You seem to have a selfish obsession with inner beauty, & disregard for appearance.
Do you have some absolute moral truth enabling you to criticize what appeals to other men?
Ain't nuthin wrong with fancying big hooters. To each his own.
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Breast implants: For or against
- Thread starter trdash
- Start date
Do you have some absolute moral truth enabling you to criticize what appeals to other men?
Ain't nuthin wrong with fancying big hooters. To each his own.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
It's not uncommon for people to justify beliefs if they are stuck in a situation where they can't change it. Maybe the Mrs. has small hooters and is average looking.
Let's not bring the man's Mrs into this.
Methinks he just doesn't appreciate that different people have different likes &
dislikes, & that there's nothing wrong with a base animal lust for big knockers.
It all sounds too Puritanical to me.
Revoltingert:
My obsession is with hegemonic masculinity and the low ego development of men, and how men harm women (and other men) from a psychological perspective. And I see this as deep harm where men act as cro-magnum man. Drawing on Dr. Stuart Hauser, a psychiatrist/developmental psychologist at the University of Massachusetts has developed three stages of ego development. When you view men at this site (where there are obvious examples) and in the community that are focused on external looks, including privileging breast size/shape, which stage of development would you put them in (see below)
Impulsive Ego Stage:
Cognitive Processes
l Difficult time controlling impulses
l Right and wrong is based upon external processes
l Behaviors based upon self gratification
Actions
l Avoid difficult decisions and talk around issues
l Little or no bi-directional conversation
l Rigid and combative interactions
l Little patience for new or different perspective
Conformist Ego Stage:
Cognitive Processes
l Provides conventional thoughts
l Can acknowledge different perspectives, but in a superficial manner
Actions
l Show empathy to in-group, but not to outsiders
l Reflects commonplace standards without thinking about challenging ideas or structures
l Follow firm values with little flexibility
l Little patience for ambiguity or differences
Consciousness/Autonomous Ego Stage:
Cognitive process
l Have a better understanding of other people & groups
l Gain empathy understand the world views of others
l Self-reflective and can accept criticism from others
l Deal with inner conflict in a complex manner
Actions
l Welcome different opinions and perspectives
l Can change opinions based upon input from other
l Aware of meta-communication aware of feelings or thoughts while communicating
l Conversations are viewed as important
I see so many men at the impulsive ego state, that literally drag women down to their level, and am an advocate of helping men learn to un-learn past harm. That is what I am really obsessed with and so many men cant get beyond the impulsive stage because of body image issue they have related to self and women, and then worse, they teach other men that this is normal or how real men are or are hard wired. When indeed they need to be reflexive and learn to make internal change so they can stop hurting others.
My obsession is with hegemonic masculinity and the low ego development of men, and how men harm women (and other men) from a psychological perspective. And I see this as deep harm where men act as cro-magnum man. Drawing on Dr. Stuart Hauser, a psychiatrist/developmental psychologist at the University of Massachusetts has developed three stages of ego development. When you view men at this site (where there are obvious examples) and in the community that are focused on external looks, including privileging breast size/shape, which stage of development would you put them in (see below)
Impulsive Ego Stage:
Cognitive Processes
l Difficult time controlling impulses
l Right and wrong is based upon external processes
l Behaviors based upon self gratification
Actions
l Avoid difficult decisions and talk around issues
l Little or no bi-directional conversation
l Rigid and combative interactions
l Little patience for new or different perspective
Conformist Ego Stage:
Cognitive Processes
l Provides conventional thoughts
l Can acknowledge different perspectives, but in a superficial manner
Actions
l Show empathy to in-group, but not to outsiders
l Reflects commonplace standards without thinking about challenging ideas or structures
l Follow firm values with little flexibility
l Little patience for ambiguity or differences
Consciousness/Autonomous Ego Stage:
Cognitive process
l Have a better understanding of other people & groups
l Gain empathy understand the world views of others
l Self-reflective and can accept criticism from others
l Deal with inner conflict in a complex manner
Actions
l Welcome different opinions and perspectives
l Can change opinions based upon input from other
l Aware of meta-communication aware of feelings or thoughts while communicating
l Conversations are viewed as important
I see so many men at the impulsive ego state, that literally drag women down to their level, and am an advocate of helping men learn to un-learn past harm. That is what I am really obsessed with and so many men cant get beyond the impulsive stage because of body image issue they have related to self and women, and then worse, they teach other men that this is normal or how real men are or are hard wired. When indeed they need to be reflexive and learn to make internal change so they can stop hurting others.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
I don't think it's about appreciation, it's about trying to enforce his viewpoint with exaggerated BS that he plugs in with actual studies. Lol, and apparently he's some sort of psychology assistant or something. First rule of psychology.........everyone is crazy but you.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
Gunfingers
Happiness Incarnate
Boy, I sure have been guilt-tripped out of finding attractive women attractive.
I'm glad I never took a psychology course.
Life is good for us cro-magnons.
Life is good for us cro-magnons.
Revoltingest:
Although I am a practicing Christain, my view on this subject is based mainly on health psychologist and some feminst views of gender and health. I am not a radical Christain or some type of fundamentialist. Although I am a practicing Christain, I do not think its puritanical, as more about female psychological health. I worked with a good amout of women in general counseling and sports counseling to know the hell they do through related to body image and I see much of coming from the dominant discourse of male norms. Men need to change in this area. But I want to make it also known, that I am not some Christain and academic geek who does not have a life or a background. I was at one time a university hockey player, I was a fairly normal male when younger related to dating/women, and even have some fraternity regrets with wet male underwear contests and other activities related to measuring up, and thinking that bigger breasts were better (like 15-20 years ago). My past expereince, and what I know now academically, has directed me to see the harm of base animal lust, for what you are calling big knockers. It really does harm women. Sadly, too many men stay in the pubescent stage of ego development and never grow up.
With that said, I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not suggesting you have an overall impulsive ego. In other post, and in some of you comments here, you seem like a pretty good guy. But the focus on animal lusts related to just this one topic (larger breasts), I simply have an honest disagreement. But I am not making any type of universal personality statement about you, it is just related to this one topic of breast size and its implications of why women get breast implant surgeries.
I hope I am making sense and I do not men to offend you in any way.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
BS. That's why you insist that men that think of big breasts are selfish. That men that think this way are harmful people. Quit being wishy washy and man up. If you really feel that way then don't back track and say "oh I'm don't mean you" BS. Though I totally think you're off base, you should at least stick to your convictions if that's what you really feel because then you're nothing more than a tree that leans the way the wind blows.
Worry not...you don't offend me at all. You've been civil, clear & interesting.
I find it OK to disagree, & I've enjoyed the fun we've had in this thread.
Please don't mistake my waggish posts for animosity.
I also support their right to to sprout wings & wear skimpy black pixie outfits.
Last edited:
Ultraviolet:
I have mentioned this in past posts, I am not opposed to breast implants based on female rights. Women should have a right to control their bodies. I am opposed to them because of the social harm they create to so many women, and some men. That is why I used the analogy of smoking, breast implants are like second hand smoke, the consequences of individuals harms others.
Raskolnikov
New Member
Point #1: Why do men need to get over that? What is wrong with finding the figure of a woman with large breasts attractive?
Point #2: Most men do see inner attributes as important when determining how attracted they are to women. But what is wrong with only being attracted to physical qualities? Sure, it's shallow, but so what?
Why is valuing a good sense of humor different from valuing a large set of breasts? Either one can make people self-conscious.
I also don't see "I like larger breasts" as an entitlement comment. I see it as expressing a preference. And I really don't understand what would make that selfish. Is valuing a good sense of humor selfish?
I disagree. I think you're comparing breast implants with sexual objectification of women in the same way that porn is demonized as the cause of sexual objectification. Implants, porn, stiletto heels, short skirts, underwire bras, girdles, etc.....those aren't the problems. It's us. And by "us" I mean people.
Look, you're trying. I applaud that. But honey, you're barking up the wrong tree. What we should be pointing the finger at is not sexual objectification of women per se, but objectifying women in any light. It goes way beyond breast implants, such as:
A woman should have....
An agreeable personality
Good coiffed hair and polished skin
A warm smile
An endlessly nurturing spirit
Feet that will endure long days in shoes that will murder your posture (hence the pedicure bill)
A clean house
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
In other words, a woman should be a man's "helpmeet" as well as having the education and the ability to provide for her children....there's a bunch of things we as a society burden women with, and large breasts is the least we saddle us with culturally.
My mission has been pretty simple with women. It isn't to have a crusade against pornography (which I actually like), or breast implants (which I don't care for), or the "superwoman" syndrome (which really does more harm than any breast fascination). No, my dear, my mission has been to encourage women everywhere to do two things:
1) Speak your mind
2) Flaunt your stuff
In other words, a woman is only to be who she is and to define herself by her own standards. That's it. Once we start defining womanhood, that's when you fellas start mystifying us and making us into this strange animal that you think can't be figured out. We're not mythical. Our brains work a little different than men's brains do, but mostly we're human like you.
And that DOES include sexual attraction based on physical attributes. However, as much as I know my husband likes looking at certain hot young ladies in tight pants (he's a butt guy
).....the minute they open their mouths, he completely loses interest if they're shallow, annoying, or unintelligent.For your information, trdash, most men are like that, too.
MysticSang'ha and Raskolnikov
Both of you bring up some valid points, but they have already been answered and talked about in different posts and I do not want to become ciruclar and keep repeating the same things over and over. Also iI do not want to dismiss your thoughts.
If I may, please read some of my past posts -- espeically # 231 and #243. Also, Songbird has some real wisodm in posts #275 and 281. But if you read between 231-281, your topics are explained -- which in essense suggests that there is a huge difference between making personality traits (e.g. a care ethic, a good sense of humor, a hard work ethic, a nurting spirit) seem like equals to outer body attributes, such as breast size. I also address in these post how preferences and attitudes can change and have stated that we should focus more on developing healthier bodies than hotter bodies.
In the end, wouldn't all of us benefit, and wouldn't society be a better place, if people could see the inner attributes of people with greater depth and clarity than the outser -- usually sexual -- attributes? All flaunting does is create envy, and there is nothing good that comes from envy. In this context, envy causes plastic surgeons to exploit female vulrabilties so that they can mae profit off of sexually objecfying women. Wouldn't all people, but espically women, be treated better if we coould simpyl see beyond sexual objects, and try to all become healthy people?
Both of you bring up some valid points, but they have already been answered and talked about in different posts and I do not want to become ciruclar and keep repeating the same things over and over. Also iI do not want to dismiss your thoughts.
If I may, please read some of my past posts -- espeically # 231 and #243. Also, Songbird has some real wisodm in posts #275 and 281. But if you read between 231-281, your topics are explained -- which in essense suggests that there is a huge difference between making personality traits (e.g. a care ethic, a good sense of humor, a hard work ethic, a nurting spirit) seem like equals to outer body attributes, such as breast size. I also address in these post how preferences and attitudes can change and have stated that we should focus more on developing healthier bodies than hotter bodies.
In the end, wouldn't all of us benefit, and wouldn't society be a better place, if people could see the inner attributes of people with greater depth and clarity than the outser -- usually sexual -- attributes? All flaunting does is create envy, and there is nothing good that comes from envy. In this context, envy causes plastic surgeons to exploit female vulrabilties so that they can mae profit off of sexually objecfying women. Wouldn't all people, but espically women, be treated better if we coould simpyl see beyond sexual objects, and try to all become healthy people?
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
Excellent, Mystic.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Of course women also objectify men by putting a undue value on how much money they make, what kind of job they have, and how much power they wield. I once went with a girl/woman who got quite irritated and eventually left me after I sold my sports car. Not saying this was the deal breaker, but from what she said I know it figured into the equation---actually, she saved me the trouble of eventually doing the same to her.
I hate it when they judge me by the extent of my caring, sensitivity & understanding.
So shallow...so shallow...