By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[2ndpillar]

But it isn't true. Only faith in Jesus can save us from ourselves, death, and the penalty of sin.

Well, the way I am seeing it, is that you will "die for your own iniquities" (Jer 31:30), and you remain in your sins (plagues). You might want to investigate what your "faith in Jesus" means.

 

[Muffled]

Which parts do you consider true? Please be specific.

I believe it all to be true. What I don't believe are false interpretations.

 

[Muffled]

I consider Christ to be, first and foremost, a great moral teacher. If we all lived or tried to live according to the revolutionary principles expressed in the Sermon on the Mount, the world would be a far better place than it currently is.

I believe that is secondary.

 

[Muffled]

From the scripture in the post you are quoting from. Romans 14:23... for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Faith means to believe and obey Gods Word. Unbelief is not believing and not obeying what Gods Word (the scriptures) say. The scripture does not say "if you do things half heartedly and doubt that you should do them at all, perhaps you should not do them." It says whatsoever is not of faith is sin. We should not try reading things into the scriptures that are not written in them.

Take Care.

I believe one has to look at the context. If a person thinks something is a sin or may be a sin and does it anyway then he is not doing so with faith so it is a sin. For a person who knows it isn't a sin and does not doubt then faith keeps it from being a sin. The problem is there is false faith that something isn't a sin and the homosexuals are guilty of that.

 

[F1fan]

But it isn't true. Only faith in Jesus can save us from ourselves, death, and the penalty of sin.

Who told you that?

 

[F1fan]

I don't know, I am quoting the "Word"/Scripture and Yeshua and his message of the "kingdom of heaven", whereas the "wicked"/lawless will not understand (Mt 13:13-15 & Danie 12:10), and instead of coming to the light, will be attracted to the darkness (Isaiah 5:20). One rejects or makes the "Word" "obsolete" at their own peril. Yeshua's message was "repent" or be "gathered" and "burned" (Mt 3) & Mt 13:30)

The prophet Isaiah warns the people of God against making the wrong choice: Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness. — Isaiah 5:20

And why believe any of it, and in the way you interpret it? Who told you to believe it?

 

[F1fan]

I believe one has to look at the context. If a person thinks something is a sin or may be a sin and does it anyway then he is not doing so with faith so it is a sin.

Baptists used to say dancing was a sin. Were they correct? Or did they get it wrong?

For a person who knows it isn't a sin and does not doubt then faith keeps it from being a sin. The problem is there is false faith that something isn't a sin and the homosexuals are guilty of that.

Not if the gays know it isn’t a sin. Their faith keeps it from being a sin regardless of your opinion. Right? Or are you perfect in your judgment of others?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you but I am not the one that is thinking irrationally. Try to think rationally. If you cannot respond to my posts and the scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you than the problem is your side not mine and your simply projecting what you are already doing.

Because you were making false claim stating you provided scripture showing that not believing Gods Word is not sin. I know that claim has no truth to it and you provided no such scripture because there is no such scripture. So I challenged you to prove your false claims.

Well yes you do have a problem. Lets discuss these scripture now that you linked and see if they say what you claim they are saying. You provided a link to Romans 3. Please now show us where does it say in Romans 3 that "whatsoever is not of faith is not sin" in disagreement with Romans 14:23 that says "whatsoever is not of faith is sin"? There is nothing in Romans 3 anywhere that says that unbelief is not sin. Lets be honest you have nothing do you which is why I asked you for the link. None of the scriptures you have provided support anything that you have said in our discussion now do they. Please be honest dear friend. Sorry I am not leaving you with any wiggle room now. You have nothing.

Yes that is what I have said to you from the beginning. We are in agreement here. If you do not care what the bible says why are you trying to have a discussion in a scripture forum.

Yes I can see you are irritated. It is because you are being provided with scripture proving that you are the one misusing the scriptures which is why you are unable to respond to the posts, scriptures and questions asked of you that are in disagreement with you. I was never discussing is the bible reliable or not. I beleive according to the scriptures that it is your unbelief that is the problem not the bible which has been pointed out to you from the very beginning.

Your response here...

The only claims I have made is telling you the truth by providing scripture that proves what you say is not truthful. In response you make false claims and accusations you are unable to prove when challenged. I think we have traveled down this path before. You simple will not address the posts and scripture content that are in disagreement with you that have only been sent in love as a help to you. Instead of receiving Gods correction through His Words and being blessed you turn away in unbelief. So we will agree to disagree dear friend.

I have not made any false claims. I have only provided scripture that is in disagreement with you. They are Gods Words not mine and they disagree with your words that are not Gods. Everything else in your post here is not truthful do does not need a response. I already asked you to prove what you say your just continuing with false allegation that when challenged you cannot prove. For example here prove to me that when Romans 14:23 says word for word that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" in agreement with Hebrews 11:6 that says "without faith it is impossible to please God" and again in the very words of Jesus in John 3:36 that says "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. You have no scripture to prove any of your claims now do you. Lets be honest dear friend you have nothing to support anything you have said. Sorry I am not leaving you any wiggle room here. There is no salvation in unbelief and sin (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Only the judgements of God are provided to all those who choose to walk down that road. They are a part of the many that are called and not of the few that will be Gods chosen.

Sorry dear friend, I do not believe you and the reasons why I do not believe you have already been provided throughout our conversation proving why with scripture that is in disagreement with you that you are unwilling to address. Sadly the only thing you are doing is everything you are falsely accusing me of and projecting because you are unable to respond to all the scripture content that is in disagreement with you. So we will agree to disagree.

Take Care.

there yo go, More evidence that are not a Christian. You continue to make false accusations.

I gave you a quote of the scripture. And a link. You had no response. I could do so again.

You never provided scripture that disagrees with me. This was your number one mistake. You only provided verses taken grossly out of context. When I did that you got irritated. But that is exactly what you did.

And you are all over the place again. Please try to concentrate on one point at a time. Do you think that you can do that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Baptists used to say dancing was a sin. Were they correct? Or did they get it wrong?

Of course. That is why they do not have sex standing up. Someone might think that they were dancing.

 

[2ndpillar]

And why believe any of it, and in the way you interpret it? Who told you to believe it?

What people told me to believe, I do not believe. One either seeks truth or they don't. The search of Yeshua started with 40 days of fasting and prayer. My search was not so jarring an experience but took much longer than 40 days. If what I have found is of the light, those of the light will recognize the light. Those of the darkness, will reject it. It is what it is. One must seek that LORD while he may be found (Is 55). The "tares", the product of the "tare seed" were to be protected until the end of the age (Mt 13:30), and now we are at the end of the age, and the tares will now be gathered out and burned, whereas Paul (Zech 11:7-10) will be exposed as the mouth of the "enemy" and Peter the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17) whose reign is to end "in that day" (Is 22:15-25)

 

[2ndpillar]

Of course. That is why they do not have sex standing up. Someone might think that they were dancing.

I don't know about that. I am thinking Baptist would be glad to have sex in any fashion it could be obtained. I have even "danced" with at least one Baptist, but probably unknowingly with more. What they say and what they do is probably not coordinated.

 

[F1fan]

What people told me to believe, I do not believe. One either seeks truth or they don't. The search of Yeshua started with 40 days of fasting and prayer.

Who suggested doing that?

My search was not so jarring an experience but took much longer than 40 days. If what I have found is of the light, those of the light will recognize the light. Those of the darkness, will reject it. It is what it is. One must seek that LORD while he may be found (Is 55). The "tares", the product of the "tare seed" were to be protected until the end of the age (Mt 13:30), and now we are at the end of the age, and the tares will now be gathered out and burned, whereas Paul (Zech 11:7-10) will be exposed as the mouth of the "enemy" and Peter the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17) whose reign is to end "in that day" (Is 22:15-25)

A lot of abstract ideas that seems to have come from belief in a certain interpretation of the Bible. This all suggests you just followed what others told you is true.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who suggested doing that?

A lot of abstract ideas that seems to have come from belief in a certain interpretation of the Bible. This all suggests you just followed what others told you is true.

Or what he wanted to believe in the first place. Confirmation bias is extraordinarily wrong among believers. None of them seem to understand how to properly test a belief.

 

[2ndpillar]

Who suggested doing that?

A lot of abstract ideas that seems to have come from belief in a certain interpretation of the Bible. This all suggests you just followed what others told you is true.

Well, be raised as a Catholic, in the early 50s, I never read a bible, and pretty much discounted the content coming from the Catholic church. I was given a bible around the age of 22 by a lost child of God, who was a member of the Assembly of God Church, which is just another of the "daughters of Babylon" who cause children to "stumble" (Mt 18:6).

 

[F1fan]

Or what he wanted to believe in the first place. Confirmation bias is extraordinarily wrong among believers. None of them seem to understand how to properly test a belief.

I have read testimonies by Christians who say that they felt pressure to have to go through some sort of crisis or devotion or have experience before they are actually a Christian. I suspect what does really means is that Christians use peer pressure to get new believers involved, get them spending time and investing themselves shells into whatever dogma they are being exposed to.

 

[2ndpillar]

Or what he wanted to believe in the first place. Confirmation bias is extraordinarily wrong among believers. None of them seem to understand how to properly test a belief.

Confirmational bias is most notably noticed among Progressive godless Marxist, whose course of action is to throw stones and holler at others, since their message has a historical failure rate, with no explaining their positions of continual failures and lost lives. Just saying. As for the Gentile churches, their failures are from being "deceived" (Rev 13:11-14). No such excuse has been laid out for the failure of the godless Marxist, other than being led by "demon spirits" (Rev 16:13). Marx seemed to have lacked critical thinking, or he wouldn't have substituted idiot leaders from the Proletariat for the capable bourgeoisie leaders, not allowing for enough production to make everyone a king. Which of course leads to destruction, except in the case of early 21st Century China, whereas Capitalism was introduced at the fringe to increase production, which with central planning now undermining free enterprise, it is now leading to a collapse, and a new world disorder. Maybe you can build your new Utopia on the remaining ruble.

 

[YoursTrue]

The earliest version of the last parts of the last chapter of Matthew did not exist. In plain language, it was added on, but appears to be the mountain you make your battle on, although with respect to the "kingdom", in Mt 24:14, the "kingdom" was to be "preached as a witness to all the nations". The "gospel of the kingdom" has nothing to do with the false gospel of grace, presented by the false prophet Paul, and is antithetical to it.
What was referred to in the Commandments was that one was not to "commit adultery". As for your false prophet Paul and his minions telling his followers that they should not to eat things sacrificed to idols, eat/drink blood, or fornicate. Paul simply got around not eating meat sacrificed idols by saying idols/gods are not real for those with his expressed "faith". On the other hand, Paul's followers seem mostly just to ignore the "blood" thing and seem to "fornicate" with little or no restraint, apparently with the knowledge that they can kill the unborn at will with the help of Joe, Dr. Jill Biden, and Governor Newsom. The true Scripture had a different approach. It said don't be too wise, but don't be too foolish and die before your time.

I'd like to research this a bit, so if you would, could you please say which text you are using to refer to the last part of the last chapter of Matthew that you say were not there at first? And when it was inserted, according to you? Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

The earliest version of the last parts of the last chapter of Matthew did not exist. In plain language, it was added on, but appears to be the mountain you make yourA battle on, although with respect to the "kingdom", in Mt 24:14, the "kingdom" was to be "preached as a witness to all the nations". The "gospel of the kingdom" has nothing to do with the false gospel of grace, presented by the false prophet Paul, and is antithetical to it.
What was referred to in the Commandments was that one was not to "commit adultery". As for your false prophet Paul and his minions telling his followers that they should not to eat things sacrificed to idols, eat/drink blood, or fornicate. Paul simply got around not eating meat sacrificed idols by saying idols/gods are not real for those with his expressed "faith". On the other hand, Paul's followers seem mostly just to ignore the "blood" thing and seem to "fornicate" with little or no restraint, apparently with the knowledge that they can kill the unborn at will with the help of Joe, Dr. Jill Biden, and Governor Newsom. The true Scripture had a different approach. It said don't be too wise, but don't be too foolish and die before your time.

And another thing -- I notice you call Paul a false prophet. So now I'd like to ask which books of the Bible, if any, do you consider as true and inspired by God? Any of them?

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that is secondary.

OK, that is your viewpoint. Did you say what is primary? Forgive me if I don't remember. Thanks.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In reference to marrying someone, I would hope that a person would know quite a bit about who they're marrying.

That's why intimate familiarity is valuable prior to marriage, and not just physical intimacy. You need to live together first to have the best chance of success in marriage assuming that one has behavioral requirements for a roomate.

I like Mark Twain. So far. i don't KNOW him, only what I've heard, but I look forward to meeting him in the resurrection.

Maybe not:

The problem is there is false faith

False faith? As in guessing wrong? How would you know that you have guessed wrong? Or correctly if you were that lucky in your guess.

Confirmational bias is most notably noticed among Progressive godless Marxist

I was just on another thread where a Christian was unable to see the contradictions between the two creation myths in Genesis even with the scriptures laid out for him:

Genesis 1
[25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
[26]Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

Genesis 2
[18]Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."
[19] So out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air.

He cannot see that the first says beasts then man, and the second the opposite.

Can we assume that you are an American conservative for whom liberal and Marxist are synonymous, and probably atheist and socialist as well? We have one or two Marxists on RF, but I haven't seen one post about it in months.

As for the Gentile churches, their failures are from being "deceived" (Rev 13:11-14)

And you know who's deceiving them. Their own, just like with these political opinions. Christians are deceiving Christians through the pulpit and scriptures, and conservatives are deceiving conservatives using conservative indoctrination media. There's a reason why people who buy into either tend to buy into both, and why those who reject either reject both. It's related to critical thinking skills and general education level. There's a good reason many denominations fear universities for their children. They learn critical thinking there, which isn't good for faith.

No such excuse has been laid out for the failure of the godless Marxist, other than being led by "demon spirits" (Rev 16:13). Marx seemed to have lacked critical thinking, or he wouldn't have substituted idiot leaders from the Proletariat for the capable bourgeoisie leaders, not allowing for enough production to make everyone a king. Which of course leads to destruction, except in the case of early 21st Century China, whereas Capitalism was introduced at the fringe to increase production, which with central planning now undermining free enterprise, it is now leading to a collapse, and a new world disorder. Maybe you can build your new Utopia on the remaining ruble.

What does any of this have to do with the present? Marx is passe. The contemporary liberal atheist is usually a humanist, the worldview that created modernity and elevated the human condition, the one opposing the religious bigots and the authoritarians.