajay0]

"You are the Self, the infinite Being, the pure, unchanging Consciousness, which pervades everything. Your nature is bliss and your glory is without stain. Because you identify yourself with the ego, you are tied to birth and death. Your bondage has no other cause", says Shankaracharya in the Vivekachudamani.



But how many people here got this basic fundamental straight and correct. This itself helps anyone to easily gauge the intellectual understanding of those who profess to talk about Advaita over here.

In sport, if the sportsman develop faulty technique, it helps to go back to the basics with the help of a coach. But if the coach himself has faulty knowledge, disaster awaits the sportsman in the field no matter how sincere or hardworking he is.

 

[stvdv]

"You are the Self, the infinite Being, the pure, unchanging Consciousness, which pervades everything. Your nature is bliss and your glory is without stain. Because you identify yourself with the ego, you are tied to birth and death. Your bondage has no other cause", says Shankaracharya in the Vivekachudamani.

It's a great book

But how many people here got this basic fundamental straight and correct.

My Master said that 1 in a billion are in this state. So, that will be 7 or 8 in the world. So, on RF probably ZERO ... won't be far off I think
(Just reading such wonderful Advaita teaching is a good first baby step ... but bookish knowledge alone is said to not be enough on the spiritual path)

 

[`mud]

You rang ?

 

[stvdv]

You rang ?

IF you mean me with you, then no, I did not . I was in India, when He gave a discourse and said this.

 

[`mud]

Just kidding

 

[shivsomashekhar]

My Master said that 1 in a billion are in this state. So, that will be 7 or 8 in the world.

If we take this number literally, the world population was lesser than a billion until 2-3 centuries ago. So, no one was in this state until the 17th Century.

Out of curiosity, is it practical to chase something that only happens to one in a billion? The odds are so low that a lifetime of effort will result in certain failure.

How does your master justify such a quest?

 

[stvdv]

My Master said that 1 in a billion are in this state. So, that will be 7 or 8 in the world

If we take this number literally, the world population was lesser than a billion until 2-3 centuries ago. So, no one was in this state until the 17th Century.

This was said a few decades ago, and knowing the importance of "Living in the present (not past/future)", this would be just speculation
I was never good in History, but I always thought that people in the Middle Ages were quite barbaric, so maybe even less chances of enlightened beings

Out of curiosity, is it practical to chase something that only happens to one in a billion? The odds are so low that a lifetime of effort will result in certain failure.

It seems not practical. But as one of the final steps is to "stop chasing" and knowing that "spirituality is above the mind" we need not worry about "the odds"
But I agree, this thought did occur to me too (odds are so low, that most will fail). But it's not about "odds", it's about Self Effort and surrender the results
I could even see this as a "kind of incentive" ... the possibility to be one of the few reaching this (tricky thought though, as ego raises it's hood "as we speak")

How does your master justify such a quest?

He was quite clear about this. Goal of Life is Self-Realization, even if you "get 1 second of it" your life was worthwhile. IF you get ZERO seconds it means "you wasted your chance". But He also said "never belittle anyone, because all are embodiments of the Divine (to belittle anyone = belittle the Divine)".

 

[Aupmanyav]

Out of curiosity, is it practical to chase something that only happens to one in a billion? The odds are so low that a lifetime of effort will result in certain failure.

It will be like buying a lottery ticket and hoping. It is a Euro-lottery.

.. it's about Self Effort and surrender.

I do not like the word, 'surrender'. You surrendered to whatever your master said. Did you use your own intelligence? I actually hate the word.
The effort is to surrender. Well, thank you. Does not suit me.

 

[stvdv]

1: I do not like the word, 'surrender'.

I understand

You surrendered to whatever your master said.

Did I?

Did you use your own intelligence?

Yes

2: I actually hate the word.

I got that

3:The effort is to surrender. Well, thank you. Does not suit me.

They say "All good things come in threes"

 

[ajay0]

It seems not practical. But as one of the final steps is to "stop chasing" and knowing that "spirituality is above the mind" we need not worry about "the odds"
But I agree, this thought did occur to me too (odds are so low, that most will fail). But it's not about "odds", it's about Self Effort and surrender the results

I have seen many people due to lack of knowledge of Advaita and Hinduism confusing surrender with personal slavery or something of that sort and seeing it as indignified.

Krishna emphasizes surrender of results to the Divine in Karma Yoga in Gita.

'Surrender in Hinduism and Jnana Yoga actually means surrender to the Self and reliinguising of one's cravings and aversions. The Self and cravings/aversions are mutually exclusive. You can have either one or the other.

As it is raag-dvesh or cravings-aversions that create the ego,
surrender of desires means conscious surrendering of the ego.

This enables swift Self-realization which actually makes one an emperor of sorts, as the whole of nature is submissive and friendly to the enlightened one and serves him or her loyally.

Ramana Maharshi talks about the concept of surrender here...

SURRENDER

Question: What is unconditional surrender?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: If one surrenders oneself there will be no one to ask questions or to be thought of. Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root-thought ‘I’, or one surrenders oneself unconditionally to the highest power. These are the only two ways for realization.

Question: Does not total or complete surrender require that one should not have left even the desire for liberation or God?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Complete surrender does require that you have no desire of your own. You must be satisfied with whatever God gives you and that means having no desires of your own.

Questioner: Now that I am satisfied on that point, I want to know what the steps are by which I could achieve surrender.

Sri Ramana Maharshi: There are two ways. One is looking into the source of ‘I’ and merging into that source. The other is feeling ‘I am helpless by myself, God alone is all-powerful and except by throwing myself completely on him, there is no other means of safety for me.’ By this method one gradually develops the conviction that God alone exists and that the ego does not count. Both methods lead to the same goal. Complete surrender is another name for jnana or liberation.

Questioner: I find surrender is easier. I want to adopt that path.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: By whatever path you go, you will have to lose yourself in the one. Surrender is complete only when you reach the stage '‘Thou art all’ and ‘Thy will be done’.

The state is not different from jnana. In soham (the affirmation of ‘I am he’) there is dvaita (dualism). In surrender there is advaita (non-dualism). In the reality there is neither dvaita nor advaita, but that which is. Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say with their lips '‘surrender'’ and put their burdens on their Lord, they can be free and do what they like. But the fact is that you can have no likes or dislikes after your surrender; your will should become completely non-existent, the Lord’s will taking its place. The death of the ego in this way brings about a state, which is not different from jnana. So by whatever path you may go, you must come to jnana or oneness.

Question: What is the best way of killing the ego?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: To each person that way is the best which appears easiest or appeals most. All the ways are equally good as they lead to the same goal, which is the merging of the ego in the Self. What the bhakta [devotee] calls surrender, the man who does vichara calls jnana. Both are trying only to take the ego back to the source from which it sprang and make it merge there.

Question: Cannot grace hasten such competence in a seeker?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Leave it to God. Surrender unreservedly. One of two things must be done. Either surrender because you admit your inability and require a higher power to help you, or investigate the cause of misery by going to the source and merging into the Self.

Either way you will be free from misery. God never forsakes one who has surrendered.

 

[stvdv]

Ramana Maharshi talks about the concept of surrender here...

Ramana Maharshi is one of the greatest IMO. I like this anecdote about Him.

 

[stvdv]

I have seen many people due to lack of knowledge of Advaita and Hinduism confusing surrender with personal slavery or something of that sort and seeing it as indignified.

Krishna emphasizes surrender of results to the Divine in Karma Yoga in Gita.

Very good point. I kept it short, but you are completely right. I have seen so much "misunderstanding" about Surrender on RF. I tried to explain a few times, but it looks like, that people don't want to know about the real meaning. They are so stuck with their own meaning, that they seem to have no interest in the Truth (of the definition of surrender).

"not smart" to dismiss this definition of surrender, as one misses out of the basic understanding of Hinduism IMO.

 

[stvdv]

'Surrender in Hinduism and Jnana Yoga actually means surrender to the Self and reliinguising of one's cravings and aversions. The Self andcravings/aversions are mutually exclusive. You can have either one or the other.

As it is raag-dvesh or cravings-aversions that create the ego,
surrender of desires means conscious surrendering of the ego.

My favorite summary in short:

Life + desire = MAN
Life - desire = GOD

 

[stvdv]

Ramana Maharshi talks about the concept of surrender here...

I read a lot from Ramana Maharishi, but I think I did not read the book you quoted
Could you please tell me from which book you quoted this wonderful explanation on Surrender

So many Atheists on RF have no clue about Surrender as Ramana perfectly explains it here, and they have such a "twisted" view of Surrender ... nothing to do with Hinduism. Hence when sharing or debating, there is so much misunderstanding and "talk past each other" all the time.

 

[ajay0]

I read a lot from Ramana Maharishi, but I think I did not read the book you quoted
Could you please tell me from which book you quoted this wonderful explanation on Surrender

The book is 'Be As You Are: The spiritual teachings and wisdom of Sri Ramana Maharshi' by Sri Ramana Maharshi.

The book is available to read on the net and anyone can google it.

Another incisive explanation by Ramana on surrender...

Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's being. Do not delude yourself by imagining such source to be some God outside you. One's source is within yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means you should seek the source and merge in it. ~Ramana Maharshi

Surrender is to one's own original Being - Sri Ramana Maharshi

 

[stvdv]

The book is 'Be As You Are: The spiritual teachings and wisdom of Sri Ramana Maharshi' by Sri Ramana Maharshi.

Thank you. This was the first book on Ramana I read around 1990. Obviously, I do not have photographic memory. But that's totally fine, as all is God's gift (with or without photographic memory). And one is not better than the other.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ramana Maharshi is one of the greatest IMO. I like this anecdote about Him.

That is similar to Jesus walking on water and resurrecting after death or Mohammad going to heaven on a white camel (Burraq) and meeting Jesus and other prophets there. Devotees tales, who do not hesitate to claim absolutely false things. It is a shame and a dishonor to Sri Ramana.

 

[stvdv]

That is similar to Jesus walking on water and resurrecting after death or Mohammad going to heaven on a white camel (Burraq) and meeting Jesus and other prophets there. Devotees tales (tails), who do not hesitate to absolutely false things. It is a shame and a dishonor to Sri Ramana.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

 

[`mud]

I want to apologize for butting into a pretty good conversation.
I'm outa here

 

[ajay0]

Ramana Maharshi is one of the greatest IMO. I like this anecdote about Him.

View attachment 40762

View attachment 40761

I remember reading a similar account of a French photographer in Arunachalam ...


A meteor in the sky follows Ramana’s last moment | The Indian Down Under

At about 9 p.m., Monsieur Cartier-Brassen, the French photographer, who has been here for about a fortnight with his wife, related his experience to Cohen. “It is a most astonishing experience,” he said. “I was in the open space in front of my house, when my friends drew my attention to the sky, where I saw a vividly-luminous shooting star with a luminous tail, unlike any shooting star I had before seen, coming from the South, moving slowly across the sky and, reaching the top of Arunachala, disappeared behind it. Because of its singularity we all guessed its import and immediately looked at our watches – it was 8.47 – and then raced to the Ashram only to find that our premonition had been only too sadly true: the Master had passed into Mahanirvana (all-pervading and deathless Selfhood) at that very minute.”


There are a lot of miracles associated with Ramana Maharshi and other sages, but these are all based on the psychic powers listed by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras that comes with advanced levels of samadhi, and I do not give it any special importance.

What is important is the teachings these sages gave and it is important to emphasize them at this time where there is a lot of misinterpretation done by pseudoscholars.