The "message" of the "son of man"/Yeshua, was the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 13:13-50), whereas only those with eyes to see, the righteous, will understand. The "wicked"/lawless will remain in the dark (Daniel 12:10). Matthew 25 is with respect to the good fruits required to escape the coming fire as stated in Matthew 3:10. The "message" of the "son of man" was greater than just Matthew 25.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...
- Thread starter YoursTrue
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That's too close to the concept of predestination for me to accept.
Not so, as that parable reflects Jesus' Two Commandments that encompasses all the remaining 611. And Jesus concludes that believe is simply not enough for salvation but living out the faith is.
BTW, why didn't you answer my question in #2644?
ElishaElijah
Return
Why don’t you believe and apply what Jesus Christ clearly says:
”Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“
John 3:10-17 NKJV
I don't know, in the time of Jonah, he warned the people to turn from wickedness/lawlessness. In the time of Noah, he warned the people to turn from their wickedness/lawlessness. In the time of Adam, he gave Adam and Eve a commandment to keep, yet apparently, the devil's influence and the promise of everlasting life was too much for them.
Having an "elect" of God, is apparently too much of a concept for you to accept. The "son of man" came as a light for all, that all might believe through him. Yet the "world did not know him". Yeshua came as a "witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him", though "he was not the light". (John 1) The light and the truth came through Yeshua, the "Word of God" made flesh, yet the world did not know him.
There was no mention of 611 commandments in Mt 22. The Commandments that Yeshua listed one must keep to enter into life, were taken from the 10 Commandments with respect to loving one's neighbor. (Mt 19:16-19).
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, as I said, most of the prophecies for the messianic age have not been fulfilled yet since we are only about 70 years into an age that will last no less than 1000 years.
However, all the prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the messiah have been fulfilled.
There are so many prophecies but Micah 7:12 is a good one.
Please note that Baha’u’llah had no control over His own destiny for the last 40 years of His Life after He declared His mission because He was deemed a prisoner of the government He was banished and exiled from place to place. The following prophecy was fulfilled by these exiles and banishments.
Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.
and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.
The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.
and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.
and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.
and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.
The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith.
From: William Sears, Thief in the Night
Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
So Muhammad is a false prophet?
Sahih al-Bukhari 4428 - Book 64, Hadith 450
'The Prophet (ﷺ) in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O `Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.'
Q 69:44-46
"And if the apostle Were to invent Any sayings in Our name,
We should certainly seize him By his right hand,
And We should certainly Then cut off the artery Of his heart"
I am going by your standard.
Last edited:
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
John 8:12
"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, 'I am the light of the world.'Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
He claimed 'light' as he claimes 'way' , 'truth' 'life'.
Jesus also said:
'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;'
So you can put that 'through him' in the basket.
John 1:
'He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.'
You can note what was made through him.
You use verses , but not complete,why?
,
False
Jesus claimed to be the light as explained in John 11:25-26
And not through him , but in him.
You use 'through him' to justify your belief.
Is this what Dawaghandist are teaching you?
John 1
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
life = light
a=b b=c , a=c
also
John 1
There was a man sent from God whose name was John.He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Again the same
Jesus claims to be the light , way , truth , life , ressurection..
He did not say - 'i come with the truth' , he said 'I am the truth'
No, no
The greatest commandment is 'Love your God with all your heart , all your soul and all your mind'
Second is : 'Love your neighbor as yourself'
Matthew 22:40
'On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.'
Any questions?
Last edited:
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You continue to avoid the question, namely why would God supposedly ignore those who lived more than 2-3000 years ago and/or who lived in different areas of the world whereas they wouldn't know anything about the God of Israel? You keep avoiding that question.
Why would God "elect" only some and ignore all the others, especially before Jesus' time? How is that logical?
Which again is totally illogical, and it's mean spirited to boot.
There were and are 613 Commandments as found in Torah-- not just 10. Jesus mentions them when he said in Matthew [22]37 "Jesus said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
BTW, here's where you can find the 613: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)
The God of Israel was the same God of Abraham, Noah, and Adam. Adam was from the beginning. Apparently, the God of Noah, didn't ignore the people of Noah's time, nor will he ignore the people of today, whether they acknowledge the God of Israel or not. It will come down to how they treat their neighbors. Whether they murder, lie to, or take their neighbor's wife, it will all be written down in the book of life, and from their deeds, they will be judged (Revelation 20:12). Whether they are judged now or later, no one escapes the white thrown judgment. In the meantime, you have the tribulation, the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32) to look forward to, unless of course you "sleep"/die beforehand.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
God has known the "elect" from the foundation of the world. You can declare your ability to be logical, such as numbered among the wise and intelligent, but God says that the wisdom of God will be withheld from you (Matthew 11:25-27). God knew the "elect" before they were born.
Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Take our complaint to God. Or possibly, you don't think John in John 1 was telling the Truth, but then again you might think your take is superior to John's because of your supposedly superior "logic".
The 10 Commandments, Law of God, are in the ark of the covenant. The 1st four are with respect to how to love God, and the last 6 are for loving your neighbor. The Law of God, the Commandments, are for every person (Ecclesiastes 12:10), whereas the law of Moses, are for the sanctification of Israel.
John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word" John 1:14, "and the Word became flesh" The "Word" came before the "Word made flesh".
John 1:9 "There was the true light which coming into the world, enlightens every man."
Yeshua was the "Word (Law and the prophets) made flesh", which in the last supper was depicted as the unleavened bread of life, which would be the Word of God without the leaven (hypocrisy of the Pharisees), which one must eat. The "Word" is the Spirit of Revelation, and is the Spirit of God, which in the last supper was described as the blood/wine, in which one must drink. You can read the Law and the Prophets, the "Word of God", but without the source of life and revelation, the "Word", the Spirit of Revelation, one is simply delegated to be as a hypocritical empty shell. If one does not "believe" in "me", the Word made flesh, though they die, they will not live. You cannot nail the Word of God to a cross and expect a good outcome. I suggest that you remove the leaven (teachings of the Pharisee of Pharisees) from your bread of life.
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God.
You are abusing information.
John 1:14
'The Word became flesh'
That means God became flesh
That is how logic works on textual criticism.Maybe you should learn more about mathematics..
You call on Aramaic i see
What does 'Yeshua' mean in Aramaic?
I am not interested in your views,I am interested in how Scripture supports your claims.
You stated two verses and then used Dawaghandist tactics to explain the Bible.So you are using the Quran as source to explain the Bible.
James 1:22
'Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.'
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
In John 1:8 the emphasis is on John , not Jesus , since we know what is stated in John 1:6
Let's see what John 1:9-11 says
"The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him."
The true light is Jesus , since Jesus claims to be the light in John 8:12
'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.'.
That is why in John 10 it says 'He' and not 'It'.
'He' is Jesus - the Logos , which is God according to John 1.
You did not reply on my first responce , is Muhammad then a false prophet , since i am using the same standard as you?
Last edited:
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
Yeshua is the Logos and not your poofy explenation which is also dismissed by
Maathew 5:17
'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'
Where does he say 'I am the Law'?
You are cluless when claims are considered,and that is expected because of your Dawaghandist tactics.
More tactics and playing chess with words as many do.
which would be 'Yeshua' as he is the Logos.
Here is what Yeshua said in the Last Supper
Luke 22:19
"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me'."
Again already seen tactic
Same chapter
'In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.'
I suggest that you read the NT one more time , as abusing words is obvious in your explenations.
We do not determine what is the outcome , God does.
And the Logos was on a cross 2 000 years ago.
Our faith is based on the eyewitness of the Apostles.
I suggest that you should re-study the Bible and you can come back again.We are always here to talk.
Byeee
Now you are arguing against yourself. Matthew 5:17 is with respect to the son of man, Yeshua, coming to fulfill the Law and the prophets, which as of today, has not been completed/fulfilled, and not one stroke or letter of the Law and the prophets shall pass away until "all is accomplished. Anyone trying to do so will be called "least" in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-19). Keep in mind that Saul's name was changed to "Paul", which means small, and the foremost of small/little is least, and everyone knows that Paul is the foremost of everything, such as the foremost sinner. When a person is unable to debate a subject, the first thing they go to is insults.
Well, Yeshua spoke in parables with regard to the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 13:13-14). He used imagery in his descriptions. No one eats a slain son of man for their sins, that would be the traditions of pagans. The "unleavened bread" which the disciples ate, was the bread of life, without the leaven of the Pharisees, which is imagery for the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. As for the wine, Yeshua would not again drink the wine until "I drink it new with you in My Father's Kingdom" (Mt 26:29), which only happens "immediately after the tribulation" (Mt 24:29-31). The feast of Booths is the fall festival, when Israel came out of Egypt/nations, and in the end, will commemorate when Israel is gathered out of the nations/Gentiles again, and joined with Judah (Ezekiel 36 & 37).
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
Read Revelation 21 and 22 , maybe you will learn something
No i didn't , just because you can't handle the answer , doesn't mean it is insult.
Read first Matthew 20:1-16 and take note of 16th verse
"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
No we eat bread and we drink little wine , don't you know what is Eucharist?
Kissing black stone on the other hand is pagan tradition.
Again , your own interpretation as such is no needed.
He came back from the dead , didn't you know?
John 20:26-29
"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you!' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe'.
Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'
Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'
Oh Thomas said to him My Lord and my God and look what he told him
Again , i suggest that you leave that Dawaghandist tactics , and start reading the NT with fresh mind.
Take care
Peace
Muhammad, simply means the "praised one", an adjective with no real name, and the Islamic narrative was not begun until 100 years after this Muhammad's supposed death. The Koran only names one prophet, Isa son of Mariam. At the time of Muhammad's supposed murder, in around 632 A.D., there was no great trading center called Mecca, the area was a desolate wilderness. The Islamic narrative was written mostly by Persians, in Persia, or what is now known as the area around Baghdad. The birthplace of the home of Allah, was in Petra, the home of worldwide Arabic traders, and the home of the Kabba, the house of the gods. Muhammad, even though an imaginary guy, whose narrative was taken from the Persians, the Jews, and the Romans, is a false imaginary prophet, and along with Paul, both supposedly following angels of light, which would be a good description of Satan as declared by Paul. Yeshua, the son of man, was a messiah, anointed one, as in anointed by the Spirit of God, the Spirit of prophecy. Without that anointing, there is no light of the world, and you only have flesh.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Read Revelation 20:10, whereas the new condo of the "beast", "false prophet" and "devil" is the "lake of fire". As for Revelation 21 & 22, they are in the future, and the lawless, those who love lying, dwell outside the gate (Rev 22:15). As for the "root and offspring of David" (Rev 22:16) he will be ruling as king in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:15-16), and the survivors of the "day of the LORD" will have to come to Jerusalem every year to bow down to him on the feast of Booths.
Zechariah 14:16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
That comment in one case was directed towards Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 14:17, who was the first shepherd/disciple chosen, but who will be the last in stature, who was chosen to fulfill Isaiah 22:15-25 & Zech 11, whereas Peter's followers, those who hang onto his words, will be "cut off". Matthew 19:27-30 was with respect to Peter asking what was in it for him.