Breast implants: For or against

[ninerbuff]

I am completely lost.
This idea that a woman choosing to have large breasts is harming someone else totally escapes me. Unless she is using them to purposely suffocate the person she is with, I don't get it.

Or she turns around too fast and knocks someone up side the head and gives them a concussion, which is utterly impossible.

:biglaugh:I actually almost had that happen!!!

 

[Rakhel]

There have been plenty of cases where these things have become addictive.

I'm not denying the fact the it may become addictive. However, not everyone has an addictive personality. My biggest problem is with this idea that one woman is harming someone else because she is having cosmetic surgery. As i said, this has me completely lost.

 

[Magic Man]

Mball:

Preferences related to body attributes – be them long legs, eye color, or bigger breasts is selfish. People can’t change growth plates, eye color, or breast size unless there is surgery. Men like bigger breasts for self-serving reasons – it is selfishness -- it is all focused on one own advantage.
However, changing attitudes or values can occur and, more important, has a real societal consequences. Kinder people make the world kinder. But what societal good comes from women with fake boobs? Think beyond yourself and think of the public good.

Do you think the world would be a better place if we were all more accepting of how people’s bodies are related to normative health? Is the world a better place when people develop a beauty ethic from what is inside a person rather than the outside? What good comes from more and more men desiring women with larger breasts?

Most importantly, you skipped the biggest part of my post. Having any preference at all regarding a potential partner is selfish, by your standard. If you don't just start a relationship with any random person you meet (not based on their appearance, their personality, or even their gender), you're being "selfish", going by your idea.

If you prefer a woman with a good sense of humor, that's just as selfish as preferring big boobs. Preferring an intelligent woman is just as selfish. It's not just looks. Any time you favor one trait over another, it's all about what pleases you.

Also, I'm not sure which part of this you're not understanding. Obviously there is more to a woman than her boobs. Obviously we're not saying we only judge a woman by her breast size. Your comments are better directed at someone who claims that they only judge a woman based on boob size. They are not appropriate directed at someone who holds a woman's personality in higher regard than her boob size.

But there's also nothing wrong with only choosing a partner based on physical appearance. People call it shallow, but so what? If that's what makes you happy, and you don't care what her personality is like, I have no problem with it.

 

[ninerbuff]

People change their looks for the sole purpose of wanting to look "better" in today's society. Women wear makeup because they feel it makes them look prettier. Women get boob jobs because they think their chest will look better. Yes, some people have surgeries for medical purposes and that is fine but... come on... MOST people have corrective surgery to do just that... correct what they don't like. If only this society wasn't so darn picky about what was beautiful! No one would be self-conscious and no one would be judging other people. Society is the problem here. The media feeds the flame.

I will agree to a point Dezzie, but just from primitive instincts males and females who "look better" and have a healthier looking physiques subconsciously allures us to them because of the natural instinct to procreate. Not saying that you'll end up procreating with them, but instinctively in us we want our genes to be passed on to the next generation. And the best way to ensure that is to select a mate that has "better" qualities for survival. Pretty people will usually have pretty babies who grow up to be pretty adults and continue the gene passage. It's just natural for this to happen.

 

[Magic Man]

If he isn't listening to you or anyone else, than I guess no one else is hearing him out either.

It doesn't quite work like that. Others have listened and responded to him. All he's doing is repeating the same thing over and over, though.

Everyone has their own opinions on different situations. He doesn't have to agree with you or anyone else. He's just providing others with his own point of view. :areyoucra

Exactly, which is why this would be better as a blog post, but fails as a thread. He certainly doesn't have to agree with me, but if he isn't even going to consider what I'm saying, there's no reason for him to try to discuss it.

 

[Dezzie]

I will agree to a point Dezzie, but just from primitive instincts males and females who "look better" and have a healthier looking physiques subconsciously allures us to them because of the natural instinct to procreate. Not saying that you'll end up procreating with them, but instinctively in us we want our genes to be passed on to the next generation. And the best way to ensure that is to select a mate that has "better" qualities for survival. Pretty people will usually have pretty babies who grow up to be pretty adults and continue the gene passage. It's just natural for this to happen.

I understand where you are coming from, but in a very small way, I don't agree (very small). Who are the more "pretty ones" to you? In the animal kingdom, looks don't matter. It's only about procreating is it not? I have never been worried about who is more "attractive" (whatever that means). I fall in love with the personality. I know that it is different for men but I mean... the whole topic here is changing yourself so other's will like you more. If you change yourself, you are never going to find your true soulmate who loves you for you (not just your looks). You can be attracted to someone, sure, but when you are attracted to someone's fake boobs, there is an issue. You aren't actually attracted to the "real" them.

 

[Dezzie]

It doesn't quite work like that. Others have listened and responded to him. All he's doing is repeating the same thing over and over, though.

Understood... but it is still sparking a discussion!

Exactly, which is why this would be better as a blog post, but fails as a thread. He certainly doesn't have to agree with me, but if he isn't even going to consider what I'm saying, there's no reason for him to try to discuss it.

I wouldn't say it "fails" as a thread. Certain things just can't be considered by some people... sometimes certain things aren't able to be seen by some of us. I've tried to "see" what others are saying but if I can't "see" it, why change my own ways (this isn't necessarily directed at this thread)? If you stand strong and can see the negativity something may cause in the future, you should always continue to provide your own opinion. If you don't want to reply to this thread anymore, don't. You shouldn't sit here and complain about how his thread is a "failure" to you. Just leave. Other's will discuss it if they want to.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

I understand where you are coming from, but in a very small way, I don't agree (very small). Who are the more "pretty ones" to you? In the animal kingdom, looks don't matter. It's only about procreating is it not? I have never been worried about who is more "attractive" (whatever that means). I fall in love with the personality. I know that it is different for men but I mean... the whole topic here is changing yourself so other's will like you more. If you change yourself, you are never going to find your true soulmate who loves you for you (not just your looks). You can be attracted to someone, sure, but when you are attracted to someone's fake boobs, there is an issue. You aren't actually attracted to the "real" them.

The problem with this "looks don't matter" approach is: in the animal kingdom, signs of fertility DO matter. Humans are a species that is overwhelmingly visual. So, signs of fertility would be visual signs. As are human mating cues. A woman with large hips and a large chest is perceived fertile. Further, a clear skin is a sign of health. In other words, such a woman is perceived to both be fertile and healthy enough to deliver and raise an child out of infancy. In the human animal, looks matter, whether you like it or not.

 

[ninerbuff]

Most importantly, you skipped the biggest part of my post. Having any preference at all regarding a potential partner is selfish, by your standard. If you don't just start a relationship with any random person you meet (not based on their appearance, their personality, or even their gender), you're being "selfish", going by your idea.

If you prefer a woman with a good sense of humor, that's just as selfish as preferring big boobs. Preferring an intelligent woman is just as selfish. It's not just looks. Any time you favor one trait over another, it's all about what pleases you.

Also, I'm not sure which part of this you're not understanding. Obviously there is more to a woman than her boobs. Obviously we're not saying we only judge a woman by her breast size. Your comments are better directed at someone who claims that they only judge a woman based on boob size. They are not appropriate directed at someone who holds a woman's personality in higher regard than her boob size.

But there's also nothing wrong with only choosing a partner based on physical appearance. People call it shallow, but so what? If that's what makes you happy, and you don't care what her personality is like, I have no problem with it.

I'm getting more convinced he's nothing but a :troll: who is pandering his wears to any forum he can get on.
Breast implants for or against?

Topfree :: General Discussion :: An opposing view ~ Runboard

Breast implants and similar cosmetic surgeries - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

And it's the same BS and he treats "opposition" the same way. He's a troll.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

I'm getting more convinced he's nothing but a :troll: who is pandering his wears to any forum he can get on.
Breast implants for or against?

Topfree :: General Discussion :: An opposing view ~ Runboard

Breast implants and similar cosmetic surgeries - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

And it's the same BS and he treats "opposition" the same way. He's a troll.

Niner, the wife and I caught violations for outing a troll publicly...just warning you.

 

[trdash]

Mball:

Yes, I am suggesting just like people who have been socialized to just see the outside of people as attractive, we can equally learn to just see the inside as attractive. I have a co-worker who is quite overweight, but I see a real beauty in her because of her care ethic and work ethic and can see why her husband loves her. I would not have seen this twenty years ago when I was a self-oriented person. I am suggesting that all people, but especially men, learn to see the inner beauty of people and women more, than just outside attributes. I have been around men my entire life and as a past university high performance athlete I know what most men are like – they like to use women for sex. Dr. Nancy Ectoff’s book provides research evidence regarding this.

Wouldn’t the world be a better place if men especially learn to give women a break regarding beauty standards and breast size and just expect good normative health?

I am hearing you say that there is nothing wrong with liking certain preferences. Within normative health, I can agree with this. If I was single, I would not find a certain breast size as attractive. I would prefer a women who is in good health (personal health is a public good) and if her personality was one a desired (linked values and activities of enjoyment like mountain biking) , then regardless I would find her breasts attractive, be them large, small, average, floppy, wiggly, perky, or firm. It would not matter and I think society would be better if more men were like this. So, I am not arguing against broad aspects of preference, such as normative health and preferences of values and activities of enjoyment, but I am arguing that men can change preferences when it’s about cutting women into pieces, such as when men say without shame ‘I like women with big hooters.” And men that cut women into sexual slices – such as breast size, are selfish and harm women psychologically.

I have also heard you say that the concept of womanhood for you is well beyond breast size. Great!

 

[Magic Man]

Understood... but it is still sparking a discussion!

I wouldn't say it "fails" as a thread. Certain things just can't be considered by some people... sometimes certain things aren't able to be seen by some of us. I've tried to "see" what others are saying but if I can't "see" it, why change my own ways (this isn't necessarily directed at this thread)? If you stand strong and can see the negativity something may cause in the future, you should always continue to provide your own opinion. If you don't want to reply to this thread anymore, don't. You shouldn't sit here and complain about how his thread is a "failure" to you. Just leave. Other's will discuss it if they want to.

I'm not really sure where that came from, but it doesn't address what I'm saying. What I'm saying is trdash's "debate technique" is to just keep repeating the same points over and over even after people have brought up valid counterpoints, basically ignoring those counterpoints. So, my question was to him. I was asking him why he started a thread on the subject when another format would have been better considering his goals in posting.

What I'd like to happen is for him to understand that preferring large breasts is no more selfish than any other preference in a potential mate, including personality and "what's on the inside".

 

[Magic Man]

I'm getting more convinced he's nothing but a :troll: who is pandering his wears to any forum he can get on.
Breast implants for or against?

Topfree :: General Discussion :: An opposing view ~ Runboard

Breast implants and similar cosmetic surgeries - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

And it's the same BS and he treats "opposition" the same way. He's a troll.

Ah, see, that makes perfect sense. Nice catch!

 

[ninerbuff]

I understand where you are coming from, but in a very small way, I don't agree (very small). Who are the more "pretty ones" to you? In the animal kingdom, looks don't matter. It's only about procreating is it not? I have never been worried about who is more "attractive" (whatever that means). I fall in love with the personality. I know that it is different for men but I mean... the whole topic here is changing yourself so other's will like you more. If you change yourself, you are never going to find your true soulmate who loves you for you (not just your looks). You can be attracted to someone, sure, but when you are attracted to someone's fake boobs, there is an issue. You aren't actually attracted to the "real" them.

Our perceptions and thinking is higher though. While love has more to do with companionship, romance, and a stronger relationship, physical and health attributes don't always come with the person you choose. If someone has a high suseptibility to cancer or some illness, the "general" option for procreation is this not the best choice. However, we as humans look beyond the faults our "soulmates" have. We fall for the person and not the physical attributes. I'm just saying it's not unnatural to be attracted to someone for looks because of what our primitive brain may consider "attractive".

 

[Magic Man]

Mball:

I have also heard you say that the concept of womanhood for you is well beyond breast size. Great!

I'll start with the end. This is a perfect example of why your side of the argument is failing. You are so obsessed with this that your bias is influencing your perception of others' comments. Someone saying they prefer large breasts is not saying they don't value a woman's personality. It's not even saying they value large breasts over a good personality. I would say it's a rare case that a man values breast size over personality.

So, obviously my judgement of women goes well beyond breast size. I have never said anything that even implies differently.

Yes, I am suggesting just like people who have been socialized to just see the outside of people as attractive, we can equally learn to just see the inside as attractive. I have a co-worker who is quite overweight, but I see a real beauty in her because of her care ethic and work ethic and can see why her husband loves her. I would not have seen this twenty years ago when I was a self-oriented person. I am suggesting that all people, but especially men, learn to see the inner beauty of people and women more, than just outside attributes. I have been around men my entire life and as a past university high performance athlete I know what most men are like – they like to use women for sex. Dr. Nancy Ectoff’s book provides research evidence regarding this.

Wouldn’t the world be a better place if men especially learn to give women a break regarding beauty standards and breast size and just expect good normative health?

You're still not getting it, and you're ignoring a very important point I made. Please respond to the point that preferring a good personality is just as selfish as preferring large breasts.

And men that cut women into sexual slices – such as breast size, are selfish and harm women psychologically.

Let's try it this way:

No, they aren't, and no, they don't.

Did that work? You're obviously not going to actually listen to any arguments against, so maybe just saying it "louder" will help.

 

[Songbird]

Or she turns around too fast and knocks someone up side the head and gives them a concussion, which is utterly impossible.

Heh. Sounds like a challenge.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Heh. Sounds like a challenge.

It would hurt you more than it hurts him...

 

[Songbird]

It would hurt you more than it hurts him...

Awesomely funny visual.

 

[trdash]

Mball:

Please keep in mind that there are many people directing posts toward me, and it is difficult for me to address all of the questions that are being directed toward me. Please repeat your main concern and I will honestly try to address it.

With that said, however, I am suggesting just like people who have been socialized to just see the outside of people as attractive, we can equally learn to just see the inside as attractive. I have a co-worker who is quite overweight, but I see a real beauty in her because of her care ethic and work ethic and can see why her husband loves her. I would not have seen this twenty years ago when I was a self-oriented person. I am suggesting that all people, but especially men, learn to see the inner beauty of people and women more, than just outside attributes. I have been around men my entire life and as a past university high performance athlete I know what most men are like – they like to use women for sex. Dr. Nancy Ectoff’s book provides research evidence regarding this.

Wouldn’t the world be a better place if men especially learn to give women a break regarding beauty standards and breast size and just expect good normative health?

I am hearing you say that there is nothing wrong with liking certain preferences. Within normative health, I can agree with this. If I was single, I would not find a certain breast size as attractive. I would prefer a women who is in good health (personal health is a public good) and if her personality was one a desired (linked values and activities of enjoyment like mountain biking) , then regardless I would find her breasts attractive, be them large, small, average, floppy, wiggly, perky, or firm. It would not matter and I think society would be better if more men were like this. So, I am not arguing against broad aspects of preference, such as normative health and preferences of values and activities of enjoyment, but I am arguing that men can change preferences when it’s about cutting women into pieces, such as when men say without shame ‘I like women with big hooters.” And men that cut women into sexual slices – such as breast size, are selfish and harm women psychologically.

I have also heard you say that the concept of womanhood for you is well beyond breast size. Great!

 

[Songbird]

Yeeeeeah, I'm gonna be Devil's Advocate and say I appreciate Trdash's points. I've enjoyed this discussion.

Edit: Though I just noticed the repeated point.