By Faith. Why?

[shunyadragon]

As l suspected, even an historian who went to great lengths to provide an accurate and reliable history of the Jews gets trashed by you!

The nature and extent of the writings of Josephus has been documented by historians not me. Again there are no original complete texts of Josephus writings.

See: Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

So, according to your definition of 'documentary evidence' the Bible is without any reliable evidence. Despite all the chronicles kept of the kings of lsrael and Judah, it's all unreliable. Why? Because we don't have the DNA of the man who wrote it down!

I never said that the Bible is without reliable evidence. Please reread my posts and respond to what I said.

What an absolute load of nonsense.

Failure to respond. reread and respond coherently

The Bible is not an 'accurate' representation of the historical events. There is no evidence that those who compiled, edited and redacted the texts were witnesses to the events. There are no otiginal documents that date to the time they were claimed to have been written. There is evidence that those eho compiled, edited and redacted te books of the Bible used third hand evidence, earlier documents, oral testimony, and other sources to Create the text.

As defined in a previous post, the Bible cannot be used in in a court of law to support the the recorded events and religious claims as true. The courts of law require documentation of original authors, objective outside evidence as to the events described and provenance as to the time they were written. This is lacking in one way ot another in all the books of the Bible, Yes, 'some' events, people and places can be documented by outside 'documentary evidence' such as archaeology, but the Bible does not meet this criteria.

The Books of Genesis and Exodus are probably the worst documented books of the Bible, and based for the most part on mythology and
third hand creating of records of events with no documentation. In fact they are in conflict with known archaeology and geologic history.

By the way the historical records of Josephus concerning the life of Jesus are third hand told to him by later believers, and his historical records contain numerous errors. There are no complete original historical records writen by Josephus, Historians consider the references to Jesus tp be possible added or altered from the original text.

We would have no history of the ancient world based on the principles you apply. Archaeology on its own tells us very little. It's the 'documentary evidence' from written sources that supplies the detail and narrative.

Not true, Archaeology is the foundation test of the reliability of much of ancient texts and scriptures. Virtually all ancient texts before about 200 AD lack provenance in and of themselves in ALL ancient religions,

You continue to fail yo respond to the problems of the claims of Genesis and Exodus as accurate historical accounts.

 

[2ndpillar]

Sorry, but that is likely just a myth in the Bible. And abortions are not "sacrifices" to Bel or any other deity. Is that the best that you can do? If so then Exodus 21 22, the pre-Roe V Wade translation refutes you. So does the Test of an Unfaithful Wife. You have Hebrew priests performing chemical abortions in that particular passage.

Abortions would be a sacrifice to the god of Mammon, the face of Bel, the god of the sun, as with Sol Invictus, the god of Constantine, and his Gentile church, and their emphasis on the physical, as best taught by the Televangelist, and the main part of the sermon of the Catholic churches, with their emphasis on receiving their tithes. As for your "sovereign citizen" type of making up their own statutes, Exodus 21:22 is about a "miscarriage" by way of a husband hitting his wife, and it is Numbers 5:11 which is about a woman swearing a curse against herself if she committed adultery, and drinking some dust from the ground mixed with water, and if she lied, she would be a curse among her people and her "thigh" will waste away. Like most "sovereign citizens", who make up their own laws, and misquote constitutional and state laws, they will ultimately have their windows broken and their being hauled off to jail (cast into the furnace of fire) by the po po (angels). I don't know, it seems like the "sovereign citizens", you are getting your bad data from the internet.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Abortions would be a sacrifice to the god of Mammon, the face of Bel, the god of the sun, as with Sol Invictus, the god of Constantine, and his Gentile church, and their emphasis on the physical, as best taught by the Televangelist, and the main part of the sermon of the Catholic churches, with their emphasis on receiving their tithes. As for your "sovereign citizen" type of making up their own statutes, Exodus 21:22 is about a "miscarriage" by way of a husband hitting his wife, and it is Numbers 5:11 which is about a woman swearing a curse against herself if she committed adultery, and drinking some dust from the ground mixed with water, and if she lied, she would be a curse among her people and her "thigh" will waste away. Like most "sovereign citizens", who make up their own laws, and misquote constitutional and state laws, they will ultimately have their windows broken and their being hauled off to jail (cast into the furnace of fire) by the po po (angels). I don't know, it seems like the "sovereign citizens", you are getting your bad data from the internet.

Nope. You haven't talked to too many women that had abortions now, have you.

By the way, why bring up sovereign citizens? Most of them that I have seen claim to follow "God's Law". That would make them more like you than like me.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The nature and extent of the writings of Josephus has been documented by historians not me. Again there are no original complete texts of Josephus writings.

See: Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia




I never said that the Bible is without reliable evidence. Please reread my posts and respond to what I said.



Failure to respond. reread and respond coherently

The Bible is not an 'accurate' representation of the historical events. There is no evidence that those who compiled, edited and redacted the texts were witnesses to the events. There are no otiginal documents that date to the time they were claimed to have been written. There is evidence that those eho compiled, edited and redacted te books of the Bible used third hand evidence, earlier documents, oral testimony, and other sources to Create the text.

As defined in a previous post, the Bible cannot be used in in a court of law to support the the recorded events and religious claims as true. The courts of law require documentation of original authors, objective outside evidence as to the events described and provenance as to the time they were written. This is lacking in one way ot another in all the books of the Bible, Yes, 'some' events, people and places can be documented by outside 'documentary evidence' such as archaeology, but the Bible does not meet this criteria.

The Books of Genesis and Exodus are probably the worst documented books of the Bible, and based for the most part on mythology and
third hand creating of records of events with no documentation. In fact they are in conflict with known archaeology and geologic history.

By the way the historical records of Josephus concerning the life of Jesus are third hand told to him by later believers, and his historical records contain numerous errors. There are no complete original historical records writen by Josephus, Historians consider the references to Jesus tp be possible added or altered from the original text.





Not true, Archaeology is the foundation test of the reliability of much of ancient texts and scriptures. Virtually all ancient texts before about 200 AD lack provenance in and of themselves in ALL ancient religions,

You continue to fail yo respond to the problems of the claims of Genesis and Exodus as accurate historical accounts.

From my perspective, which accepts Jewish tradition, Moses was the one who revealed the words of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy (despite all that modern sceptics maintain). This makes it a prophetic work, not a work of man.

l find a long list of people who agree that Moses was the prophet responsible for the Torah. Josephus makes this claim ['Antiquities' ch.1, section 2], and writes about Moses as an historical figure. Jesus quotes Moses, and Moses is mentioned by name in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, 2 Timothy, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation.

In the Tanakh, Moses is mentioned, outside the Torah in Joshua, Judges, 1 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Psalms, lsaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Micah, and Malachi.

Most scholars agree that there must have been at least 40 prophets involved in the writing of scripture. It seems that nearly all knew about Moses as a prophet. Their corroborative evidence must mean something.

Nor am l sure if it really matters if we don't know all the names of the prophets who wrote the scriptures. What matters is the integrity of the words they write, and whether those words prove to be consistent with the message that is revealed by many (lsraelite) prophets over the centuries.

The conclusion l reach is that it is only possible to determine whether the Bible is prophecy by studying the text. This means studying a Bible that is based on the Masoretic Hebrew text of the Tanakh, and the received Greek text of the NT.

 

[2ndpillar]

Nope. You haven't talked to too many women that had abortions now, have you.

By the way, why bring up sovereign citizens? Most of them that I have seen claim to follow "God's Law". That would make them more like you than like me.

What men claim, and what they do, is two different things. The "sovereigns" take existing laws and misquote their source and court approved meanings, and twist them to fit their will, so that they don't pay the government what actual "free men" voted for with regards to the laws. They also claim to be traveling in the personal conveyance and not driving a vehicle, or that they own the land from before the Pilgrims and are appropriating the owner's property by making a series of false claims. According to one study I saw, almost 50% of US women have had at least one abortion. I am skeptical of that claim, but I deal with a lot of women, and none of them have claimed to me of having an abortion, probably because they would be ashamed to do so, excluding of course the blue haired girls, with tattoos and rings in their noses, not knowing what gender they are, and screaming on media they have had abortions. They seem to have many problems including gender dysphoria. But that appears to be the life of a typical Progressive follower with the making drugs lawful locally, their only brief success, which makes their slide into the abyss a quicker ride. To follow God's laws, you would have to know them. I think you have shown that maybe you don't know them as much as you think as exampled by your inaccurate quote from Exodus 21. But this is a free country, and to each his own, of course, it must conform to the law.

 

[2ndpillar]

Not true, Archaeology is the foundation test of the reliability of much of ancient texts and scriptures. Virtually all ancient texts before about 200 AD lack provenance in and of themselves in ALL ancient religions,

The silver scroll found recently in a tomb in Jerusalem, which quotes from the Torah along with the name "YHWH, is dated around the time of Jeremiah, in 700 A.D. The dogmas of "archaeology" change with the weather. Where and when American Indians came from and when, changes by the minute. Is it based on arrow head designs which came from Spain and France, or does it trace back to Siberia, with 11,000 year old bones of two children found buried under a pit fire site in Alaska, with DNA connection to Siberia and American Indians. Or like the DNA of the Blackfoot male of Montana, does it trace back 18000 years to Polynesia, Siberia, and France. Was his grandfather a trader, who traveled the exposed coastline from France to Northeast America, or came across the land bridge from Siberia, or up the coast from Polynesia through Siberia, or by canoe to south America, or were his fathers a combination of all of the above? Maybe they should do a DNA analysis of the South American flat head Indians, whose heads match those of central Asia. Oh yeah, they did do a DNA analysis. Do you know the results? On the other hand, the LAW and the prophets remain the same, and their truths become more evident every day.

 

[shunyadragon]

The silver scroll found recently in a tomb in Jerusalem, which quotes from the Torah along with the name "YHWH, is dated around the time of Jeremiah, in 700 A.D. The dogmas of "archaeology" change with the weather. Where and when American Indians came from and when, changes by the minute. Is it based on arrow head designs which came from Spain and France, or does it trace back to Siberia, with 11,000 year old bones of two children found buried under a pit fire site in Alaska, with DNA connection to Siberia and American Indians. Or like the DNA of the Blackfoot male of Montana, does it trace back 18000 years to Polynesia, Siberia, and France. Was his grandfather a trader, who traveled the exposed coastline from France to Northeast America, or came across the land bridge from Siberia, or up the coast from Polynesia through Siberia, or by canoe to south America, or were his fathers a combination of all of the above? Maybe they should do a DNA analysis of the South American flat head Indians, whose heads match those of central Asia. Oh yeah, they did do a DNA analysis. Do you know the results? On the other hand, the LAW and the prophets remain the same, and their truths become more evident every day.

Yes, the silver scroll dates the earliest distinct Hebrew language, The Hebrew written language did indeed develop between ~1000 and 700 BCE from Canaanite and Pheionician languages. This quite late in written history that is why Genesis, Exodus and the rest of the Pentateuch cannot be dated any earlier than that,
.
Your description of the archaeology and DNA dating is piecemeal, off subject and confusing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What men claim, and what they do, is two different things. The "sovereigns" take existing laws and misquote their source and court approved meanings, and twist them to fit their will, so that they don't pay the government what actual "free men" voted for with regards to the laws. They also claim to be traveling in the personal conveyance and not driving a vehicle, or that they own the land from before the Pilgrims and are appropriating the owner's property by making a series of false claims. According to one study I saw, almost 50% of US women have had at least one abortion. I am skeptical of that claim, but I deal with a lot of women, and none of them have claimed to me of having an abortion, probably because they would be ashamed to do so, excluding of course the blue haired girls, with tattoos and rings in their noses, not knowing what gender they are, and screaming on media they have had abortions. They seem to have many problems including gender dysphoria. But that appears to be the life of a typical Progressive follower with the making drugs lawful locally, their only brief success, which makes their slide into the abyss a quicker ride. To follow God's laws, you would have to know them. I think you have shown that maybe you don't know them as much as you think as exampled by your inaccurate quote from Exodus 21. But this is a free country, and to each his own, of course, it must conform to the law.

Your statistic sounds as if it was rather dubious. There are almost 200 abortions per 1,000 live births. You are not going to get to 50% with that figure. But you keep forgetting that the Bible is clearly not anti abortion.

And yes, there are some immoral laws in antiabortion states. Not to worry. Those will be changed.

And why do you keep forgetting that the Bible is not antiabortion?

 

[shunyadragon]

From my perspective, which accepts Jewish tradition, Moses was the one who revealed the words of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy (despite all that modern sceptics maintain). This makes it a prophetic work, not a work of man.

l find a long list of people who agree that Moses was the prophet responsible for the Torah. Josephus makes this claim ['Antiquities' ch.1, section 2], and writes about Moses as an historical figure. Jesus quotes Moses, and Moses is mentioned by name in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, 2 Timothy, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation.

In the Tanakh, Moses is mentioned, outside the Torah in Joshua, Judges, 1 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Psalms, lsaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Micah, and Malachi.

Most scholars agree that there must have been at least 40 prophets involved in the writing of scripture. It seems that nearly all knew about Moses as a prophet. Their corroborative evidence must mean something.

Nor am l sure if it really matters if we don't know all the names of the prophets who wrote the scriptures. What matters is the integrity of the words they write, and whether those words prove to be consistent with the message that is revealed by many (lsraelite) prophets over the centuries.

The conclusion l reach is that it is only possible to determine whether the Bible is prophecy by studying the text. This means studying a Bible that is based on the Masoretic Hebrew text of the Tanakh, and the received Greek text of the NT.

The bottomline is yes the Bible does justify itself as an ancient scripture written within itself as a historical narrative of those that believed what they wrote at the time. Josephus was a Jew of the first centruy and like ALL Jews of the time believed that Genesis and Exodus was a literal history and believed Moses was the real author of the Pentateuch.

Careful with 'Most scholars agree' concerning Genesis and Exodus being literally true written by Moses, because it is not true today. Only very conservative Christian scholars still believe this. Archaeology and Geology of the Middle East including the actual Egyptian writings of the time refutes any delusion that the Pentateuch is a historically literal writing by Moses.

There is aboslutely no archaeological evidence for the existence of Moses, and absolutely no texht of the Pentateuch dating before ~700 BCE, and the oldest copies of the Pentateuch date no earlier than the maybe the third to the first century BCE. The Hebrew language did not exist before ~700 RCE.

I do not necessarily question what you believe, but your misuse of the concepts of what is 'objective, subjective and documentary evidence. Other than your belief and faith in the Bible is true as literally written that is the problem.

 

[2ndpillar]

Your statistic sounds as if it was rather dubious. There are almost 200 abortions per 1,000 live births. You are not going to get to 50% with that figure. But you keep forgetting that the Bible is clearly not anti abortion.

And yes, there are some immoral laws in antiabortion states. Not to worry. Those will be changed.

And why do you keep forgetting that the Bible is not antiabortion?

The Scriptures are anti killing (6th Commandment), and especially of children. The sacrificing/killing of children was one of many sins that led Israel into destruction and slavery by Assyria. Even leading children down the wrong path, as in providing stumbling blocks for them, is so bad, that the judgment will be such that it would have been better that the persons involved had not been born (Matthew 18:6-7) or been drowned in the sea. This would also apply to the Progressives who groom children, but in a larger respect to the Gentile churches, who teach Peter as the foundation of the church, but who is a "stumbling block to me" (Matthew 16:23). The laws in red states are moral in nature, although the Progressives are trying to reverse them by attacking Supreme Court justices, which action is illegal, yet was allowed by the current Progressive administration. What comes around, goes around. The survivors of the nations/Gentiles will soon be sold into slavery (Joel 3:8) in the period of the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32).

 

[2ndpillar]

Your description of the archaeology and DNA dating is piecemeal, off subject and confusing.

"Science" in general is "piecemeal", not congruent, and often "confusing", which was my point.

Yes, the silver scroll dates the earliest distinct Hebrew language, The Hebrew written language did indeed develop between ~1000 and 700 BCE from Canaanite and Pheionician languages. This quite late in written history that is why Genesis, Exodus and the rest of the Pentateuch cannot be dated any earlier than that,

Jerusalem of David was dated around 1000 BC. The ark of the covenant, as depicted by the arch of Titus in Rome, confirms the treasures of the Temple, which are identified in the living Scripture prior to the period of David, and housed by David's son Solomon. The contents of the "scriptures", in writing, preceded the building of the Temple. The Israelis were outsiders who were conquerors of the Jebusites (original occupants of Jerusalem), who came from Egypt. Whatever language the Israelis used, it preceded 1000 BC, and as Abraham came from Ur of the land of Mesopotamia, whose language was initially referred to as Akkadian and later devolved into Aramaic, the language of the 1st century Jerusalem. Both Hebrew and Aramaic are written in square script and are somewhat similar with some common words. The reason no earlier copies of the Torah can be found, is that they were generally written on lamb skin or papyrus, of course with the exception of the covenant written on stone, which is not available at this time. The archeology of man is written in DNA and undoes most previous archeological concepts, depending on the underlying data base. What one was taught in college in the 1980s has probably already been debunked to a large degree. Probably more is to come.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Scriptures are anti killing (6th Commandment), and especially of children. The sacrificing/killing of children was one of many sins that led Israel into destruction and slavery by Assyria. Even leading children down the wrong path, as in providing stumbling blocks for them, is so bad, that the judgment will be such that it would have been better that the persons involved had not been born (Matthew 18:6-7) or been drowned in the sea. This would also apply to the Progressives who groom children, but in a larger respect to the Gentile churches, who teach Peter as the foundation of the church, but who is a "stumbling block to me" (Matthew 16:23). The laws in red states are moral in nature, although the Progressives are trying to reverse them by attacking Supreme Court justices, which action is illegal, yet was allowed by the current Progressive administration. What comes around, goes around. The survivors of the nations/Gentiles will soon be sold into slavery (Joel 3:8) in the period of the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32).

Yes, but the Bible does not seem to think that embryos and fetuses count as people. Why do you keep ignoring the verses that show otherwise?

And sorry, but what on Earth do you mean by "Progressives that groom children"? What? Give them haircuts? Cut their fingernails? Is that a bad thing? Also you are close, the laws in red states are of an immoral nature. Slavery is immoral no matter how one frames it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"Science" in general is "piecemeal", not congruent, and often "confusing", which was my point.

It may seem that way to the uneducated. Why would you assume that it is that way for everyone?

Jerusalem of David was dated around 1000 BC. The ark of the covenant, as depicted by the arch of Titus in Rome, confirms the treasures of the Temple, which are identified in the living Scripture prior to the period of David, and housed by David's son Solomon.

What? I just checked. It does not appear to be there. What source makes that claim? In fact if it ever existed, and that is dubious, it appears to have been lost at the start of the Babylonian Exile. The Romans never had it:

Where Is the Ark of the Covenant?

The contents of the "scriptures", in writing, preceded the building of the Temple. The Israelis were outsiders who were conquerors of the Jebusites (original occupants of Jerusalem), who came from Egypt. Whatever language the Israelis used, it preceded 1000 BC, and as Abraham came from Ur of the land of Mesopotamia, whose language was initially referred to as Akkadian and later devolved into Aramaic, the language of the 1st century Jerusalem. Both Hebrew and Aramaic are written in square script and are somewhat similar with some common words. The reason no earlier copies of the Torah can be found, is that they were generally written on lamb skin or papyrus, of course with the exception of the covenant written on stone, which is not available at this time. The archeology of man is written in DNA and undoes most previous archeological concepts, depending on the underlying data base. What one was taught in college in the 1980s has probably already been debunked to a large degree. Probably more is to come.

Sorry, but now you are relying on the Bible for history and it is just not that reliable when you go back that far. Yes, there likely was a David and probably some of his predecessors. But that is about it. There does not appear to be any reliable evidence for Moses or his predecessors.

You should be posting links to valid sources. When you post something as nonsensical as your Ark of the Covenant claim it makes you too easy to refute. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark was not a documentary.

 

[shunyadragon]

"Science" in general is "piecemeal", not congruent, and often "confusing", which was my point.

Spoken from the perspective of uneducated ancient religious agenda.

Jerusalem of David was dated around 1000 BC. The ark of the covenant, as depicted by the arch of Titus in Rome, confirms the treasures of the Temple, which are identified in the living Scripture prior to the period of David, and housed by David's son Solomon. The contents of the "scriptures", in writing, preceded the building of the Temple. The Israelis were outsiders who were conquerors of the Jebusites (original occupants of Jerusalem), who came from Egypt. Whatever language the Israelis used, it preceded 1000 BC, and as Abraham came from Ur of the land of Mesopotamia, whose language was initially referred to as Akkadian and later devolved into Aramaic, the language of the 1st century Jerusalem. Both Hebrew and Aramaic are written in square script and are somewhat similar with some common words. The reason no earlier copies of the Torah can be found, is that they were generally written on lamb skin or papyrus, of course with the exception of the covenant written on stone, which is not available at this time. The archeology of man is written in DNA and undoes most previous archeological concepts, depending on the underlying data base. What one was taught in college in the 1980s has probably already been debunked to a large degree. Probably more is to come.

Problem, abundant papyrus documents have been found more ancient than any written records of Hebrew or the OT. There is no reason ancient papyrus documents in Hebrew should not exist.

The depiction of of the arc of the covenant in a carving is not evidence that it exists just like depictions of carvings of dragons is not evidence tha they exist.

None of the above supports any certainty that the religious beliefs such as the Biblical God exists. It is simply what ancient people believed at the time it was written.

There is absolutely no archaeology evidence that the Creation myth of Genesis, Noah's flood, nor Moses existed and evidence of Exodus.

 

[2ndpillar]

Well, your unstated stale education of the previous century, has kind of left you hanging high and dry with various false statements, whereas my engineering education, which teaches one to think rather than recite, has served me well.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, but the Bible does not seem to think that embryos and fetuses count as people. Why do you keep ignoring the verses that show otherwise?

And sorry, but what on Earth do you mean by "Progressives that groom children"? What? Give them haircuts? Cut their fingernails? Is that a bad thing? Also you are close, the laws in red states are of an immoral nature. Slavery is immoral no matter how one frames it.

I don't know, you enter into self-induced slavery whenever you sign a contract for paying off a vehicle or a house. When one ends up not paying, they end up making a false witness and often committing theft, but in the Progressive world, that is supposedly fine as a reparation due to "slavery", executed by blacks selling blacks to the mostly Dutch traders, facilitated by Arab middlemen, who now make their money by facilitating the selling drugs to the Progressives around the world. And who defines "morality"? Is it the teachers putting on trans exhibition for young children in their classrooms? Or is it the 10 Commandments, the basis of common law, and U.S. law., which are displayed on the Supreme Court doors, with an image of Moses holding the Commandments on the lintel of the building. As for those who decide to persecute the Jews and their laws, well, in the end, those Gentiles/nations, will find themselves sold into slavery by Judah (Joel 3:8). At least for those who "survive" the coming "great tribulation", whereas some will plead to the Jews per (Zechariah 8:23) to teach them their laws.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't know, you enter into self-induced slavery whenever you sign a contract for paying off a vehicle or a house. When one ends up not paying, they end up making a false witness and often committing theft, but in the Progressive world, that is supposedly fine as a reparation due to "slavery", executed by blacks selling blacks to the mostly Dutch traders, facilitated by Arab middlemen, who now make their money by facilitating the selling drugs to the Progressives around the world. And who defines "morality"? Is it the teachers putting on trans exhibition for young children in their classrooms? Or is it the 10 Commandments, the basis of common law, and U.S. law., which are displayed on the Supreme Court doors, with an image of Moses holding the Commandments on the lintel of the building. As for those who decide to persecute the Jews and their laws, well, in the end, those Gentiles/nations, will find themselves sold into slavery by Judah (Joel 3:8). At least for those who "survive" the coming "great tribulation", whereas some will plead to the Jews per (Zechariah 8:23) to teach them their laws.

Your posts are all over the place. Can you try to focus on just one point at a time?

You start off with a rambling statement that getting a loan is the same as slavery. Are you kidding? No, when I got my home loan I knew what I was doing. I was getting a place to live where my payments made it in the past made it so that now my cost of living for housing is very very low. A home loan allows one to get a place to live where one gets a huge percentage of one's money back Where part of your payment is tax deductible. It is hardly slavery. At any point one can opt out by selling one's house. If one invested foolishly there may be a price to pay if one opts out early, but for the most part getting a house is a win all the way around. And what is that racist nonsense that implies that black people are the cause of their own problems? Whoa!

People define morality. They always have and always will. It is a human concept.

Lastly, no the US laws are not based on the Ten Commandments at ll. And the Hebrews were hardly the source of that sort of thought. They appear to have got their ideas from a much older source,, the Code of Hammurabi. Moses is not the only mythical/legendary person on the US Supreme court building, They have the aforementioned Hammurabi. They have Confucius. They even have Muhammad among others. Are you going to try to claim that because Muhammad is on the US Supreme Court building that we are under Sharia Law?

https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/northandsouthwalls.pdf

 

[2ndpillar]

People define morality. They always have and always will. It is a human concept.

Morality for a conservative is not the same as for a Progressive, and the last I saw, they were both deemed "human". As for the Progressives, they kind of took advantage of lax banking protocols during the covid lock down, and they bought cars with no down payment, underwater, which they couldn't afford, at the time the government stopped foreclosures on homes and repossessions on cars, and didn't pay a cent, including insurance and registration, and after that policy stopped, the cars were repossessed and sent to the auction block, where they still had their paper temporary plates. Almost any car or house bought in blue states, in the last year is way underwater as far as value, and with the high interest rates, due to non-responsible Progressive government spending, with borrowed money from the unborn, and the values will continue to drop, and anyone owning such a car or house, is up a creek without a paddle. Not everyone who enters into a slavery position comes out bad. Benjamin Franklin was an indentured servant to acquire a skill, yet he did all right. After the "day of the LORD", the "strangers"/Gentiles will come to Jacob, and ask to be possessed, become servants to the LORD's "people". As far a "Confucius", his teaching was the same as that of Yeshua, which was to do to others as you would have them do to you, which is a summation of the Commandments. British common law is based off the Commandments, which is a source of US law. As for Muhammad, he is kind of a fictional figure without any independent confirmation at the time other than Persians writing about him in the 9th century. As for the time of his supposedly living in a garden of Eden and trading post, with respect to Mecca, a Roman army along with a historian rode past Mecca during that time frame and described it as a desolate waste, somewhat like that of today. No complete copy of the Koran has been dated until around the 9th century, although copies had supposedly been sent to all of the Muslim states after they were supposedly compiled. As for the content, they are simply themes and stories taken from the Jews, the Christians, and the Persians, and the character called "Muhammad", which means the praised one, seems to be taken from a northern Arab character, who was placed over a territory of Persia to keep the Arabs in check. In the inter wall of the dome of the mosques, it appears the the "praised one" was referring to Yeshua, because they believed in "Isa son of Mary", and they had written about Isa and the false Trinity dogma on the inner wall. The Muslims didn't move to Mecca until the 70th year of the Muslim calendar, judged by the Arab chronical whereas the Muslims of Petra, acquired a huge number of pack animals to move, probably because they were at war with the Muslim leadership in Damascus, and probably going to lose that war if they stayed in place. The Muslims of Petra were worldwide traders, who kind of worshipped their dead, as exemplified by the different types of tombs found in Petra.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't know, you enter into self-induced slavery whenever you sign a contract for paying off a vehicle or a house. When one ends up not paying, they end up making a false witness and often committing theft, but in the Progressive world, that is supposedly fine as a reparation due to "slavery", executed by blacks selling blacks to the mostly Dutch traders, facilitated by Arab middlemen, who now make their money by facilitating the selling drugs to the Progressives around the world. And who defines "morality"? Is it the teachers putting on trans exhibition for young children in their classrooms? Or is it the 10 Commandments, the basis of common law, and U.S. law., which are displayed on the Supreme Court doors, with an image of Moses holding the Commandments on the lintel of the building. As for those who decide to persecute the Jews and their laws, well, in the end, those Gentiles/nations, will find themselves sold into slavery by Judah (Joel 3:8). At least for those who "survive" the coming "great tribulation", whereas some will plead to the Jews per (Zechariah 8:23) to teach them their laws.

Rambling incoherent ridiculous response.

Paraphrased from Abraham Lincoln concerning slavery: The only moral exchange or purchase is when both parties agree and benefit.

Yes, the Bible considers slavery moral and legal as long as it is not from your own tribe. Foreign slaves is OK.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Morality for a conservative is not the same as for a Progressive, and the last I saw, they were both deemed "human". As for the Progressives, they kind of took advantage of lax banking protocols during the covid lock down, and they bought cars with no down payment, underwater, which they couldn't afford, at the time the government stopped foreclosures on homes and repossessions on cars, and didn't pay a cent, including insurance and registration, and after that policy stopped, the cars were repossessed and sent to the auction block, where they still had their paper temporary plates. Almost any car or house bought in blue states, in the last year is way underwater as far as value, and with the high interest rates, due to non-responsible Progressive government spending, with borrowed money from the unborn, and the values will continue to drop, and anyone owning such a car or house, is up a creek without a paddle. Not everyone who enters into a slavery position comes out bad. Benjamin Franklin was an indentured servant to acquire a skill, yet he did all right. After the "day of the LORD", the "strangers"/Gentiles will come to Jacob, and ask to be possessed, become servants to the LORD's "people". As far a "Confucius", his teaching was the same as that of Yeshua, which was to do to others as you would have them do to you, which is a summation of the Commandments. British common law is based off the Commandments, which is a source of US law. As for Muhammad, he is kind of a fictional figure without any independent confirmation at the time other than Persians writing about him in the 9th century. As for the time of his supposedly living in a garden of Eden and trading post, with respect to Mecca, a Roman army along with a historian rode past Mecca during that time frame and described it as a desolate waste, somewhat like that of today. No complete copy of the Koran has been dated until around the 9th century, although copies had supposedly been sent to all of the Muslim states after they were supposedly compiled. As for the content, they are simply themes and stories taken from the Jews, the Christians, and the Persians, and the character called "Muhammad", which means the praised one, seems to be taken from a northern Arab character, who was placed over a territory of Persia to keep the Arabs in check. In the inter wall of the dome of the mosques, it appears the the "praised one" was referring to Yeshua, because they believed in "Isa son of Mary", and they had written about Isa and the false Trinity dogma on the inner wall. The Muslims didn't move to Mecca until the 70th year of the Muslim calendar, judged by the Arab chronical whereas the Muslims of Petra, acquired a huge number of pack animals to move, probably because they were at war with the Muslim leadership in Damascus, and probably going to lose that war if they stayed in place. The Muslims of Petra were worldwide traders, who kind of worshipped their dead, as exemplified by the different types of tombs found in Petra.

What makes you think that just "progressives" abused the lockdowns? I know of many ways that conservatives did.

And two things that you need to do in the future. Support your claims with evidence, links are a must. And learn what a paragraph is.

When it comes to sources you also need to know what a valid one is. When it comes to history you need a source whose concern is history. Not religion. So if you use a Christian apologetics site for a discussion on history you will be laughed at. And here is an example of a source:

England – Common Law.

It says nothing about Common Law coming from the Bible. Also it points out that the US started with common law but our system slowly changed away from that. Almost all of our laws today are legislative.