By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[F1fan]

Some people don’t need a physician so good on you, I did and found Jesus Christ who is much more than my healer, I found him to be like He said my all in all and everything.

So needing Jesus is just bad luck.

Well I am lucky to have never needed a Jesus or the religious dogma you rely on. Perhaps you should be happy for us.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Well Christians admit to being sinners so talk about a no win theology.

So are you confessing to being a Christian, thus a liar?

Or do you think yourself sinless like Jesus?

I will give you one more go at this before I ignore you…why? Because you don’t read and pervert what people say.
It’s people that “practice” sin, willful sin and rebellion, that claim to be Christian are liars.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So needing Jesus is just bad luck.

Well I am lucky to have never needed a Jesus or the religious dogma you rely on. Perhaps you should be happy for us.

I did say good on you…you don’t need a physician

 

[ElishaElijah]

As a Christian I found this to be true:
”The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.“
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬-‭8‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[YoursTrue]

it is your *belief*; your *opinion*. others have equally strong beliefs and equally valid opinions that differ from yours. In particular, believers in Islam feel themselves 'saved' in the way you do. They feel that they have 'connected to God'. And they don't see a need to have a relationship to Jesus, because for them Jesus is a man, a prophet, and not a God.

it is trivial to 'grasp what you are saying'. We just find it to be wrong.

That there are different and opposing beliefs is validated in the biblical accounts.

 

[YoursTrue]

The *only* way to determine real motives are actions. You cannot know that there is a 'change of heart' when someone claims to become a Christian any more than I can when they claim to love someone and their actions change to meet that claim.

As you say, the evidence is the same either way. So the conclusion should be the same.

There are some actions that may be discernible by unseen forces. Some crimes can be hidden but I believe God sees everything, and can see the heart of the individual.

 

[F1fan]

I will give you one more go at this before I ignore you…why? Because you don’t read and pervert what people say.

You are not very good at clarity and accuracy. It’s your responsibility to be comprehensible to others. When you make statements that have a certain meaning and you disagree with how others understand your language then you need to be clearer. Christianity has many different interpretations and meanings so we don’t know your particular assumptions and beliefs.

It’s people that “practice” sin, willful sin and rebellion, that claim to be Christian are liars.

OK. Give us examples. And be sure to explain how your view is correct over your fellow Christians.

Would you agree that rejecting facts and science is deliberate sin since it involves self-deception?

 

[F1fan]

There are some actions that may be discernible by unseen forces. Some crimes can be hidden but I believe God sees everything, and can see the heart of the individual.

So if God is this capable then surely God knows when a fetus has genes that will lead to cancer and die. So why doesn’t God intervene and save these children? Or is God just a bystander?

 

[ElishaElijah]

You are not very good at clarity and accuracy. It’s your responsibility to be comprehensible to others. When you make statements that have a certain meaning and you disagree with how others understand your language then you need to be clearer. Christianity has many different interpretations and meanings so we don’t know your particular assumptions and beliefs.

Or you could ask questions instead of assume…but there is tremendous freedom when you ignore people on here, then you can have a real conversation with people, it’s great when you can come to a mutual agreement with people and a conversation can come to an end. Sometimes it doesn’t happen though. It’s been nice but will ignore you now.

 

[Polymath257]

That there are different and opposing beliefs is validated in the biblical accounts.

So? It is a trivial observation. Once again, the question is what it takes to show a belief or opinion is valid. That it is meaningful to *you* or that it is meaningful to *me* is not evidence that it is true.

So, the fact that belief in something has changed your life is *not* evidence that the thing exists.

 

[Polymath257]

There are some actions that may be discernible by unseen forces.

Sure. For example, infrared can help detect things at night when it is hard to see.

Some crimes can be hidden but I believe God sees everything, and can see the heart of the individual.

Ok, you believe that. That is NOT evidence that God exists. It is your opinion. And everyone knew you have that opinion.

The question I have is finding the truth, not mere opinion.

 

[Polymath257]

No this is faulty thinking, the Bible says anyone practicing sin that says they are a Christian are liars. You know them by their fruit

It also says that everyone, including Christians, are sinners.

 

[Polymath257]

Or you could ask questions instead of assume…but there is tremendous freedom when you ignore people on here, then you can have a real conversation with people, it’s great when you can come to a mutual agreement with people and a conversation can come to an end. Sometimes it doesn’t happen though. It’s been nice but will ignore you now.

Were the people who first assembled the Bible together Christians?

 

[ElishaElijah]

It also says that everyone, including Christians, are sinners.

Christians don’t make a habit and lifestyle of sinning and practice, they also don’t promote sinful lifestyles or come into agreement with that. If they do then the Bible says they are lying.
”I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
”This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭ESV‬‬
”Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[F1fan]

Or you could ask questions instead of assume…

I’ve asked many questions that you ignored, including one in my last post asking if rejecting facts snd science is a deliberate sin. That’s a bad habit for someone claiming absolute truth.

but there is tremendous freedom when you ignore people on here, then you can have a real conversation with people

Oh the irony. Why not start with yourself.

, it’s great when you can come to a mutual agreement with people and a conversation can come to an end.

As I noted you need to be coherent and comprehensible if you really have Truth. You are very good at writing what you believe but very bad at showing what you believe is true, or even likely true.

Sometimes it doesn’t happen though. It’s been nice but will ignore you now.

Those not confident in their beliefs will do this.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure. For example, infrared can help detect things at night when it is hard to see.

Ok, you believe that. That is NOT evidence that God exists. It is your opinion. And everyone knew you have that opinion.

The question I have is finding the truth, not mere opinion.

As things unfold in the world, we'll see -- if we are alive.

 

[F1fan]

As things unfold in the world, we'll see -- if we are alive.

Things unfold because science follows facts. Of course many religious extremists reject the science that interferes with their beliefs. We humans thrive due to science, and religion is less and less useful.

 

[YoursTrue]

So? It is a trivial observation. Once again, the question is what it takes to show a belief or opinion is valid. That it is meaningful to *you* or that it is meaningful to *me* is not evidence that it is true.

So, the fact that belief in something has changed your life is *not* evidence that the thing exists.

Here's how Jesus put it about evidence. By the way, I believe what Jesus said. Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in Me does not believe in Me alone, but in the One who sent Me. 45And whoever sees Me sees the One who sent Me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness."
To me, this is true.

 

[Kenny]

As I read the words of Jesus (during his life), he was an apocalyptic prophet trying to warn people of an immanent end-time.. The evidence of his resurrection is paltry.

It was more than just apocalyptic. To find truth, you have to dig for truth. The evidence, however paltry you may view it, changed the known world in a matter of a few years.

 

[shunyadragon]

It was more than just apocalyptic. To find truth, you have to dig for truth. The evidence, however paltry you may view it, changed the known world in a matter of a few years.

I do disagree that fallible humans will find truth by this method, because many people in different conflicting beliefs spend their life looking for and claiming to have 'found' the truth, and unfortunately none of them agree. A few years does not help.