Breast implants: For or against

[Koldo]

What about gay men that aren't attracted to breasts? Are they just "hardwired" that way?

Yes...

 

[ninerbuff]

What about gay men that aren't attracted to breasts? Are they just "hardwired" that way?

Yes............male breasts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just for you.....
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Now, you can be Ninerbuff!

 

[ninerbuff]

Just for you.....
[youtube]tfjj-lx8t9k[/youtube]
YouTube - Getting Rid Of Man Boobs - Lose The Moobs Male Breast Reduction

Now, you can be Ninerbuff!

I wonder if the OP is against men getting gyno removed by cosmetic surgery. Afterall it can be "natural" in some men and he's for embracing your body for your natural misgivings.

 

[trdash]

Draka:
You might be right regarding that my talking about breast size/shape contributes to the social discourse about breast implants/shape. But do you think if I remained silent the problem would go away? In my mind, I can make extremely small change by communicating that men and women who advance/support the idea that a certain breast shape is better than others advance/support very serious social problems, which is the sexual objectification of women and its associated health problems (e.g., depression, eating disorders, dysphonic disorders). My small voice can have a sphere of influence -- if I say nothing, the issue of seeing breast as sexual and the preference for larger/firmer breasts still continues, so in my mind if I say the opposite, I can at least influence others to think twice about thinking that larger/firmer breasts are better. Do I make sense?

Big boobs are not a problem. Its men and women who promote the perfect breast image through breast implants surgeries who are a problem because they are the antecedents of a social problem. Some women who have larger breasts want them smaller and more shapely or firm in order to promote the Barbie doll image. It’s the promoting of a type of breast image over others that is a problem.

The studies behind why women get breast implants are so they can have a certain body image that is aligned to the Barbie ideal. So, when women get breasts implants some may not think “I’m getting this so that men will flock over me.” Rather, it’s more like “I’m getting these so I look good” – but the “look good” is associated to a Barbie doll image (small waists, firm/larger breasts). And firm and larger breasts has not functional health outcome, other can looking more sexual. Some women just want to look sexual for their husbands in private – but the reason for augmenting breast shape is to look sexual. My argument is that there is greater good in society when we can look past body image and just see the inner beauty of people. With this said, I still believe we need to be healthy and we should exercise and eat well in orders to have healthier (not hotter) bodies. Being mutilated by plastic surgeries, and exploited so that they can make a profit, goes not help women.

I think I have a great amount of sympathy for women – including women who are larger on top. We are good friends with a couple in which the woman is huge up top and she has shared with my wife and I the problems. I am not arguing against women who have large breasts. If natural, they could not help it they were large, just like a woman who is smaller did not cause them to be smaller. I also have dislike for men who crack jokes about women who are larger and make them feel embarrassed for being busty. I am arguing that (1) its great for a man to like breasts, but (2) all people need to get over the size/shape aspects. Fall in love with women and then appreciate her breasts for what they are – whether large, or small, or average. Just enjoy them for what they are – if these women give consent to enjoy them.

I do not oppose women who have larger breasts, I oppose men and women who reinforce that a certain breast image is better than others – and the act of cosmetically oriented breast implants sends such a message.

 

[trdash]

I checked out at some point with this thread, and I'm too lazy to read all the pages, but this jumped out at me:


*nods* I've said this many times. No matter how much a woman accomplishes, it seems it's just too easy to bring it all back to her looks. Who hasn't heard nasty comments about female politicians that have nothing to do with their politics?

Speaking of...

Meghan McCain tells Glenn Beck to shut up about her body.

He doesn't like her political position on things, so what does he attack? Her body. Her looks. Hit her where it really hurts.

I know it's childish, but Beck deserves a swift kick in the nuts.

Anne:

Very well put, all around. Even when women accoplish public good -- it always goes back to her image -- which is a sad, but harmful discourse.

In regard to Glenn Beck, I can't stand the guy and see him as a very harmful person in society.

 

[trdash]

What about gay men that aren't attracted to breasts? Are they just "hardwired" that way?

Dezzie:

I think you make a great point that we can't just lump all men together and say they are all "hard wired" one way. We can make honest and accurate probabilities of behaviors (e.g., one average men are more visually sexually aroused than women -- but not all men are this way and some women get sexually arounsed via visual), but I have also found such explanations are a good way to thwart personal responsbility for personal actions. Men can sexually objectify female worth and render it to breast size/image and then say they can't help it, they are hard wired that way or God made them that way. Its a poor excuse.

With that said, I know that both men and women can have strong urges -- but I still think at the end of the day, most people can control and direct (at least somewhat) their "hard-wiring."

 

[Koldo]

Dezzie:

I think you make a great point that we can't just lump all men together and say they are all "hard wired" one way. We can make honest and accurate probabilities of behaviors (e.g., one average men are more visually sexually aroused than women -- but not all men are this way and some women get sexually arounsed via visual), but I have also found such explanations are a good way to thwart personal responsbility for personal actions. Men can sexually objectify female worth and render it to breast size/image and then say they can't help it, they are hard wired that way or God made them that way. Its a poor excuse.

Each individual is hard-wired one way or another, quite simple indeed.

You are asking too much from people.
You don't simply want people to change the way they act.
You want people to change the way they feel. This is the absurd.

 

[trdash]

Each individual is hard-wired one way or another, quite simple indeed.

You are asking too much from people.
You don't simply want people to change the way they act.
You want people to change the way they feel. This is the absurd.

Is gaining empathy for others really absurd? Perhaps people in western countries are too foucsed on individualistic (self-oriented) values and taking time to learn about cross gender difficulties is radical. But I disagree. As I learned more and more about what women go through because of men who are breast crazy, I have come learn how awful some men (and women) can be to equating breast size to female worth and I have learned to change. Empathy for others is not absurb, in fact, its the first step to learning how to change our feelings -- which then leads to behavior change.

 

[Koldo]

Is gaining empathy for others really absurd?

The problem is not your empathy for others.
The problem is your proposed solution.
You believe that people need to change the way they feel just so some others will not feel like victims; this is an absurd.

Perhaps people in western countries are too foucsed on individualistic (self-oriented) values and taking time to learn about cross gender difficulties is radical. But I disagree. As I learned more and more about what women go through because of men who are breast crazy, I have come learn how awful some men (and women) can be to equating breast size to female worth and I have learned to change.

You are seriously making a storm on a cup of water ( that is a common saying in my country ). You are exaggerating the problem a lot.

There is a HUGE difference between having a preference for a given breast size and equating breast size to female worth. HUGE.

Empathy for others is not absurb, in fact, its the first step to learning how to change our feelings -- which then leads to behavior change.

I would advice utmost care when trying to change your own feelings.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

There is a HUGE difference between having a preference for a given breast size and equating breast size to female worth. HUGE.

Well.....yeah.

I have a preference for good hands on a man, for a flowery fragrance on a woman's neck, for curvy hips on a woman, for the male dancer physique on a man, and for a little facial hair on a man.

But in no way, shape, or form do I equate these preferences with a person's worth. Not even close.

 

[ninerbuff]

Dezzie:
With that said, I know that both men and women can have strong urges -- but I still think at the end of the day, most people can control and direct (at least somewhat) their "hard-wiring."

Ahahaha! This said from a guy that can't control his erections from visual stimuli..

 

[ninerbuff]

Is gaining empathy for others really absurd? Perhaps people in western countries are too foucsed on individualistic (self-oriented) values and taking time to learn about cross gender difficulties is radical. But I disagree. As I learned more and more about what women go through because of men who are breast crazy, I have come learn how awful some men (and women) can be to equating breast size to female worth and I have learned to change. Empathy for others is not absurb, in fact, its the first step to learning how to change our feelings -- which then leads to behavior change.

So go to Africa and volunteer your time to feeding the hungy if you're so empathetic. Isn't this more important than worrying about breast augmentation?

 

[trdash]

You believe that people need to change the way they feel just so some others will not feel like victims; this is an absurd.



There is a HUGE difference between having a preference for a given breast size and equating breast size to female worth. HUGE.


.

Kolb:

I disagree with your first quote, but think you are right on the second. Empathy and learning how people feel is part of higher ego development. Again, perhaps it is absurb because we live in such a self-focused society.

You are right there is a difference between men who prefer a certain breast image/size, but see other attributes as more important (e.g., personality) than men who are driven toward simply large breasted women. But with this said, don't you think men would be better people if they were totally focused on personality, with no real concern about breast size/image.

 

[Koldo]

Kolb:

I disagree with your first quote, but think you are right on the second. Empathy and learning how people feel is part of higher ego development. Again, perhaps it is absurb because we live in such a self-focused society.

What part do you disagree with?
The first or the second sentence?

You are right there is a difference between men who prefer a certain breast image/size, but see other attributes as more important (e.g., personality) than men who are driven toward simply large breasted women. But with this said, don't you think men would be better people if they were totally focused on personality, with no real concern about breast size/image.

Maybe. Hard to know.

 

[trdash]

Koldo:

I disagree with you regarding the connection of feeling with what you are calling victims. I am suggesting that when we can put our self-oriented values aside, and truly listen to others and immerse ourselves in the worldview of others, we can change our feelings.

When I was a young 20 year old punk, I thought larger breasts (and penises) were better. But as I have really learned to hear the voices of women and have learned the hell they live through being sexually obejctified, somewhere in the past 15 years I have learned to change my feelings. And in all honesty, breast size is now a completely irrelvant concept to me -- and it really does not matter. I learned to feel and understand -- somewhat -- the hell that women go through related to body image and realized that I was part of creating that hell. So, I gained some degree of empathy and used it as a srping board to change my attitudes and preferences.

I disagree with you, and other, that have stated things like "I can't help what I am attractived to" or "this is how men are hard-wired." As people we can't completely control everything, but at the same time, we are not completely helpless people to our preferences and feelings. We have some degree of control, not unlimited, but some degree.

Do I make sense, Koldo

 

[Koldo]

Koldo:

I disagree with you regarding the connection of feeling with what you are calling victims. I am suggesting that when we can put our self-oriented values aside, and truly listen to others and immerse ourselves in the worldview of others, we can change our feelings.

When I was a young 20 year old punk, I thought larger breasts (and penises) were better. But as I have really learned to hear the voices of women and have learned the hell they live through being sexually obejctified, somewhere in the past 15 years I have learned to change my feelings. And in all honesty, breast size is now a completely irrelvant concept to me -- and it really does not matter. I learned to feel and understand -- somewhat -- the hell that women go through related to body image and realized that I was part of creating that hell. So, I gained some degree of empathy and used it as a srping board to change my attitudes and preferences.

I disagree with you, and other, that have stated things like "I can't help what I am attractived to" or "this is how men are hard-wired." As people we can't completely control everything, but at the same time, we are not completely helpless people to our preferences and feelings. We have some degree of control, not unlimited, but some degree.

Do I make sense, Koldo

Let us make this clear: Did you use to value a woman's worth for her breast size?

 

[trdash]

Koldo:

In the past I was a typical male – again, this was 15 years ago. I did not see all of female worth beginning and ending with breast size/shape – but I did think (sadly) bigger was better. And because I thought bigger/shapely breasts were better, I was contributing to the harm that women experience related to worth be connected to breast size and body image.

In the book “The survival of the Prettiest” the psychologist Nancy Ectoff outlines that most men will take breast size/shape into account in relation to overall attraction when first meeting a woman. She argues that because penis size is hidden, woman are not socialized this way (which raises an interesting question that if penis size was more apparent in society if women would begin to think that penis size would be part of overall male attraction).

What I have been suggesting in this entire post is that (1) men really need to get over the view that breast size/shape has some connection to overall attraction – especially related to female worth/credible, and (2) men need to learn to see more inner attributes as vital to female attraction. I am not suggesting we all become fat slobs and see only the inner attributes; rather that we focus on being healthy/fit people who can see more of the inner attributes of women/people, rather than being so outer focused. And men who even prefer larger/shapely breasts as a general view of attraction need to change. I am blown away with the selfishness of men who make entitlement comments like “I like larger breasts.”

 

[Walkntune]

I would take a girl with a good heart and personality any day over breast size. I am not moved by materailistic physical traits as much as I am the deeper emotional aspects of a person. I also hate anything fake.I am attracted to women who don't where makeup because I can see her inside beauty shine on her face.

 

[ninerbuff]

What I have been suggesting in this entire post is that (1) men really need to get over the view that breast size/shape has some connection to overall attraction – especially related to female worth/credible, and (2) men need to learn to see more inner attributes as vital to female attraction. I am not suggesting we all become fat slobs and see only the inner attributes; rather that we focus on being healthy/fit people who can see more of the inner attributes of women/people, rather than being so outer focused. And men who even prefer larger/shapely breasts as a general view of attraction need to change. I am blown away with the selfishness of men who make entitlement comments like “I like larger breasts.”

Lol, no you've been trying to enforce your opinion of what you see as fit for how a male should be. Be blown away dude. There are men that like BIG BREASTS and some that like small ones. Some like big butts and some don't. You call it selfishness, but it's called PREFERENCE. Don't like, then no need to rain on others parades that do.
I'll say it again so you can be blown away. I LIKE BIG BREASTS.:drool: