Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The long version.
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“….including Jehovah’s Witnesses…”?
Can you prove this statement?
What did you say to accomplish this feat? What denomination were you?
We know Christendom has no truth. The Bible teaches no hellfire, no Trinity, no immortal soul. Etc.
Surely some of these doctrines are what you at one time believed, right?
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I was attending a Baptist Church every week with my girlfriend at first.
The Cons: I had back in 1979
Note: People told me things about JW people:
1. they don't believe in Jesus.
2. they don't believe in the Trinity.
3. they don't go to War.
4. they don't do birthday parties and Christmas.
5. they don't fellowship with ones in their own congregation that do serious sin and are unrepentant.
6. there seemed to be no good reasons to become a Jehovah's Witness.
The Pros: and Scriptures:
[ Bible Teaching: Jesus is our Lord, the Son of God and God is His God and Father ]
1. "I am God's son" "my Father who is in the heavens" John 10:36, Matt 7:21, John 20:17, Matt 3:17, John 3:16-18, Jn 17:1-3, Matt 11:27, John 3:35,
Luke 10:22, Jn 17:5, Matt 16:13-17, Luke 1:32, Matt 27:54, John 1:34, 49, 11:27; Jn 20:31, Matt 14:33, Jn 6:69, Jn 14:1
2. After Jesus went to heaven, the Apostles still refer to Jesus as Gods Son and God as his Father.
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!" 1 Peter 1:3, Ephesians 1:3, 17; 2 Cor 1:3, 11:31; Romans 15:6, Rev 1:1, 6;
1 Cor 15:24, Col 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, 1 Tim 2:5, 2 Jn 3, 2 Pet 1:17, Gal 4:4, Heb 4:14, Romans 8:3, 32; 1 John 4:9-10, Acts 9:20, Hebrews 1:2,
1 John 4:15, 5:13; 1 Cor 15:47, 1 Cor 3:23, 11:3, 15:27-28
3. Jesus and the Apostles gave New Instructions for Peace & Love of your enemies and Jesus said to have Love among yourselves. 1 Peter 3:11, John 13:34-35, 1 Thes 5:13, Mark 9:50, 2 Cor 13:11, Heb 12:14, James 3:17-18, Matt 7:12, Luke 6:31, Luke 6:22-23, 27, 28: 1 Peter 3:14, John 16:2,
Matt 5:10-11, Matt 5:43-48, Romans 12:14-20, 14:19; Acts 7:59-60, 1 John 3:16, 1 Cor 4:12, 1 Pet 2:23, 3:9; 1 Thes 5:15, 2 Tim 2:24, Matt 26:52, Mk 12:31, Gal 5:14,
4. 5. & 6. soon to come. Thanks for your patience.
The Cons: I had back in 1979
Note: People told me things about JW people:
1. they don't believe in Jesus.
2. they don't believe in the Trinity.
3. they don't go to War.
4. they don't do birthday parties and Christmas.
5. they don't fellowship with ones in their own congregation that do serious sin and are unrepentant.
6. there seemed to be no good reasons to become a Jehovah's Witness.
The Pros: and Scriptures:
[ Bible Teaching: Jesus is our Lord, the Son of God and God is His God and Father ]
1. "I am God's son" "my Father who is in the heavens" John 10:36, Matt 7:21, John 20:17, Matt 3:17, John 3:16-18, Jn 17:1-3, Matt 11:27, John 3:35,
Luke 10:22, Jn 17:5, Matt 16:13-17, Luke 1:32, Matt 27:54, John 1:34, 49, 11:27; Jn 20:31, Matt 14:33, Jn 6:69, Jn 14:1
2. After Jesus went to heaven, the Apostles still refer to Jesus as Gods Son and God as his Father.
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!" 1 Peter 1:3, Ephesians 1:3, 17; 2 Cor 1:3, 11:31; Romans 15:6, Rev 1:1, 6;
1 Cor 15:24, Col 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, 1 Tim 2:5, 2 Jn 3, 2 Pet 1:17, Gal 4:4, Heb 4:14, Romans 8:3, 32; 1 John 4:9-10, Acts 9:20, Hebrews 1:2,
1 John 4:15, 5:13; 1 Cor 15:47, 1 Cor 3:23, 11:3, 15:27-28
3. Jesus and the Apostles gave New Instructions for Peace & Love of your enemies and Jesus said to have Love among yourselves. 1 Peter 3:11, John 13:34-35, 1 Thes 5:13, Mark 9:50, 2 Cor 13:11, Heb 12:14, James 3:17-18, Matt 7:12, Luke 6:31, Luke 6:22-23, 27, 28: 1 Peter 3:14, John 16:2,
Matt 5:10-11, Matt 5:43-48, Romans 12:14-20, 14:19; Acts 7:59-60, 1 John 3:16, 1 Cor 4:12, 1 Pet 2:23, 3:9; 1 Thes 5:15, 2 Tim 2:24, Matt 26:52, Mk 12:31, Gal 5:14,
4. 5. & 6. soon to come. Thanks for your patience.
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walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
4. Does the Bible talk about Birthdays? Yes. Do God's servants celebrate a Birthday or Christmas?
Genesis 40:20-22; Mark 6:21-29; "keep doing this" Luke 22:17-20; Ecclesiastes 7:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:6; 1 Corinthians 11:2; Matthew 7:11; 2 Corinthians 6:17; Romans 12:1, 2; John 4:23, 24
Genesis 40:20-22; Mark 6:21-29; "keep doing this" Luke 22:17-20; Ecclesiastes 7:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:6; 1 Corinthians 11:2; Matthew 7:11; 2 Corinthians 6:17; Romans 12:1, 2; John 4:23, 24
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Sorry, but I just wanted you to know that I looked up every single reference you gave and none of them discusses birthdays or Christmases at all, unless you count the birthday of Herod, in Mark (I think), where, well, the emphasis seems to be on Herod's BEHAVIOR, not celebrating his birthday.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Genesis talks about Pharaoh's birthday and Mark talks about Herod's birthday. There seems to be no reference in the Bible, to a servant of God having a celebration on their birthday, Herod gave a banquet and on Pharaoh's birthday, he made a feast.
Isn't there a difference with God's servants? Do they have a celebration on their birthday?
The scriptures I mention is what I consider, and any other scriptures that anyone knows about.
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walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Kathryn I feel we have a strong bond, we believe differently, but we both Love Jesus and his Father very much
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Like I said, I believe that the emphasis should be on BEHAVIOR and not the celebration of birthdays. But do whatever you want. Meanwhile, I have a whole birth MONTH - LOL.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the thoughts of the mind perish but the thoughts of the spirit go on.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Most people would agree with you, "the thoughts of the spirit go on"
I think it is good to explain every detail of my beliefs with scriptures alone, leaving out my own thoughts. Sometimes that is hard to do, do you feel it is good to understand things from the Bible's perspective?
Ecc 3:20 "All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust" 1 Kings 2:10 "Then David died and was buried with his ancestors in the City of David. John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their tombs/graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned" John 11:24 "Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
Gen 3:19 "In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” Thes 4:13 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope." Acts 2:27 For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy One to rot in the grave. Acts 24:15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust" John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Please take a look, I do believe that these scriptures are not taken out of context, it is very common for the Bible's words to all of a sudden start on different subjects.
All Bible translations use some of these inspired details, do you feel it is good to explain your beliefs with scriptures?
1. "all return to dust" Ecc 3:20, 9:10; Gen 3:19, Job 10:9, Ps 104:29, 146:4
2. "slept with his fathers", "died" 1 Kings 2:10, 1 Thess 4:13-14, Jn 11:11, Acts 7:60, 1 Cor 15:6, Acts 13:36
3. "Grave", "Tomb", "Sheol", "Hades" John 5:28-29, Job 14:13, 1 Sam 2:6, Acts 2:27
4. "will rise", "resurrected" Isaiah 26:19, Acts 24:15, Rev 20:12, Luke 23:42, Dan 12:2
5. "on the last day." John 11:24, John 6:40, 44, 54, 12:48; Dan 12:13, Acts 17:31
Either way it is worded, do we value the Bible to explain every detail of our beliefs? So much effort and research has been given to translate every word, we can find some good information in every Bible, do you agree?
Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." John 11:11 After He had said this, He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to wake him up.” Job 14:13 O that thou wouldst hide me in the grave, that thou wouldst keep me secret, until thy wrath is past, that thou wouldst appoint me a set time, and remember me! Isaiah 26:19 But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ps 104:29 When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their spirit/breath, they die and return to the dust. Acts 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan 12:13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”
New King James Version
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” -Genesis 3:19
New King James Version
All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Ecclesiastes 3:20
...........................
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 1 Thess 4:13 NIV
New Living Translation
And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope.
English Standard Version
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
Berean Standard Bible
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
Amplified Bible
Now we do not want you to be uninformed, believers, about those who are asleep [in death], so that you will not grieve [for them] as the others do who have no hope [beyond this present life].
New King James Version
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
Good News Translation
Our friends, we want you to know the truth about those who have died, so that you will not be sad, as are those who have no hope.
...........................
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And David fell asleep with his fathers and he was buried in the city of David. -1 Kings 2:10
New International Version
Then David rested with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David.
New Living Translation
Then David died and was buried with his ancestors in the City of David.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
David lay down in death with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David.
...........................
New American Standard Bible
Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29
and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. -John 5:28-29
New International Version
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29
and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. -John 5:28-29
New King James Version
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” -John 11:24, Isaiah 26:19, Acts 24:15, Rev 20:12, John 6:40, 44, 54, 12:48
Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." John 11:11 After He had said this, He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to wake him up.” Job 14:13 O that thou wouldst hide me in the grave, that thou wouldst keep me secret, until thy wrath is past, that thou wouldst appoint me a set time, and remember me! Isaiah 26:19 But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ps 104:29 When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their spirit/breath, they die and return to the dust. Acts 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan 12:13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”
New King James Version
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” -Genesis 3:19
New King James Version
All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Ecclesiastes 3:20
...........................
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 1 Thess 4:13 NIV
New Living Translation
And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope.
English Standard Version
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
Berean Standard Bible
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
Amplified Bible
Now we do not want you to be uninformed, believers, about those who are asleep [in death], so that you will not grieve [for them] as the others do who have no hope [beyond this present life].
New King James Version
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
Good News Translation
Our friends, we want you to know the truth about those who have died, so that you will not be sad, as are those who have no hope.
...........................
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And David fell asleep with his fathers and he was buried in the city of David. -1 Kings 2:10
New International Version
Then David rested with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David.
New Living Translation
Then David died and was buried with his ancestors in the City of David.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
David lay down in death with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David.
...........................
New American Standard Bible
Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29
and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. -John 5:28-29
New International Version
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29
and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. -John 5:28-29
New King James Version
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” -John 11:24, Isaiah 26:19, Acts 24:15, Rev 20:12, John 6:40, 44, 54, 12:48
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Some Bible's explain things in different words, I think we can get a pretty good idea of the Bible's perspective, reading any Bible.
I agree with you those two scriptural explanations are not mutually exclusive, many Bibles word things differently, but I think we can gain understanding from most any Bible don't you agree?
There is two more scriptures only examples in the Spoiler. Thank you for your words.
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
All I'm trying to point out is that a god who creates universes could also easily have designed evolution as a part of that universe.Some Bible's explain things in different words, I think we can get a pretty good idea of the Bible's perspective, reading any Bible.
I agree with you those two scriptural explanations are not mutually exclusive, many Bibles word things differently, But I think we can gain understanding from most any Bible don't you agree?
(I don't actually believe gods exist and/or have created anything. Just pointing out the above.)
‘Thoughts of the spirit’?
Where’s that in Scripture?
Only a mind produces thoughts.
Muffled, i know that you respect the Bible.
Please read the specific Genesis account (2:16,17) where God told Adam he would die if he ate from the TKGE.
God did NOT explain what death was, did He? Don’t you think that would be important, to know such details? If at their death Adam and Eve were going to ‘live in another realm,’ God should have told them; reveal all the consequences of their disobedience. But God didn’t say anything more!
Adam must have already known what death was. How?
By seeing the animals die!
There is no difference between animals dying & humans dying. This is supported by Ecclesiastes 3:19,20.
Please notice what God told Adam after he sinned…Genesis 3:19… “Yo u will return to the ground for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Just like animals.
The only difference is that humans are promised a resurrection at a future time. Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29; John 6:40.
Take care.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
As a spiritualist, I believe that our consciousness "lives on" as a form of energy, which I refer to as our spirit and/or soul. I also believe that we will retain our memories, along with our personality after death, but we will acquire a much broader perspective than what we have now. I believe that once we die, we are free of the physical and psychological constraints of our humanity, allowing us to see and understand beyond what we see and understand now.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
5. they don't fellowship with ones in their own congregation that do serious sin and are unrepentant.I was attending a Baptist Church every week with my girlfriend at first.
The Cons: I had back in 1979
Note: People told me things about JW people:
1. they don't believe in Jesus.
2. they don't believe in the Trinity.
3. they don't go to War.
4. they don't do birthday parties and Christmas.
5. they don't fellowship with ones in their own congregation that do serious sin and are unrepentant.
6. there seemed to be no good reasons to become a Jehovah's Witness.
The Pros: and Scriptures:
[ Bible Teaching: Jesus is our Lord, the Son of God and God is His God and Father ]
1. "I am God's son" "my Father who is in the heavens" John 10:36, Matt 7:21, John 20:17, Matt 3:17, John 3:16-18, Jn 17:1-3, Matt 11:27, John 3:35,
Luke 10:22, Jn 17:5, Matt 16:13-17, Luke 1:32, Matt 27:54, John 1:34, 49, 11:27; Jn 20:31, Matt 14:33, Jn 6:69, Jn 14:1
2. After Jesus went to heaven, the Apostles still refer to Jesus as Gods Son and God as his Father.
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!" 1 Peter 1:3, Ephesians 1:3, 17; 2 Cor 1:3, 11:31; Romans 15:6, Rev 1:1, 6;
1 Cor 15:24, Col 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, 1 Tim 2:5, 2 Jn 3, 2 Pet 1:17, Gal 4:4, Heb 4:14, Romans 8:3, 32; 1 John 4:9-10, Acts 9:20, Hebrews 1:2,
1 John 4:15, 5:13; 1 Cor 15:47, 1 Cor 3:23, 11:3, 15:27-28
3. Jesus and the Apostles gave New Instructions for Peace & Love of your enemies and Jesus said to have Love among yourselves. 1 Peter 3:11, John 13:34-35, 1 Thes 5:13, Mark 9:50, 2 Cor 13:11, Heb 12:14, James 3:17-18, Matt 7:12, Luke 6:31, Luke 6:22-23, 27, 28: 1 Peter 3:14, John 16:2,
Matt 5:10-11, Matt 5:43-48, Romans 12:14-20, 14:19; Acts 7:59-60, 1 John 3:16, 1 Cor 4:12, 1 Pet 2:23, 3:9; 1 Thes 5:15, 2 Tim 2:24, Matt 26:52, Mk 12:31, Gal 5:14,
4. 5. & 6. soon to come. Thanks for your patience.
What did Paul tell the congregation to do?
This is one example in the Bible of how the Apostle Paul advised the congregation.
In the first century how did they handle a serious sinner? 1 Corinthians 5:1-2, 1 Corinthians 5:11, 13
The congregation responded: 2 Corinthians 7:6-7
The wrongdoer had repented of his sins: 2 Cor. 7:8-11
This person became repentant and the congregation kindly forgave him and comforted him: 2 Corinthians 2:5-8
Other scriptures: Act 3:19, Luke 15:11-24; Hebrews 12:11, 2 Corinthians 2:10-11, Psalms 86:5, Micah 7:18, Isaiah 55:7, 1 Corinthians 15:33, 2 Peter 3:9
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walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Does the Bible teach some will be destroyed once, and this punishment is permanent, lasting forever?
Or does the Bible teach some people will burn in Hell feeling pain for millions of years?
1 John 4:8 "God is love"
Would a God of love torture people and make them feel pain, burning for all eternity? Does the Bible actually say this?
Or does the Bible teach some people will burn in Hell feeling pain for millions of years?
1 John 4:8 "God is love"
Would a God of love torture people and make them feel pain, burning for all eternity? Does the Bible actually say this?
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bible says neither one of those things. Religious dogma teaches those things since people misinterpreted the Bib;e.
No, God would not do that and the Bible does not say that.1 John 4:8 "God is love"
Would a God of love torture people and make them feel pain, burning for all eternity? Does the Bible actually say this?
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I agree with you,
I am interested in a understanding that includes all the scriptures on the subject, not just a few scriptures.I would like to try to explain everything with only scriptures if I can, none of my own ideas, please.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please post those scriptures that you believe support your beliefs regarding what happens to evil people when they die.