By Faith. Why?

[shunyadragon]

The "slaves" of Deuteronomy 21:10-14 were not of "Hebrew origin". They were slaves belong to the Israelis that were captured in war.

Deuteronomy 21:10–14

10 When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God hands them over to you and you take them captive, 11 suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman whom you desire and want to marry, 12 and so you bring her home to your house: she shall shave her head, pare her nails, 13 discard her captive’s garb, and shall remain in your house a full month, mourning for her father and mother; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money. You must not treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

Incomplete. Yes there were foreign slaves captured in war, but also Hebrews could buy and sell foreign slaves in the market not only in their own markets, but in other kingdoms. Hebrew women may also be bought and sold in the slave market. Yes, Hebrews had slave markets.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I pay $50/month for my truck insurance. Being in "fly over country", I drive a truck. I pay around $200 a month property tax, and around $60 for two years of registration fees as well as gas tax for fuel, as well as pay around $150 for utilities, which includes $30/month for web access, plus food cost. I am over 74, yet do not collect social security nor use Medicare, for I don't need them, and I am in better financial shape and physical shape than the government, yet I net less than $15,000 per year as a self-employed son of man, who owes no man accept a monthly credit card bill which gets paid monthly. I work when, where, and how little I want. The benefits I receive in form of roads and police service is paid in the form of my gas and property tax, as well as sales tax. Apparently, I am actually a free man on the land, who travels were I want, when I want, and yet I carry a driver's license, insurance, passport, and have a license plate. Apparently, I do understand the domestic, as well as world politics, as well as the economic realities of what is involved. The politics involved is that at age 72 plus, I don't have to pay taxes on income under $15,000, for that is my deductibility, nor do I need any more. I am my own mechanic, as well as a someone who can both fix and build a house, and someone who has prepared for the coming times, and who has their own solar system, water cistern, and a garden to help weather the coming storm. I haven't had a salary-based income since around 1972. I am my own slave holder, and a lenient one at that.

Then it is almost certain that you do not pay for all of the services that you use. The few taxes that you pay does not cover the costs of the goods and services that you receive. And that is fine. You will probably never come close to understanding the complexity of the economy of the country that you live in.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Incomplete. Yes there were foreign slaves captured in war, but also Hebrews could buy and sell foreign slaves in the market not only in their own markets, but in other kingdoms. Hebrew women may also be bought and sold in the slave market. Yes, Hebrews had slave markets.

Not only that, if you read it again you can see that the man after he has his way with her has two choices. If he did not like the sex he can dump her. He can't sell her, because he has sex with her. But now in that time her ability to attract a suitable husband has been greatly lowered. By having sex with her he has a huge advantage over her. Either do his bidding, both in the bed and out, or be tossed onto the street with no way of making a legitimate earning. It was a huge threat to any captive woman. She can become i his sex slave as a result.

 

[shunyadragon]

I pay $50/month for my truck insurance. Being in "fly over country", I drive a truck. I pay around $200 a month property tax, and around $60 for two years of registration fees as well as gas tax for fuel, as well as pay around $150 for utilities, which includes $30/month for web access, plus food cost. I am over 74, yet do not collect social security nor use Medicare, for I don't need them, and I am in better financial shape and physical shape than the government, yet I net less than $15,000 per year as a self-employed son of man, who owes no man accept a monthly credit card bill which gets paid monthly. I work when, where, and how little I want. The benefits I receive in form of roads and police service is paid in the form of my gas and property tax, as well as sales tax. Apparently, I am actually a free man on the land, who travels were I want, when I want, and yet I carry a driver's license, insurance, passport, and have a license plate. Apparently, I do understand the domestic, as well as world politics, as well as the economic realities of what is involved. The politics involved is that at age 72 plus, I don't have to pay taxes on income under $15,000, for that is my deductibility, nor do I need any more. I am my own mechanic, as well as a someone who can both fix and build a house, and someone who has prepared for the coming times, and who has their own solar system, water cistern, and a garden to help weather the coming storm. I haven't had a salary-based income since around 1972. I am my own slave holder, and a lenient one at that.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread,

 

[2ndpillar]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread,

The topic of the thread is "faith", and the faith of the Progressives is centered on Government control and in Mammon (possessions) to eventually be equitably shared by all (Marxism), with those who sit on their behinds, the leaders (WEF), sharing the lion's share (hopefully as with the communist regimes in Russia, China, and Venezuela). On the other hand, Yeshua's message was that one was to personally support his neighbor, and as far as the old woman, to give her last coin. Whereas the Gentile church has their own problems, they worship their gods under a different persona, and their faith is with the false prophet Paul. Borrowing money beyond one's mean is a route to hell and destruction, a collective destruction quickly coming upon this world. A wide path paved under government controls, mostly made by leaderships to stay in power. You stated that I should pay my taxes, and I presented that I continue to pay any taxes due. It was you bringing up the subject.

 

[2ndpillar]

Incomplete. Yes there were foreign slaves captured in war, but also Hebrews could buy and sell foreign slaves in the market not only in their own markets, but in other kingdoms. Hebrew women may also be bought and sold in the slave market. Yes, Hebrews had slave markets.

Quite a stretch in imagination.

 

[shunyadragon]

Quite a stretch in imagination.

No, complete citations from the OT that give a clear and specific description of slavery of foreigners and Hebrew women versus indentured servitude for Hebrews,

If you wish to argue these points provide complete references..

 

[Subduction Zone]

The topic of the thread is "faith", and the faith of the Progressives is centered on Government control and in Mammon (possessions) to eventually be equitably shared by all (Marxism), with those who sit on their behinds, the leaders (WEF), sharing the lion's share (hopefully as with the communist regimes in Russia, China, and Venezuela). On the other hand, Yeshua's message was that one was to personally support his neighbor, and as far as the old woman, to give her last coin. Whereas the Gentile church has their own problems, they worship their gods under a different persona, and their faith is with the false prophet Paul. Borrowing money beyond one's mean is a route to hell and destruction, a collective destruction quickly coming upon this world. A wide path paved under government controls, mostly made by leaderships to stay in power. You stated that I should pay my taxes, and I presented that I continue to pay any taxes due. It was you bringing up the subject.

No, this was an attempted equivocation fallacy at best.

 

[3rdAngel]

Justification by faith was prophesied by Habakkuk when he said, 'but the just shall live by his faith' [Habakkuk 2:4]. Of course, it's not that people hadn't lived by faith before the coming of Jesus Christ, because we're told in Hebrews 11 that Abel 'offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain', and he did so 'by faith'. Thereafter, a long list of Old Testament figures lived by faith.

Is there a difference between the faith shown by the OT figures, and faith shown by 'born again' believers in the NT? Can we say that the object of faith is the same?

To my understanding, Paul is correct when he says, 'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law' [Romans 3:28]. This does not mean that works are not important, only that works must follow faith.

I have taken to wondering why it is that Hebrews 11:6 says, 'without faith it is impossible to please him [God]'.

It seems to me that God initiates our trust. God is love, 'a God of truth and without iniquity' [Deuteronomy 32:4]. He raises his own as an only son, admonishing and correcting but always in the spirit of love. The upbringing provided by God allows the son to become a loving example of the Father's Spirit. The love takes root in the son, and the son's trust is rewarded. Is this the reason that trust, or faith, is so important?

Sometimes a delinquent son seeks to fulfil vain ambitions, and does not heed the loving advice of the Father. Yet the Father, ever faithful to his son, continues to offer him love, knowing that even delinquent sons can repent and return. Earthly existence is short, scripture warns us, and the great reward of faith is eternal life with the Father.

So, what is an atheist doing when he declares that faith in God is without evidence? Is love not the evidence that the Son bears the Father's Spirit?

According to the scriptures "We are saved by Gods grace THROUGH FAITH in Gods Word... *Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:17; John 3:36; Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 14:23. Why faith? Mankind was lost to sin by not believing God and believing the Serpent (Devil) instead of God braking Gods commandments (Genesis 3:1-5). It makes perfect sense to me that God should choose faith (believing and following His Word and obeying Him) as the means of our salvation. It is the opposite of how mankind became lost in sin and unbelief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, complete citations from the OT that give a clear and specific description of slavery of foreigners and Hebrew women versus indentured servitude for Hebrews,

If you wish to argue these points provide complete references..

And don't forget it also tells a slave owner how to turn a male Hebrew indenture slavery into a chattel slave.

I don't want to be accused of quote mining so I will quote the entire passage from Exodus 21:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life."

In other words, if you really like the work that your Hebrew servant is giving to you "give" him a wife. The wife, if she is your slave is still your slave. When the man's service is done if he loves his wife and children he will probably not want to leave. The pledge to the master is just clearly an empty claim, at least it would be for any decent human being, he really would want to have stayed with his children.

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version

 

[2ndpillar]

Then it is almost certain that you do not pay for all of the services that you use. The few taxes that you pay does not cover the costs of the goods and services that you receive. And that is fine. You will probably never come close to understanding the complexity of the economy of the country that you live in.

The Progressives printing of money to pay for things no one needs, ending in inflation, is not reason that a 72 year old plus needs to needlessly pay for things no one needs or wants. I limit my income so that I am no long required to pay for things which will ultimately destroy this country. Until the services started giving out sex change operations for free, you would find few Progressives in the service. On the other hand I provide actual services to the community, and have served in the service in Vietnam, and came out with a bronze star for service. The Progressive are trying to provide abortion services for all at no cost, which is going to bring the heavens down upon the heads of everyone. I am all right with Progressives bringing down the heaven upon their own heads but leave me out of it. I understand too well the corruption and the fascist hiding of the facts, of the elites and the media, which is behind the politics of this country. Hey, a simple electromagnetic bomb can take out the U.S. electrical grid in minutes, or the economy can crash this year, the Progressives can holler for the government to help them, but there will be no help, and I will be in the wind, in mountains of God's country, with weapons, a garden, water, energy, and power. Your faith in government will end up in a bad state of affairs, whether you think you paid your fair share, while cashing in on government payments taken from unborn children of the next generation. If you had kept God's commandments, you might have not stolen from the next generation, with a smile on your face. Elections have consequences, and progressives is optimized in the form of the present Progressive president, sitting in one of his 4 homes, and even sometimes visiting the WH, when not eating ice cream or taking a nap, or getting covid, again and again. Maybe he didn't get his covid shot?

 

[2ndpillar]

According to the scriptures "We are saved by Gods grace THROUGH FAITH in Gods Word... *Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:17; John 3:36; Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 14:23. Why faith? Mankind was lost to sin by not believing God and believing the Serpent (Devil) instead of God braking Gods commandments (Genesis 3:1-5). It makes perfect sense to me that God should choose faith (believing and following His Word and obeying Him) as the means of our salvation. It is the opposite of how mankind became lost in sin and unbelief.

Good try, but Ephesians, Romans, and Hebrews were supposedly written by the false prophet Paul or his associates. Not a good source. If you read all of John 3:36, it states that one must "obey the son", or the "wrath of God abides on him". I kind of think that the "Gentile church" has pretty much nailed Yeshua's message to a cross, and worships that cross in the form of wood, silver, or gold (Revelation 9:20), and in the meantime disregards the Law and the prophets, the message of Yeshua, in the form of explaining them in the form of the "kingdom". Time is short, and gravity is pulling the sky down.

 

[2ndpillar]

No, complete citations from the OT that give a clear and specific description of slavery of foreigners and Hebrew women versus indentured servitude for Hebrews,

If you wish to argue these points provide complete references..

I gave my reference of Deut 21:10-14 showing your reference proved no such thing, and you did not give one that Hebrew women were bought as slaves by Hebrews. But to be truthful, I did not expect any such thing, unless you could hook up a printer to your own thoughts.

Deuteronomy 21:10–14

10 When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God hands them over to you and you take them captive, 11 suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman whom you desire and want to marry, 12 and so you bring her home to your house: she shall shave her head, pare her nails, 13 discard her captive’s garb, and shall remain in your house a full month, mourning for her father and mother; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money. You must not treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

 

[3rdAngel]

Good try, but Ephesians, Romans, and Hebrews were supposedly written by the false prophet Paul or his associates. Not a good source. If you read all of John 3:36, it states that one must "obey the son", or the "wrath of God abides on him". I kind of think that the "Gentile church" has pretty much nailed Yeshua's message to a cross, and worships that cross in the form of wood, silver, or gold (Revelation 9:20), and in the meantime disregards the Law and the prophets, the message of Yeshua, in the form of explaining them in the form of the "kingdom". Time is short, and gravity is pulling the sky down.

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. I posted scripture which is Gods Words not mine showing that mankind fell away from God because of sin and unbelief in Gods Word. That is what the scriptures teach in Genesis 3:1-5. The scriptures also teach that we are saved by Gods grace through faith in Ephesians 2:8-9 and that without faith it is impossible to please God in Hebrews 11:6 because whatsoever is not of faith (unbelief) according to the scriptures in Romans 14:23 is sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief in Gods Word do not enter into Gods kingdom according to the scriptures in John 3:36 and Hebrews 10:26-27. As shown above these are all Gods Words not my words that you deny with your words that are not Gods Words. Now what is it that I have shared with you from the scriptures that you do not believe? Are you seriously trying to argue that we can not believe Gods Word and not obey what Gods Word says and still receive everlasting life? I can shown you from the old testament scriptures everything shared with you in this post and the earlier post. Would it help you if I just post old testament scripture? If you believe you can have Gods salvation while practicing sin and unbelief you do not know God or His Word which teaches the opposite of what you are claiming here.

Take Care.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Progressives printing of money to pay for things no one needs, ending in inflation, is not reason that a 72 year old plus needs to needlessly pay for things no one needs or wants. I limit my income so that I am no long required to pay for things which will ultimately destroy this country. Until the services started giving out sex change operations for free, you would find few Progressives in the service. On the other hand I provide actual services to the community, and have served in the service in Vietnam, and came out with a bronze star for service. The Progressive are trying to provide abortion services for all at no cost, which is going to bring the heavens down upon the heads of everyone. I am all right with Progressives bringing down the heaven upon their own heads but leave me out of it. I understand too well the corruption and the fascist hiding of the facts, of the elites and the media, which is behind the politics of this country. Hey, a simple electromagnetic bomb can take out the U.S. electrical grid in minutes, or the economy can crash this year, the Progressives can holler for the government to help them, but there will be no help, and I will be in the wind, in mountains of God's country, with weapons, a garden, water, energy, and power. Your faith in government will end up in a bad state of affairs, whether you think you paid your fair share, while cashing in on government payments taken from unborn children of the next generation. If you had kept God's commandments, you might have not stolen from the next generation, with a smile on your face. Elections have consequences, and progressives is optimized in the form of the present Progressive president, sitting in one of his 4 homes, and even sometimes visiting the WH, when not eating ice cream or taking a nap, or getting covid, again and again. Maybe he didn't get his covid shot?

You really need to open your web searches to more than just want the right wing wacko sites that you use. A bit more skepticism on your part could help you a lot too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. I posted scripture which is Gods Words not mine showing that mankind fell away from God because of sin and unbelief in Gods Word. That is what the scriptures teach in Genesis 3:1-5. The scriptures also teach that we are saved by Gods grace through faith in Ephesians 2:8-9 and that without faith it is impossible to please God in Hebrews 11:6 because whatsoever is not of faith (unbelief) according to the scriptures in Romans 14:23 is sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief in Gods Word do not enter into Gods kingdom according to the scriptures in John 3:36 and Hebrews 10:26-27. As shown above these are all Gods Words not my words that you deny with your words that are not Gods Words. Now what is it that I have shared with you from the scriptures that you do not believe? Are you seriously trying to argue that we can not believe Gods Word and not obey what Gods Word says and still receive everlasting life? I can shown you from the old testament scriptures everything shared with you in this post and the earlier post. Would it help you if I just post old testament scripture? If you believe you can have Gods salvation while practicing sin and unbelief you do not know God or His Word which teaches the opposite of what you are claiming here.

Take Care.

It is an error to call the Bible "God's words". It was written by man and it is very flawed. By calling it God's words you are claiming that God is terribly flawed.

 

[3rdAngel]

It is an error to call the Bible "God's words". It was written by man and it is very flawed. By calling it God's words you are claiming that God is terribly flawed.

There is no error. You are an unbeliever. I do not believe you because you do not know God or His Word. So we will agree to disagree as there can be no agreement between us.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no error. You are an unbeliever. I do not believe you because you do not know God or His Word. So we will agree to disagree as there can be no agreement between us.

Being an unbeliever has nothing to do with the facts. You do not know God or his word either so we are on an equal footing there.

 

[3rdAngel]

Being an unbeliever has nothing to do with the facts. You do not know God or his word either so we are on an equal footing there.

You and I do not agree on what facts are. Take Care.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You and I do not agree on what facts are. Take Care.

Perhaps you should learn. What do makes something a fact?