Businesses Requiring Vaccine Passports

[Unveiled Artist]

Except that anyone could have the virus and not know it because asymptomatic infection and transmission are a thing:

1 in 5 COVID-19 Cases Are Asymptomatic but Can Spread the Disease

No one says you're wrong.

It's based on the situation

1. Are you around people?
2. Are you at high risk?
3. Do you have symptoms?
4. What is your level of "concern?"
5. Is it fear?

Of course people "could" be asymptomatic but we just. don't know.

Safe than sorry is a good motivator to take the vaccine but it shouldn't be a motivator to judge others who do not.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Easy, as I just said, unvaccinated people are a health risk to others. One has a right to put one's own health at risk, one does not have a right to put the health of others at risk.

During transition time or period of vaccination that would come across as sensible and valid.

After awhile however, once everyone has been offered the vaccine with the option to take or not to take, then that would be crossing a line.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Where has this happened?

At its height in December 1 in 8 hospitals had little to no ICU space.
COVID, ICU capacity: 1 in 8 US hospitals out of intensive care space
Some advanced covid patients were sent home because there was nowhere to put them.
Extended lung, heart and nervous damage from covid kept patients in the ICU on limited ventilation machines and medicine for weeks at a time even if they didn't die.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm done trying to reason with you. Either you change the goalposts or you keep missing the same points over and over.

I just hope your poorly reasoned beliefs on this and the obstinate refusal to reconsider your position don't end up harming anyone or putting anyone at risk (whether you or someone else).

Have a nice day.

No. I just don't agree that making people take the vaccine means the other is selfish is they dont take it. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm changing the goalposts. Repeating my statements in different format, yes... but it doesn't seem like you get

I'm not saying you're wrong about science, just that you're wrong about spreading the virus by perceived risk of having it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What do I want? I want people to start using some logic because this isn't making much sense at all. Since when have we enacted such strict measures, that basically put much of the global population under house arrest over a disease that isn't severe or fetal for the vast majority of the population, if they ever get it? What are we going to do with the damage from all the homicides, suicides, soaring rates of substance abuse, the horrible impact of the lockdowns on children and young people? The murder and gun violence rate in the US has been soaring since last summer. This year may have the most murders on record of the rate continues in my city, according to the news.

There haven't been many pandemics throughout the last century that have overwhelmed health systems globally to this extent. While it's true that the virus isn't fatal to the majority of people, 3% to 5% (on average; the fatality rate is much higher with age and pre-existing conditions, as you probably know) is extremely high when you consider how infectious it is. 3% of 100m is 3m people, and that's without even taking into account the higher fatality rate for a subset of the population.

3m is more deaths than there were in a lot of wars throughout history. It's a significant number and enough cause for concern for anyone who respects human life and considers the fact that for every death, there are resultant grief and other consequences for many of those who have lost someone during the pandemic.

Many more people will likely die from the lockdowns than from Covid, when this is over. I'm just not a fan of authoritarianism. I'm not getting the vaccine, regardless, because I don't trust it and don't want it in my body. If others want to get it so badly, they are welcome to. I just go to work and stay home, anyway.

The highlighted claim is pure speculation; there is no evidence substantiating this. On the other hand, we have statistics and evidence showing how many people have actually died from the virus as well as the fact that medical systems have become overwhelmed in many countries.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I appreciate your effort at reasoning, but one thing I have learned on forums is that you cannot reason with people who believe they know everything. It's just not possible because ego gets in the way.

Yeah. You know I closed my computer down, checked my phone, and brought it back up again. It's 1:06 am here. But really, I wish this mask/vaccine argument from pro-people would stop. I never said they were wrong about science just perceived risk is based on fear, you can't spread something you don't have, and taking the vaccine should be based on one's circumstance.

Shrugs. Thank you, though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Vaccines do diddly if a large enough percentage of a population won't take them, because the virus has ample opportunity to mutate in unresistant bodies into vaccine resistant strains and then the pandemic starts all over again, except now with a harder to treat version which may be more infectious and more deadly.

It does make me wonder how people just cannot see their choices in this effect more than them. And if something this contagious mutates to become vaccine resistant and as deadly as something like ebola, we are all very seriously in grave danger.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It does make me wonder how people just cannot see their choices in this effect more than them. And if something this contagious mutates to become vaccine resistant and as deadly as something like ebola, we are all very seriously in grave danger.

The idea that the population at large can be trusted to do the responsible thing has long struck me as both overly idealistic and demonstrably incorrect. Why do we have laws against murder if the population in general could be trusted not to do the irresponsible thing and commit it? And murder is far higher up on the scale of harmful behaviors than refusal of vaccination.

Sometimes people selectively overestimate the reliability of the masses' judgment, which, while occasionally understandable, is mistaken all the same.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If we don't want the vaccine, we're accepting whatever risk there is.

People have been saying that all along and it's lead to multiple strains, overran hospitals, crisis care in hospitals, and there has been a need for refrigerator trucks and ice rinks to act as temporary morgues because funeral homes and crematories cannot keep up.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, they are comparable. Things no one in their reasonable mind would do, even though the consequences are not assured.

Yeah. It's not wrong until the same people tell others they are ignorant for not doing what they do. I don't have issues with people taking the vaccine. I get it. I just think it's by circumstance. But I do say those are fear statements...maybe comparable too.

500,000 dead plus all the chronically ill, yes, I would rather be safe than sorry. That's why I also quit smoking.

That makes sense. I'd agree with you if I were in your shoes. Since everyone's situation is different, I wouldn't expect the vaccine would be appropriate for all people.

Do you eat well and exercise? It's not guaranteed to work, and it is a better safe than sorry.

Of course not. Though, unless I was in a high risk area for the illness and high risk factor, I'd go into anxiety if I kept thinking I should be safe than sorry. But yes, I do exercise and started eating well. It's best to just take things as they come.

People have been doing a lot of it for the past 16 months or so. So much, in fact, there are now a variety of strains.

Yeah. I don't keep up. I rather be concerned with things I can handle at the moment here in my environment. If I got myself up wound into what's happening around the world, I'd make myself sick. Unless it's a plague, I'm pretty much staying neutral over the whole thing. Masks are irritating but this vaccine argument is totally inappropriate, for lack of a better word.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Though, unless I was in a high risk area for the illness and high risk factor

The problem with that, you aren't in those groups but it's basically a virus Russian Roulette what it will do to you. And the fatigue is super nasty, I hear.

But I do say those are fear statements...maybe comparable too.

Being reasonable is not fear. Its no more fear than keeping some extra water, non perishables, candles, batteries, and FM radio for emergencies.

Yeah. I don't keep up.

Believe me, this entire past year we've been able to tell.

 

[Trailblazer]

Being reasonable is not fear. Its no more fear than keeping some extra water, non perishables, candles, batteries, and FM radio for emergencies.

What is reasonable for some people is not always reasonable for others because our life situations are all so different.
That is the problem with using the word reasonable.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is reasonable for some people is not always reasonable for others because our life situations are all so different.
That is the problem with using the word reasonable.

Somethings it doesn't change. Like the things I mentioned, those are things everyone should have on hand if there is an emergency. Of course it can be better tailored to suit specific needs and environments, but it's still going to have the same basics.
Health is largely the same way. And as I ask my mom, what do you plan on doing once the distancing is over and the masks come off?

 

[Batya]

It doesn't infringe on the right of a person to get vaccinated or not. It just opens up the right of businesses to open earlier without endangering public health.

Ultimately, yes, a person always has the right to not get vaccinated, though it might mean losing their job, being unable to visit family members (in nursing homes, for example), go to school/college, and eventually being unable to go to stores to buy food and other necessities (I can imagine most stores falling in line due to either concern of the virus, or in response to the nice incentives and perks offered by doing so). Those who choose not to get vaccinated will simply become 2nd class citizens. Because it will, I'm certain, eventually become mandatory.
The government is conveniently able to use the businesses to advance their agenda, many are willing to go along and make this mandatory for their stores (and here in the US, only a few large chain stores would need to do this to make a huge impact), and some of those who aren't willing will eventually give in. What will happen to those few holdouts? Why, it's contrary to the common good, their right to choose for themselves is endangering public health and is outweighed by the collective welfare of the people. Goodbye choice and individual rights.
And honestly, I'm not a "don't tread on me" type, I fully believe we should be law-abiding citizens. I just think there's something more going on here. And in any case, no one has any business telling you what you need to put in your body.

 

[Secret Chief]

I've got one too, seems to be standard practice afaik. Making photocopies in case I misplace mine as well.

I've got a photo of it on my phone.

 

[Subduction Zone]

During transition time or period of vaccination that would come across as sensible and valid.

After awhile however, once everyone has been offered the vaccine with the option to take or not to take, then that would be crossing a line.

Even after that. We do tend to protect people from their own ignorance as much as possible. Even if only antivaxers were hurt, which is never the case, we still need to protect antivaxers from other anti a ers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is reasonable for some people is not always reasonable for others because our life situations are all so different.
That is the problem with using the word reasonable.

You have not given any reasonable reasons that you should be exempt. An unreasonable fear is never reasonable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can they put people at risk who are vaccinated of the vaccines offer offer almost 100% protection?

Almost. Plus they are putting their fellows at risk. Even if they agree they still do not get to put others at risk.

This disease is like smallpox, but not as deadly. When I was young there was no question about getting the vaccination. And guess what happened? A disease that had been around for all known history was eliminated. Made extinct. You and others like you would keep it alive waiting for the next successful mutation and corresponding outbreak. If you want to put everyone else at risk then there will be a price to pay.

 

[Heyo]

Ultimately, yes, a person always has the right to not get vaccinated, though it might mean losing their job, being unable to visit family members (in nursing homes, for example), go to school/college, and eventually being unable to go to stores to buy food and other necessities (I can imagine most stores falling in line due to either concern of the virus, or in response to the nice incentives and perks offered by doing so). Those who choose not to get vaccinated will simply become 2nd class citizens. Because it will, I'm certain, eventually become mandatory.
The government is conveniently able to use the businesses to advance their agenda, many are willing to go along and make this mandatory for their stores (and here in the US, only a few large chain stores would need to do this to make a huge impact), and some of those who aren't willing will eventually give in. What will happen to those few holdouts? Why, it's contrary to the common good, their right to choose for themselves is endangering public health and is outweighed by the collective welfare of the people. Goodbye choice and individual rights.
And honestly, I'm not a "don't tread on me" type, I fully believe we should be law-abiding citizens. I just think there's something more going on here. And in any case, no one has any business telling you what you need to put in your body.

As well as our government has dealt with the pandemic in the beginning, as much have they botched the vaccination. We are far away from having the option to get vaccinated. But we will have to show negative test results to get into restaurants or theatres. That could be an alternative for those who cant or wont get vaccinated. And some day the pandemic will be over.

 

[Audie]

I just found out today that I am now eligible in my state. They lowered the bar to anyone over 60 years old along with other loosening of limitations.

And locally there are quite a few "persons of color" in the medical profession. When it comes to those that can give injections there are quite a few Asians, in fact a surprisingly large percentage. Do Asians count as being a person of color? My current care giver is Asian by the way, From India by her looks, though she could be from any surrounding countries.

Call me a "person of colour" and see ifn it gets ya a knuckle sammich. Ya swab.