By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit IS the soul.

Hi there. Walt asked you a good question. Which essentially is, how do you get (soul) out of spirit/breath at Ecclesiastes 12:7 ? It would be nice to see how you figure carefully how you figure soul and spirit are the same thing at Eccl. 12:7. Thanks again. Yes, please try to stick to that point...how do you get soul out of spirit/breath at that scripture? Thanks. But if you can't, it's ok, no problem, because you really do not believe what the Bible says anyway as far as I understand your beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does the scripture say soul?

I do not care what the Bible says because I am not a Christian.
Some Christians were able to figure out that a spirit is a soul and some Christians cannot figure that out.

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 208-209

 

[walt]

I do not care what the Bible says because I am not a Christian.
Some Christians were able to figure out that a spirit is a soul and some Christians cannot figure that out.

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 208-209

Thank you so much for the discussion and all your information you have collected, do you have any words from your Holy Scriptures, that all the souls never die?

 

[YoursTrue]

What does this have to do with anything we are discussing?

Only JWs believe that the soul dies. Other Christians know better.

They know better? Do you believe all beliefs of those calling themselves Christians? Obviously not, since you do not believe Jesus is God. Right? You probably know there are many translations that say the soul dies.
Hmm, you raise an interesting question. What do you think happens in hell as far as your religious belief is concerned?
But how is it that you say spirit and soul are the same thing, by the way.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi there. Walt asked you a good question. Which essentially is, how do you get (soul) out of spirit/breath at Ecclesiastes 12:7 ? It would be nice to see how you figure carefully how you figure soul and spirit are the same thing at Eccl. 12:7.

I do not need to figure it out, I know it.

A spirit is a soul. A soul is a spirit. These are two words that mean the same thing in the context of Eccl. 12:7 (and other verses that refer to the afterlife).

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the soul shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not care what the Bible says because I am not a Christian.

Even if you are not what some call Christian, it wouldn't matter insofar as knowledge goes. Thank you for expressing your lack of regard for examining the Bible. really -- Thank you.
"Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4. Thank you for helping. Take care and have a good night.

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not need to figure it out, I know it.

A spirit is a soul. A soul is a spirit. These are two words that mean the same thing in the context of Eccl. 12:7 (and other verses that refer to the afterlife).

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the soul shall return unto God who gave it.

Different strokes for different folks. What happens in hell insofar as your religion is concerned? Anyone go to hell?

 

[walt]

I do not need to figure it out, I know it.

A spirit is a soul. A soul is a spirit. These are two words that mean the same thing in the context of Eccl. 12:7 (and other verses that refer to the afterlife).

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the soul shall return unto God who gave it.

When all the translations of Ecclesiastes 12:7 say spirit or breath, and never soul, isn't it obvious what this scripture is trying to say?

 

[Trailblazer]

They know better? Do you believe all beliefs of those calling themselves Christians? Obviously not, since you do not believe Jesus is God. Right?

That is irrelevant to what we are discussing. Just because Christians who believe that Jesus is God got THAT wrong, that does not mean that they got everything else wrong.

You probably know there are many translations that say the soul dies.

The are verses that say that the soul dies mean that those souls do not have eternal life.
Those verses mean those souls are spiritually dead because they don't have eternal life.
Those verses do not mean that the souls cease to exist. They continue to exist but they do not have eternal life.

Jesus defined eternal life as follows:
John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Hmm, you raise an interesting question. What do you think happens in hell as far as your religious belief is concerned?

Baha'is do not believe there is a place called hell. We believe that hell is the state of a soul who is distant from God.

But how is it that you say spirit and soul are the same thing, by the way.

That is in the Baha'i Writings:

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 208-209

 

[Trailblazer]

When all the translations of Ecclesiastes 12:7 say spirit or breath, and never soul, isn't it obvious what this scripture is trying to say?

A spirit is a soul.

 

[walt]

..

Don't you feel that kindness toward each other is more important, then proving a point? You have a perfect right to believe your way, I think it's very good for all of us to help each other with information, how to go about doing this, I don't know how to do it myself, but I wish I could, someday.

 

[Trailblazer]

Don't you feel that kindness toward each other is more important, then proving a point?

Absolutely, that is the most important thing of all, and the first counsel of Baha'u'llah.

1: O SON OF SPIRIT!
My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 3

 

[YoursTrue]

Absolutely, that is the most important thing of all, and the first counsel of Baha'u'llah.

1: O SON OF SPIRIT!
My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 3

Son of spirit? Son of soul/spirit? What is it? Son of soul? Son of spirit? Either one? which?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not care what the Bible says because I am not a Christian.
Some Christians were able to figure out that a spirit is a soul and some Christians cannot figure that out.

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 208-209

Yes, a spirit is a soul and vice versa. The two words are interchangeable.

It saddens me to hear Christians talk about their personal beliefs about the afterlife, which are typically based on their preferred interpretation of the Bible. This really concerns me because I know that they will most certainly end up like the earthbound female spirit I encouraged to cross over earlier today: lost, confused, and wandering around a church building. She had been there for six months. She didn't understand what was happening to her.

 

[YoursTrue]

Don't you feel that kindness toward each other is more important, then proving a point? You have a perfect right to believe your way, I think it's very good for all of us to help each other with information, how to go about doing this, I don't know how to do it myself, but I wish I could, someday.

I believe and hope it is God's SPIRIT that can help. Shalom, peace.

 

[walt]

Absolutely, that is the most important thing of all, and the first counsel of Baha'u'llah.

1: O SON OF SPIRIT!
My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 3

your scriptures supports immortality of the soul, mine do not.

 

[Trailblazer]

When all the translations of Ecclesiastes 12:7 say spirit or breath, and never soul, isn't it obvious what this scripture is trying to say?

The spirit that returns to God is the soul that returns to God.
It becomes obvious if you look at other verses and understand what they mean.
But I've done that already here so I am not going to do it again.

 

[YoursTrue]

Don't you feel that kindness toward each other is more important, then proving a point? You have a perfect right to believe your way, I think it's very good for all of us to help each other with information, how to go about doing this, I don't know how to do it myself, but I wish I could, someday.

I believe and hope it is God's SPIRIT that can help. Shalom, peace.

Absolutely, that is the most important thing of all, and the first counsel of Baha'u'llah.

1: O SON OF SPIRIT!
My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 3

I'm going to say so long for now, TB. Take care.

 

[Trailblazer]

Son of spirit? Son of soul/spirit? What is it? Son of soul? Son of spirit? Either one? which?

I am not an expert on the Hidden Words so I am not sure who Baha'u'llah was addressing when He wrote O SON OF SPIRIT!
If you ask my friend Duane @Truthseeker he will know since he has studied the Hidden Words extensively.

 

[walt]

I believe and hope it is God's SPIRIT that can help. Shalom, peace.

Thank you for all your kind words and scriptures.