Kartari
Active Member
Hi George-ananda,
Whereas reincarnation posits a permanent or fixed essence or soul of some kind which transmigrates from lifetime to lifetime, rebirth in Buddhism posits that there is no permanent or fixed essence or soul. Rather, what persists from lifetime to lifetime are the effects of karma. As this BDEA page on Rebirth puts it:
"...I would like to distinguish rebirth from transmigration. You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. We do not believe in a self that is reborn. This is why when we explain rebirth, we make use of examples which do not require the transmigration of an essence or a substance. For example, when a sprout is born from a seed, there is no substance that transmigrates. The seed and the sprout are not identical. Similarly, when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is a continuity, the energy and direction of the first ball is imparted to the second. It is the cause of the second billiard ball moving in a particular direction and at a particular speed. When we step twice into a river, it is not the same river and yet there is continuity, the continuity of cause and effect. So there is rebirth, but not transmigration. There is moral responsibility, but not an independent, permanent self. There is the continuity of cause and effect, but not permanence..."
Though I am a skeptical person myself, I agree with you. Rebirth may not posit a soul exactly, but Buddhism more broadly has always included certain supernatural beliefs. Buddhism has long been a lot more religious an umbrella of traditions than some modern Buddhists in the west. While this is not the case for all westerners (depends on which sect), some of the earliest European translators and proponents of Buddhism from the 19th century gave the religion a lasting and more secular spin, in fact. Colonel Olcott for instance, who was the son of a Protestant minister and one of the founders of the Theosophical Society, was instrumental in bringing more visibility to Buddhism to the west. But in trying to make the religion less offensive to the Christian orthodoxy, he regarded Buddhism's "superstitious" elements as inauthentic, emphasizing its self-reliant and more pragmatic practices. This has certainly shaped modern Buddhism in the west. But then again, a study of the history of Buddhism shows us a history of adaptability to the local cultures it takes root in. Which is probably apparent in the study of all religions of the world, though Buddhism has shown particular flexibility.
What do you see other major Buddhist tradition's understanding of 'rebirth' to be? It appears to me it is really similar to reincarnation but vaguer on just what it is that 'rebirths'. In my beliefs what rebirths is a temporary subtle body that exists for many lifetimes until Nirvana/Moksha/Liberation. This I believe is neither confirmed nor denied exactly by the larger Buddhist schools which imply something continues (without providing details).
Whereas reincarnation posits a permanent or fixed essence or soul of some kind which transmigrates from lifetime to lifetime, rebirth in Buddhism posits that there is no permanent or fixed essence or soul. Rather, what persists from lifetime to lifetime are the effects of karma. As this BDEA page on Rebirth puts it:
"...I would like to distinguish rebirth from transmigration. You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. We do not believe in a self that is reborn. This is why when we explain rebirth, we make use of examples which do not require the transmigration of an essence or a substance. For example, when a sprout is born from a seed, there is no substance that transmigrates. The seed and the sprout are not identical. Similarly, when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is a continuity, the energy and direction of the first ball is imparted to the second. It is the cause of the second billiard ball moving in a particular direction and at a particular speed. When we step twice into a river, it is not the same river and yet there is continuity, the continuity of cause and effect. So there is rebirth, but not transmigration. There is moral responsibility, but not an independent, permanent self. There is the continuity of cause and effect, but not permanence..."
My original involvement in this thread was to point out that the concept of 'rebirth' in the major schools/sects of Buddhism conflict with the materialist concept of death (annihilation). On this forum it seems the predominant belief of the Buddhists is really Buddhism+Materialism.
Though I am a skeptical person myself, I agree with you. Rebirth may not posit a soul exactly, but Buddhism more broadly has always included certain supernatural beliefs. Buddhism has long been a lot more religious an umbrella of traditions than some modern Buddhists in the west. While this is not the case for all westerners (depends on which sect), some of the earliest European translators and proponents of Buddhism from the 19th century gave the religion a lasting and more secular spin, in fact. Colonel Olcott for instance, who was the son of a Protestant minister and one of the founders of the Theosophical Society, was instrumental in bringing more visibility to Buddhism to the west. But in trying to make the religion less offensive to the Christian orthodoxy, he regarded Buddhism's "superstitious" elements as inauthentic, emphasizing its self-reliant and more pragmatic practices. This has certainly shaped modern Buddhism in the west. But then again, a study of the history of Buddhism shows us a history of adaptability to the local cultures it takes root in. Which is probably apparent in the study of all religions of the world, though Buddhism has shown particular flexibility.
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