By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[Subduction Zone]

I was answering according to the post, appears you are not. If you’re not a Christian why you on this thread?

Because I used to be a Christian and I gave my answer based upon what I believed back then.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Because I used to be a Christian and I gave my answer based upon what I believed back then.

Well then why are you on here when you don’t now consider yourself a Christian?

 

[2ndpillar]

Well then why are you on here when you don’t now consider yourself a Christian?

This is a forum for religious debate, which would include views from all sides. As there are around 38,000 different "Christian" sects, I am sure there are at least 38,000 views with respect to religion, not counting views from other religions, and non-religious viewpoints. Not to say that any of the views are correct.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well then why are you on here when you don’t now consider yourself a Christian?

Due to the countless other and more serious flaws in the religion. Perhaps the biggest flaw is the failed idea of substitutionary atonement.

 

[ElishaElijah]

By the way-if yo

This is a forum for religious debate, which would include views from all sides. As there are around 38,000 different "Christian" sects, I am sure there are at least 38,000 views with respect to religion, not counting views from other religions, and non-religious viewpoints. Not to say that any of the views are correct.

By the way - if you claim to be a Christian was the post…then the non Christian was questioning my motive and insinuates something, I’m asking in return, what’s your motive for being on here when you aren’t a Christian? How about just answer the question

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Due to the countless other and more serious flaws in the religion. Perhaps the biggest flaw is the failed idea of substitutionary atonement.

I think that you're correct in your assessment of Christianity. Personally, I'd include what I consider to be the scare tactics of Christianity, such as suffering God's wrath for allegedly sinning against him and being punished with eternal damnation for these sins, and the accusation of being morally depraved and in need of God's forgiveness, which is presumably obtained through the brutal death and blood sacrifice of a demigod who was supposedly his son.

 

[2ndpillar]

All of it. Unbelief is sin (Romans 14:23)

I don't believe some entity by the supposed name of Gabriel quoted the Koran to some supposed entity now called Mohammed. Am I a sinner because of my "unbelief"? If I follow the "false prophets" in Matthew 7:13-15, such as the false prophet Paul, am I on a wide path to "destruction". Or if I disbelieve the "message" of the false prophet, do I escape the coming "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32)/destruction? Keep in mind, according to Paul, there is nothing good that dwells within him, and he is unable to do good, and the one acting in me is "the sin which indwells in me" (Romans 7:1-24). Is the "sin" that indwells in Paul, his "unbelief". Your apparent double mindedness is only matched by that of Muslims, with respect to the number of adherents. According to the Islamic faith, it is "sin" to pray to the dead, yet they pray 5 times a day, to the supposed prophet, who is dead. According to Muslims, their sins are forgiven if they kiss the black stone and do their round abouts. According to "Christians", their sins are forgiven if they believe the message of Paul. Both adherents are cursed with plagues (Revelation 18:4), and all will die (Jeremiah 31:30).

 

[2ndpillar]

I'm thinking that doesn't have anything to do with your stating that being a Christian means you have to study the Bible. What I think Jesus meant by that is that spiritual fulfillment comes from God.

And what does "Spiritual fulfillment" mean? Was the crazy guy filled with a legion of demon spirits fulfilled when he asked to be placed into a herd of pigs fulfilled when his request was fulfilled and the pigs then drowned themselves?

 

[2ndpillar]

"how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?.....​

​

But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth,​

And their words unto the ends of the world.​

As you can see here, Paul was clearly teaching that they understood without the need for preachers or Bibles. What if they are illiterate and can't read? Too bad for them? Off to hell with you because you can't read the Bible! You can't believe that, do you?

Yeshua taught the rich guy how to "follow him". First, he said to keep the Commandments, to "enter into life" and then named the Commandments. Then he said sell all you have and give it to the poor and follow me to become perfect. Whose words do the followers of Paul hear? Paul never saw or heard Yeshua, except in his self-professed vision of an angel of light, which did not contain the teachings of Yeshua. Paul taught his own self-professed insights, much as the supposed Mohammad received his visions from some supposed angel of light, named Gabriel. It is the "many" who are deceived and walk the wide path to destruction by means of the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:13-15).

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yeshua taught the rich guy how to "follow him". First, he said to keep the Commandments, to "enter into life" and then named the Commandments. Then he said sell all you have and give it to the poor and follow me to become perfect. Whose words do the followers of Paul hear? Paul never saw or heard Yeshua, except in his self-professed vision of an angel of light, which did not contain the teachings of Yeshua. Paul taught his own self-professed insights, much as the supposed Mohammad received his visions from some supposed angel of light, named Gabriel. It is the "many" who are deceived and walk the wide path to destruction by means of the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:13-15).

Mmm .. I follow your 'drift' ..
..but one thing..

How do you know that the majority of Christians, and majority of Muslims are wrong to believe what they believe .. while you, a minority, are right.

 

[2ndpillar]

Mmm .. I follow your 'drift' ..
..but one thing..

How do you know that the majority of Christians, and majority of Muslims are wrong to believe what they believe .. while you, a minority, are right.

According to your Koran, Isa, son of Mariam, Yeshua, was a prophet of Allah. Yeshua said in Matthew 7:13-15, that it is the "many" who are deceived by the "false prophets" and the "few" (minority) who enter into life.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I don't believe some entity by the supposed name of Gabriel quoted the Koran to some supposed entity now called Mohammed. Am I a sinner because of my "unbelief"? If I follow the "false prophets" in Matthew 7:13-15, such as the false prophet Paul, am I on a wide path to "destruction". Or if I disbelieve the "message" of the false prophet, do I escape the coming "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32)/destruction? Keep in mind, according to Paul, there is nothing good that dwells within him, and he is unable to do good, and the one acting in me is "the sin which indwells in me" (Romans 7:1-24). Is the "sin" that indwells in Paul, his "unbelief". Your apparent double mindedness is only matched by that of Muslims, with respect to the number of adherents. According to the Islamic faith, it is "sin" to pray to the dead, yet they pray 5 times a day, to the supposed prophet, who is dead. According to Muslims, their sins are forgiven if they kiss the black stone and do their round abouts. According to "Christians", their sins are forgiven if they believe the message of Paul. Both adherents are cursed with plagues (Revelation 18:4), and all will die (Jeremiah 31:30).

Probably read the rest of Romans to get a clear picture of what Paul was saying.
”For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭18‬, ‭24‬-‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That’s all people, no good thing dwells in our flesh and we all need a Savior, even Muhammed, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God except 1 and His Name is Jesus Christ.
He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Probably read the rest of Romans to get a clear picture of what Paul was saying.
”For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭18‬, ‭24‬-‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That’s all people, no good thing dwells in our flesh and we all need a Savior, even Muhammed, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God except 1 and His Name is Jesus Christ.
He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

And another major failing of your book of myths.

 

[2ndpillar]

Probably read the rest of Romans to get a clear picture of what Paul was saying.
”For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭18‬, ‭24‬-‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That’s all people, no good thing dwells in our flesh and we all need a Savior, even Muhammed, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God except 1 and His Name is Jesus Christ.
He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

According to Yeshua, those who commit "lawlessness", such as sin, are noted as the "wicked", also addressed as the "tares", and will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13). The gospel of lawlessness is the false prophet Paul's gospel of grace/cross. "Everybody dies for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). You will die for your own iniquities, not someone else. Any righteous person can pray for the forgiveness of your sins and be heard by God, as was done by Elijah, and emphasized by James 5:16. On the other hand, God does not hear the prayers of the "wicked"/"sinners" (John 9:31). You as well as the demons can believe what you will, but the demons believe, and yet "shudder", for they know what is coming for them. (James 2:19) You on the other hand have been told by Yeshua, yet you believe Paul, the "foremost sinner" instead. Not a good move.

John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but He does listen to the one who worships Him and does His will.

 

[ElishaElijah]

According to Yeshua, those who commit "lawlessness", such as sin, are noted as the "wicked", also addressed as the "tares", and will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13). The gospel of lawlessness is the false prophet Paul's gospel of grace/cross. "Everybody dies for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). You will die for your own iniquities, not someone else. Any righteous person can pray for the forgiveness of your sins and be heard by God, as was done by Elijah, and emphasized by James 5:16. On the other hand, God does not hear the prayers of the "wicked"/"sinners" (John 9:31). You as well as the demons can believe what you will, but the demons believe, and yet "shudder", for they know what is coming for them. (James 2:19) You on the other hand have been told by Yeshua, yet you believe Paul, the "foremost sinner" instead. Not a good move.

John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but He does listen to the one who worships Him and does His will.

Have you ever sinned?

 

[ElishaElijah]

According to Yeshua, those who commit "lawlessness", such as sin, are noted as the "wicked", also addressed as the "tares", and will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13). The gospel of lawlessness is the false prophet Paul's gospel of grace/cross. "Everybody dies for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). You will die for your own iniquities, not someone else. Any righteous person can pray for the forgiveness of your sins and be heard by God, as was done by Elijah, and emphasized by James 5:16. On the other hand, God does not hear the prayers of the "wicked"/"sinners" (John 9:31). You as well as the demons can believe what you will, but the demons believe, and yet "shudder", for they know what is coming for them. (James 2:19) You on the other hand have been told by Yeshua, yet you believe Paul, the "foremost sinner" instead. Not a good move.

John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but He does listen to the one who worships Him and does His will.

”Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.“
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭5‬-‭8‬, ‭10‬-‭16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[ElishaElijah]

And another major failing of your book of myths.

I believe this is a truth in Scripture:
”Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭22‬-‭25‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Trailblazer]

Have you ever sinned?

I thought Christianity teaches that we are all sinners, everyone except Jesus, who is sinless.

So,
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
would mean that God does not hear anyone except Jesus.

But that verse is contradicted by these verses:

1 John 5
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I thought Christianity teaches that we are all sinners, everyone except Jesus, who is sinless.

So,
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
would mean that God does not hear anyone except Jesus.

But that verse is contradicted by these verses:

1 John 5
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

That’s right God shouldn’t listen to any of us because we have sinned and deserve the wrath of God.
I’m glad for the mercy and love of God that in Christ we have received blessing, forgiveness, his righteousness. How can I not praise and worship Him for all He has done!

 

[Trailblazer]

That’s right God shouldn’t listen to any of us because we have sinned and deserve the wrath of God.
I’m glad for the mercy and love of God that in Christ we have received blessing, forgiveness, his righteousness. How can I not praise and worship Him for all He has done!

That is basically the same thing that my religion teaches. We are all sinners so we do not deserve the mercy of God but we get it anyway.
What it means to be a sinner according to the Baha'i Faith is falling short of the glory of God. We all fall short.