Brussels Under Attack

[godnotgod]

That is not true. They are true believers. Hitler believed Jews were a bane on mankind and this belief led to his going down in history (rightfully) as a monster. We can all have false beliefs that lead to evil. Whole societies can (slavery, persecutions, homophobia, racism, sexism).

The test of whether or not the tree bears good fruit or bad is one we can try to apply (so long as we are not blinded by the belief) -- if the belief leads to wars and killings and treating others poorly, then it is a false belief.

'True believers' who end up killing as part of their false belief system cannot act out of true devotion. They are other-directed zombies, acting out a drama in which they portray themselves as genuine. This is the fiction we call 'life' we cling to as if it were real. It is this seemingly real but fictitious existence Buddhists end up negating, and which appears as nihilism to the non-Buddhist.

True believers in a false belief don't have much that is true to show, do they?

 

[Frank Merton]

I disagree. Were they just zombies they would have no personal responsibility, but would be but robots. I think they are very much responsible for what they do.

 

[skl]

I disagree. Were they just zombies they would have no personal responsibility, but would be but robots. I think they are very much responsible for what they do.

Zombie, a person who has no energy, seems to act without thinking, and does not notice what is happening: I guess the last two appear to have some relevance in this situation.

My amateur theory similar to many others, is that we have such a powerful brain that we all struggle to control many aspects of as it often warps our sense of reality but also contributing individuality even if we do not realise it.

Why individuals who become religious based terrorists is unmeasurable, however my thoughts are that they are weaker or less able than most of us in controlling certain aspects of this powerful mind that is able to exploit them through some of the extremely emotional areas of the cognitive making them easy prey for initial indoctrination and radicalisation.

Even though some of these victims of radicalisation may not have been over emotional during normal life some of their emotions are triggered to become far more intensive and enduring than most of us will ever experience.

These extremely emotive thoughts Interwoven with encouragement from repetitive and active terrorist recruiters who manipulate these dominating emotions and impressionable events recorded within the subconscious, completely destroys the few rational thoughts and logical assessments of reality these people used to be capable of using, and creates a false reality in what appears as a righteous new life permanently takes over.

 

[godnotgod]

I disagree. Were they just zombies they would have no personal responsibility, but would be but robots. I think they are very much responsible for what they do.

Really? So after all the wanton killing, they are going to make up to the grieving families of the dead and take away all their suffering?

They're completely directed via their indoctrination, and their indoctrination is imposed and regulated by their leaders. Where is their responsibility?

 

[godnotgod]

Zombie, a person who has no energy, seems to act without thinking, and does not notice what is happening: I guess the last two appear to have some relevance in this situation.

My amateur theory similar to many others, is that we have such a powerful brain that we all struggle to control many aspects of as it often warps our sense of reality but also contributing individuality even if we do not realise it.

Why individuals who become religious based terrorists is unmeasurable, however my thoughts are that they are weaker or less able than most of us in controlling certain aspects of this powerful mind that is able to exploit them through some of the extremely emotional areas of the cognitive making them easy prey for initial indoctrination and radicalisation.

Even though some of these victims of radicalisation may not have been over emotional during normal life some of their emotions are triggered to become far more intensive and enduring than most of us will ever experience.

These extremely emotive thoughts Interwoven with encouragement from repetitive and active terrorist recruiters who manipulate these dominating emotions and impressionable events recorded within the subconscious, completely destroys the few rational thoughts and logical assessments of reality these people used to be capable of using, and creates a false reality in what appears as a righteous new life permanently takes over.

Shall we add to the above the context within which it occurs, ie; the invasion of their lands?

 

[Jumi]

Shall we add to the above the context within which it occurs, ie; the invasion of their lands?

No one invaded these people's lands. Remember too, that Belgium was against the Iraq war and was part of the nations that condemned the invasion. There was no legitimate reason, they just wanted to murder innocent civilians. It wasn't revenge. Nothing they did, helped any civilians anywhere and they probably knew this.

 

[skl]

Shall we add to the above the context within which it occurs, ie; the invasion of their lands?

I guess it boils down to the fact that no indoctrinated and radicalised terrorist has the same underlying motives that provide the trigger for them to want to murder innocent people.

The furthest state of mind many people get to is indoctrination.

The state of mind I believe is behind radicalisation is triggered by an emotional event causing irrational thoughts that often manifest in uncharacteristic behaviour such as what comes from an intense feeling of hatred towards someone that has often gone so far as manslaughter or murder charges.

The difference being most of us get over this erratic state of mind but these terrorists and many murderers were and always will be mentally more unstable than normal and always will be prone to this condition.

This however does not exempt them from their responsibilities because they knew right from wrong before they allowed these events to consume them, unless of course the science conclusively finds otherwise or a psychological answer for indoctrination and the unstable mind.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/world/europe/belgium-fears-nuclear-plants-are-vulnerable.html?_r=0

 

[Jumi]

In the news.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/world/europe/belgium-fears-nuclear-plants-are-vulnerable.html?_r=0

Other European countries upped Nuclear plant security also. The ISIS in Belgium had a plot that got spoiled bigger than the French civilian massacre which was ruined when their ring was exposed. It looks like this is going to get worse from now on.

Two things that caused Europeans to fear Nuclear terrorism:

- A Nuclear plant security guard was just found shot in Belgium.
- The Brussels bombers had filmed the chief of a Nuclear plant with intent of getting in the power plant.

 

[Grumpuss]

That is pure Astroglide, and not even my friend Tom would accept such an argument, and he's a bottomless pit of gulpability. This Muslim problem is one that won't go away unless Islam as a whole is willing to reform.

Most apologistic analysts refute a few-bad-apples-spoil-the-batch argument, but also not applicable are the bronytastic claims that Islam as a whole is powerless to prevent such savagery from arising in its name.

We just an historic shift from the Obama administration to have the State Dept. actually declare what the rest of the world has know for awhile- that ISIS is committing genocide against Christians. The End Times appear to upon us. It's easy to envision the Biblical prophecy of Jews fighting across the river Jordan; ISIS or the next incarnation of evil that Satan summons are on track to bring a thousand years of war and famine and torture and sodomy and hopelessness to the world. I wish I could believe in the Rapture like some of my fundamentalist brethren, but it feels like an unrealistic fantasy. The war will be the last one fought on Earth, and Christians will steadily lose, until such time as they win with the return of JESUS.

Peacefully, I know Muslims as a vast majority, and not to be blamed for this crisis. They are not aligned with the World Government, being unable to work such complex mechanisms as diplomacy, capitalism, peacebuilding and technology (specifically the black helicopters and wire taps that are used to spy on our underground. As they worship the same God as do I, in principle, it proves they are at least somewhat reasonable.

I will bet an entire crate of Peach Scnaps that the next terror attack will be committed by a radical Islamist crazyhorse, and fears of potential Islamophia will be promoted as more pressing concern than actual bring these people night!

 

[Frank Merton]

They have powerful egos, but they are seriously deficient in brains.

 

[Crypto2015]

That is pure Astroglide, and not even my friend Tom would accept such an argument, and he's a bottomless pit of gulpability. This Muslim problem is one that won't go away unless Islam as a whole is willing to reform.

Most apologistic analysts refute a few-bad-apples-spoil-the-batch argument, but also not applicable are the bronytastic claims that Islam as a whole is powerless to prevent such savagery from arising in its name.

We just an historic shift from the Obama administration to have the State Dept. actually declare what the rest of the world has know for awhile- that ISIS is committing genocide against Christians. The End Times appear to upon us. It's easy to envision the Biblical prophecy of Jews fighting across the river Jordan; ISIS or the next incarnation of evil that Satan summons are on track to bring a thousand years of war and famine and torture and sodomy and hopelessness to the world. I wish I could believe in the Rapture like some of my fundamentalist brethren, but it feels like an unrealistic fantasy. The war will be the last one fought on Earth, and Christians will steadily lose, until such time as they win with the return of JESUS.

Peacefully, I know Muslims as a vast majority, and not to be blamed for this crisis. They are not aligned with the World Government, being unable to work such complex mechanisms as diplomacy, capitalism, peacebuilding and technology (specifically the black helicopters and wire taps that are used to spy on our underground. As they worship the same God as do I, in principle, it proves they are at least somewhat reasonable.

I will bet an entire crate of Peach Scnaps that the next terror attack will be committed by a radical Islamist crazyhorse, and fears of potential Islamophia will be promoted as more pressing concern than actual bring these people night!

Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. Many "moderate" Muslims know that Islamic terrorists are actually devout Muslims.

 

[skl]

That is pure Astroglide, and not even my friend Tom would accept such an argument, and he's a bottomless pit of gulpability. This Muslim problem is one that won't go away unless Islam as a whole is willing to reform.

Most apologistic analysts refute a few-bad-apples-spoil-the-batch argument, but also not applicable are the bronytastic claims that Islam as a whole is powerless to prevent such savagery from arising in its name.

We just an historic shift from the Obama administration to have the State Dept. actually declare what the rest of the world has know for awhile- that ISIS is committing genocide against Christians. The End Times appear to upon us. It's easy to envision the Biblical prophecy of Jews fighting across the river Jordan; ISIS or the next incarnation of evil that Satan summons are on track to bring a thousand years of war and famine and torture and sodomy and hopelessness to the world. I wish I could believe in the Rapture like some of my fundamentalist brethren, but it feels like an unrealistic fantasy. The war will be the last one fought on Earth, and Christians will steadily lose, until such time as they win with the return of JESUS.

Peacefully, I know Muslims as a vast majority, and not to be blamed for this crisis. They are not aligned with the World Government, being unable to work such complex mechanisms as diplomacy, capitalism, peacebuilding and technology (specifically the black helicopters and wire taps that are used to spy on our underground. As they worship the same God as do I, in principle, it proves they are at least somewhat reasonable.

I will bet an entire crate of Peach Scnaps that the next terror attack will be committed by a radical Islamist crazyhorse, and fears of potential Islamophia will be promoted as more pressing concern than actual bring these people night!

I agree that the Islamic religious faithful could do a lot more to bring these radicalised extremists into line or have them handed over to authorities.

The problem I believe is that most moderate Islamic Muslim people will willingly ignore what is going on, often because to speak out against another Muslim would be seen by many within their Islamic community as being blasphemous against Islamic belief, Muhammad and Allah.

Jihad under any interpretation is a major Islamic principle and often translated as holy war and designated as the sixth pillar of Islam. For Islamic Muslims to hand over members to the authorities or prevent these members for carrying out their planed actions could cost them dearly because we know what extreme measures mean under Sharia law, those who insult Muhammad or Allah are to be executed.

It is a situation of a strict adherence to Sharia laws and is enforced by their own communities often overseen by the few self-imposed extremist religious male leaders that always hold the authority and position allowable to punish anyone who steps out of line.

 

[Crypto2015]

Both the European Union and the US have Muslims in their intelligence services, nuclear plants, police forces, armed forces, etc. Since the EU and the US see no link between Islam and terrorism, they will continue to be infiltrated at all levels. Because of it, the biggest terrorist attacks are yet to come.

 

[godnotgod]

I guess it boils down to the fact that no indoctrinated and radicalised terrorist has the same underlying motives that provide the trigger for them to want to murder innocent people.

The furthest state of mind many people get to is indoctrination.

The state of mind I believe is behind radicalisation is triggered by an emotional event causing irrational thoughts that often manifest in uncharacteristic behaviour such as what comes from an intense feeling of hatred towards someone that has often gone so far as manslaughter or murder charges.

The difference being most of us get over this erratic state of mind but these terrorists and many murderers were and always will be mentally more unstable than normal and always will be prone to this condition.

This however does not exempt them from their responsibilities because they knew right from wrong before they allowed these events to consume them, unless of course the science conclusively finds otherwise or a psychological answer for indoctrination and the unstable mind.

However, two things:

Their religious doctrine fuels, for them, the 'legitimate' killing of whomever they consider to be 'the infidel', so they are still thinking in terms of 'right vs wrong', and...

In general, they have sworn the destruction of Western civilizations, partly as retaliation for invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

For the most part, the current (last 10 years or so) kinds of attacks were non-existent prior to 9-11 and the subsequent invasions and occupations of those lands.

So what I'm saying is that their transformation is not purely a psychological/emotional one, but triggered by what they consider to be a foreign invader and occupier. bin Laden stated as much prior to the 9-11 attacks. So the motives are twofold: religious and political, the killings being legitimized via religious doctrine. They tend to see Western type civilizations as corrupt and want to return to an earlier historical framework.

 

[godnotgod]

No one invaded these people's lands. Remember too, that Belgium was against the Iraq war and was part of the nations that condemned the invasion. There was no legitimate reason, they just wanted to murder innocent civilians. It wasn't revenge. Nothing they did, helped any civilians anywhere and they probably knew this.

Their jihad is worldwide against all civilized societies.

Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded and occupied.

 

[godnotgod]

They have powerful egos, but they are seriously deficient in brains.

We must admit, however, that their very clever strategy used in the 9-11 attacks was unprecedented and the epitome of surprise attack.

 

[godnotgod]

Both the European Union and the US have Muslims in their intelligence services, nuclear plants, police forces, armed forces, etc. Since the EU and the US see no link between Islam and terrorism, they will continue to be infiltrated at all levels. Because of it, the biggest terrorist attacks are yet to come.

But they know that such high profile targets are being watched much more closely than ever before. I believe they will begin to concentrate on soft targets which will be true terrorism rather than just attacks. For example, I think they will at some point begin to bomb schools, libraries, gas stations, supermarkets, etc. in coordinated/synchronized attacks across civilized countries. This will bring real terrorism at low cost, since people will be afraid to shop, send children to school, etc. But besides these kinds of targets, they will continue to bomb public places and events as they have been.

The bombing of nuclear power plants and other high profile facilities are much harder to pull off, but your point about Muslim presence within them is well taken.

 

[godnotgod]

I don't believe that a military approach can solve this problem, but can only make it worse. Perhaps there is no solution at all. The only chance for the ending of hostilities would be one involving cultural exchange. We must begin to respect their religion and way of life. But this would take years to achieve only to return to square one. In general, the US and China must curtail the voracious exploitation of foreign lands, which, for the most part, are third world countries. This means we have to make drastic changes in our lifestyles and rates of consumption. It all boils down to resources. Either we learn to share and nurture on the one Household Earth, or choke to death on our own selfishness and greed.

I think we need to shift our thinking from: "What do we need to do about the problem with THOSE people?", to: "What is it about the way we do things in the world that gives rise to terrorism?", eg: favoritism of Israel via military funding while they continue to build on the West Bank; the exploitation of Mexico via NAFTA; etc, etc.

Certainly Muslim countries have their own internal problems, such as the maltreatment of women, but that cat is now out of the bag, and the solution should come from within.

 

[godnotgod]

The war will be the last one fought on Earth, and Christians will steadily lose, until such time as they win with the return of JESUS.

This is the problem: both factions think they will win, they with 'God is Great' Allah and Christians with their conquering general, Jesus. Both are systematically insane and threaten the rest of us with their religiously motivated machinations. Maybe we need a strong world government to impose a strict Separation of Church and State policy across the board, and severely limit what organized religions can and cannot do in public places and on the government dime.