"...but intelligent people believe in God" Analysis, Discussion, and Debate

[Willamena]

The "ridiculous claim" in the OP is that there is an objective reality.

 

[wizanda]

NDEs are explained by science.

Yeah, just read Dr Eben Alexanders book to cross reference experiences, found it informative and scientific.

As for NASA findings on gravity, in critical G situations, the person can become disconcerted, and their lines of thought can become confused.

Within NDE accounts, there is a normal progression of events, that often is a clear path of understanding....

There is a french anesthetist who wrote a book about it, as it shocked him so much that there were so many people with similar accounts of this progression.

I said natural pantheism, not pantheism in general.

Even still natural-pantheism is like Taoism, having seen this first hand, the logic that stems from the CPU, projects mathematical perfection, this is similar to what Lao Tzu is hinting at within the myriad of things made in nature from the Tao.

So I guess you think that atheist physicists do not exist?

Of course they exist, maybe just in a parallel universe...

There is a great lecture somewhere with Neil Degrasse Tyson explaining how lower level educated people become atheist; whereas some of the revolutionary thinkers are left questioning if there is some form of Singularity.

Also like how he questioned the holographic universe theory, which is then the same CPU idea.

Plus even Stephen Hawkins questions if there is black-holes, there is in theory a mathematical principle for white-holes.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I would like to see people of a variety of viewpoints analyze and discuss this video by DarkMatter2525.

All true. But if you don't define was the Ridiculous Claim is, or what the Truth is (or could possibly be), it renders the video hollow.

Samples of ridiculous claims:
My religion's revealed God exists.
A hand's off God exists.
God doesn't exist.

You can dismiss the first one by exposing the fact that the only thing supporting it is massive amounts of ancient hearsay and nothing else.

The other two can be made to be a rationally possible Truth by amending them to say "may exist".

We mustn't get so busy exposing ridiculous statements that we forget to rationally study what the Truth actually is or might be--which just happens to be the best rational argument against ridiculousness. And for those who insist on the easy comfort of blind faith, we just have to realize that there will always be evil, even by the well meaning.

 

[columbus]

The "ridiculous claim" in the OP is that there is an objective reality.

Really, it's more the religious claim that objective reality can be gotten from people and experiences indistinguishable from hallucinations.
Like Muhammad, Saul/Paul, and Moses. That sort of experience, brought down through the ages by people that the video describes.
Intelligent people, like Marcus.
Tom

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Of course they exist, maybe just in a parallel universe...

There is a great lecture somewhere with Neil Degrasse Tyson explaining how lower level educated people become atheist; whereas some of the revolutionary thinkers are left questioning if there is some form of Singularity.

I am out.

You obviously have massive confirmation bias and/or have never looked up any actual studies on the topic.

If you want to have an actual debate when you have overcame confirmation bias we can.

I went through most of my life with massive confirmation bias maybe I can help you understand since I get where you are coming from.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

All true. But if you don't define was the Ridiculous Claim is, or what the Truth is (or could possibly be), it renders the video hollow.

Samples of ridiculous claims:
My religion's revealed God exists.
A hand's off God exists.
God doesn't exist.

You can dismiss the first one by exposing the fact that the only thing supporting it is massive amounts of ancient hearsay and nothing else.

The other two can be made to be a rationally possible Truth by amending them to say "may exist".

We mustn't get so busy exposing ridiculous statements that we forget to rationally study what the Truth actually is or might be--which just happens to be the best rational argument against ridiculousness. And for those who insist on the easy comfort of blind faith, we just have to realize that there will always be evil, even by the well meaning.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I and I know DarkMatter2525 recognize that a deistic god could very exist.

But since a deistic deity is not necessary to explain the universe and has no evidence for it's existence I do not believe in one.

It's definitely a possibility though.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

The "ridiculous claim" in the OP is that there is an objective reality.

How is that ridiculous, at least concerning the natural, rational universe. Yes, art is completely subjective, while love and justice combine the two, but they are all mental constructs, which the universe is not. A required observer thought to have been shown by the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, are going the way of the flat earth.

 

[wizanda]

I went through most of my life with massive confirmation bias maybe I can help you understand since I get where you are coming from.

Love noticing contradictions in thinking, so feel free to explain.

have never looked up any actual studies on the topic.

Are you kidding, I've spent last 13 years online watching all sorts; love Christopher Hitchens (RIP), and watched multiple debates of his, etc.

Also I've got no bias towards any religion, Atheists are free to believe what they want; like the faith some show, that their willing to challenge everyone's convictions, for the sake of what they believe.

 

[Willamena]

Really, it's more the religious claim that objective reality can be gotten from people and experiences indistinguishable from hallucinations.
Like Muhammad, Saul/Paul, and Moses. That sort of experience, brought down through the ages by people that the video describes.
Intelligent people, like Marcus.
Tom

But it works just as well for the claim I substitute.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Love noticing contradictions in thinking, so feel free to explain.

Are you kidding, I've spent last 13 years online watching all sorts; love Christopher Hitchens (RIP), and watched multiple debates of his, etc.

Also I've got no bias towards any religion, Atheists are free to believe what they want; like the faith some show, that their willing to challenge everyone's convictions, for the sake of what they believe.

Atheism is not a religion.

 

[Willamena]

How is that ridiculous, at least concerning the natural, rational universe. Yes, art is completely subjective, while love and justice combine the two, but they are all mental constructs, which the universe is not. A required observer thought to have been shown by the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, are going the way of the flat earth.

Art is not completely subjective. Nothing is, nothing can be since "subjective" engenders "objective," and vice-versa.

It was just one "ridiculous claim" substituted for another to show that the OP is effective and ineffective at the same time.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Art is not completely subjective. Nothing is, nothing can be since "subjective" engenders "objective," and vice-versa.

It was just one "ridiculous claim" substituted for another to show that the OP is effective and ineffective at the same time.

Define objective and subjective please as I have the sneaking suspicion you are changing the definitions of the words in the same discussion.

 

[columbus]

But it works just as well for the claim I substitute.

Which wasn't made in the video. "The "ridiculous claim" in the OP is that there is an objective reality." was something you added, not something Darkmatter2525 claimed.
Tom

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

But it works just as well for the claim I substitute.

Do people kill people just because they do not believe in objective reality?

 

[wizanda]

Atheism is not a religion.

A group of people with a fundamental belief is a religion; why Jedi has been made an official religion in the UK.

 

[Willamena]

Define objective and subjective please as I have the sneaking suspicion you are changing the definitions of the words in the same discussion.

"Objective" is independent of mind, being personal feelings or opinions, which of course engenders its opposite (i.e. you can't have lack without something to lack). Naturally, it refers to a means of communicating ideas. "Subjective" is the opposite, meaning to be populated by feelings and opinions.

 

[columbus]

Atheism is not a religion.

It's almost impossible to talk to theists. They think that because they are the Official Spokesman for God they can also read minds. So they will tell you what you Believe, even after you have said something else.
Tom

 

[Willamena]

Do people kill people just because they do not believe in objective reality?

Some do.

But that's neither here nor there.

 

[columbus]

A group of people with a fundamental belief is a religion; why Jedi has been made an official religion in the UK.

And since nontheists don't have one they aren't a religion.
Right?
Thanks.
Regards.
Tom

 

[wizanda]

And since nontheists don't have one they aren't a religion.

Well this all depends on the scale, there are atheist which have a complete lack of belief; then there are antitheist that are outspoken on their beliefs, often quoting similar dogma, and congregating in groups.