California student group bans American flag from lobby

[gsa]

Wtf are you talking about? This is a valid critique, whether it be for students who are actually doing work in a university setting (science majors vs arts majors) or the masses (poor vs rich). If a system does not represent the majority of the people, then it is flawed. If the process is so detached from the majority, then it is flawed. Adding words like 'liberal' and 'democracy' doesn't make it perfect.

It resembles the Marxist critique of liberal democracy.

Liberal democracy is not the same as liberalism, btw.

 

[MD]

It resembles the Marxist critique of liberal democracy.

Liberal democracy is not the same as liberalism, btw.

Well not all Marxism is wrong.

I am not a poli sci major and I don't know all these differences. But what I do know is that if segments of the population aren't being represented, then the system is flawed. And let's be honest, science and engineering are pretty much the bread and butter of Universities. The long arduous hours people in those fields put in leaves them with almost no time to participate in the electoral process. The same way in American society the rich can sway the political process due to their money. In both examples the resources are unequally distributed, in the university example the resource is time and in the American example it's wealth.

 

[Laika]

I'm with the students on this; I despise overt signs of nationalism because I associate it with militarism. I don't see it as representing the 'values' of the system of government but the history of that government.

The UK spend the past three centuries traveling round the world committing genocide, enslaving people and rewarding itself with large areas of land mass. The final insult was the first world war when a whole generation was slaughtered out of a misplaced sense of national pride. When ever I see a union flag flying, my gut response is to think whether the person flying it is a member of the BNP/fascist. I'm ok with it during the football season as it means someone supporting the national team, but otherwise I find it sickening. I wouldn't go as far as calling it hate speech, but I get there point. In the US, the flag has a propaganda value which is doesn't have in the UK. The US is THE world power and is the symbol of imperialism and colonialism in the world today.

If I was going to compromise, Personally, if you want to celebrate US values, put up the constitution of the united states or the declaration of independence in the lobby. That way people know what the US was founded on, what there rights our, what there ideals stand for. they can debate them and understand them, and disagree as they have the right to do so. I think that is more fitting for a place of learning. The constitution is a promise Americans have to keep with themselves to defend; not a piece of cloth to lie on a coffin to make people 'feel better' about losing loved ones on battlefields. screw the symbol; go straight for the documents on which the country was founded and governed. that would be a celebration of US values as it isn't about symbolism but is deeply practical; that the people know their rights and keep those freedoms alive.

Edit: Bill Maher also makes the point well about how greatness is not intrinsic and has to be earned.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm with the students on this; I despise overt signs of nationalism because I associate it with militarism. I don't see it as representing the 'values' of the system of government but the history of that government.

The UK spend the past three centuries traveling round the world committing genocide, enslaving people and rewarding itself with large areas of land mass. The final insult was the first world war when a whole generation was slaughtered out of a misplaced sense of national pride. When ever I see a union flag flying, my gut response is to think whether the person flying it is a member of the BNP/fascist. I'm ok with it during the football season as it means someone supporting the national team, but otherwise I find it sickening. I wouldn't go as far as calling it hate speech, but I get there point. In the US, the flag has a propaganda value which is doesn't have in the UK. The US is THE world power and is the symbol of imperialism and colonialism in the world today.

If I was going to compromise, Personally, if you want to celebrate US values, put up the constitution of the united states or the declaration of independence in the lobby. That way people know what the US was founded on, what there rights our, what there ideals stand for. they can debate them and understand them, and disagree as they have the right to do so. I think that is more fitting for a place of learning. The constitution is a promise Americans have to keep with themselves to defend; not a piece of cloth to lie on a coffin to make people 'feel better' about losing loved ones on battlefields. screw the symbol; go straight for the documents on which the country was founded and governed. that would be a celebration of US values as it isn't about symbolism but is deeply practical; that the people know their rights and keep those freedoms alive.

Edit: Bill Maher also makes the point well about how greatness is not intrinsic and has to be earned.

Yeah, I disagree with all that. But I'm not a Marxist and I'd rather live in America than in a ton of other places.

 

[Laika]

Yeah, I disagree with all that. But I'm not a Marxist and I'd rather live in America than in a ton of other places.

It isn't simply a question of Marxism. The founding fathers would be extremely uncomfortable having the largest defense budget in the world and the fact it is larger than the next 15/16 countries combined. That poses a direct threat to individual liberty within the US, the bill of rights, the principle of limited government, and massively expands the scope of executive power of the president to wage war. The US flag has become symbolic of the right of the US to wage war in any part of the world out of a belief of American Exceptionalism. Any liberal or libertarian worth their salt will recognize "might does not make right". I don't think they'd ban the flag though.

 

[McBell]

The US Flag symbolizes different things for different people.

So What?

 

[Valjean]

Well those who vote decide. That's how democracy works, at every level.

But the US is not a democracy: BBC News - Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

Moreover, the US has been undermining democracies and pillaging the rest of the world for 200 years. The US is not a benign force for good. The US is a rapacious empire. The US is Rome.

 

[columbus]

Thanks.

I read most of the reasons and failed to see how many related to their "Let it be resolved" positions.

I've clicked this link twice now.

I still don't see any reasons for banning the flag of the USA.

Nowhere on that page is there an explanation of why they did this.

I have a permanent flag holder on my front porch with a USA flag in it. It is not a symbol of past wrongs, it is a symbol of idealism. What could be, by rising above the wrongs of the past.

The USA is hugely imperfect. Things need to be done far better than we used to do. I am more than willing to ***** about past wrongs. Hell, I'll ***** about current ones.

But I am still proud of the gains made so far.

Waves the flag proudly!


Tom

 

[tytlyf]

The ban was never initiated and the bid was overturned. But Todd Starnes would want you to believe it was banned. (notice nowhere in this article does it mention a ban on other flags besides 'old glory'). Ignore comments at bottom.

Todd's American Dispatch: University Reverses American Flag Ban - Fox Nation

 

[rocala]

If you create a middle class, expect pansies.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've clicked this link twice now.

I still don't see any reasons for banning the flag of the USA.

Nowhere on that page is there an explanation of why they did this.

I have a permanent flag holder on my front porch with a USA flag in it. It is not a symbol of past wrongs, it is a symbol of idealism. What could be, by rising above the wrongs of the past.

The USA is hugely imperfect. Things need to be done far better than we used to do. I am more than willing to ***** about past wrongs. Hell, I'll ***** about current ones.

But I am still proud of the gains made so far.

Waves the flag proudly!


Tom

This, exactly.

The flag stands for America as an ideal, what America has been striving to become for all of its history.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you create a middle class, expect pansies.

I have a feeling that those who supported this are PC yuppie types from the suburbs. Irvine is in Orange County, after all.

 

[tytlyf]

But the US is not a democracy: BBC News - Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

Moreover, the US has been undermining democracies and pillaging the rest of the world for 200 years. The US is not a benign force for good. The US is a rapacious empire. The US is Rome.

I agree, republicans vote for corporate policies and not the middle class. This is the end result. Republicans have created a fascist America. Everything the conservative republican ideology stands for is fascist.

Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Beware the False Patriots

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Though I'm all for doing away with nationalism and national identity, doing it over reasons of guilt is not the way to do it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I agree, republicans vote for corporate policies and not the middle class. This is the end result. Republicans have created a fascist America. Everything the conservative republican ideology stands for is fascist.

Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Beware the False Patriots

Forgot to add democrats to that list. Try living in New York for a bit.

 

[tytlyf]

Forgot to add democrats to that list. Try living in New York for a bit.

That's a pretty direct list I presented, care to show 1 instance of democrats doing something in that list?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Let's see......

Most recent after the soda wars....

Ah....

Sheldon Silver arrested for taking $4M in bribes, kickbacks | New York Post


Good riddence to entrenched trash.


.

 

[tytlyf]

Let's see......

Most recent after the soda wars....

Ah....

Sheldon Silver arrested for taking $4M in bribes, kickbacks | New York Post


Good riddence to entrenched trash.


.

And which one of the 14 fascist rules did he break? You see, wealthy democrats aren't anti-science, anti-education, anti-equal rights, anti-brown people you know... I'm surprised you didn't bust out a Soros or something. Just go for Warren Buffett, Steve Jobs, etc. They vote democrat, they aren't fascists like the Kochs. The oligarchs on the right (libertarian fascists) are the Kochs. They have congress under their control and RW media doing bidding for them.

It would also help in the future if you didn't cite questionable Rupert sources as well. You're sourcing fascists.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And which one of the 14 fascist rules did he break? You see, wealthy democrats aren't anti-science, anti-education, anti-equal rights, anti-brown people you know... I'm surprised you didn't bust out a Soros or something. Just go for Warren Buffett, Steve Jobs, etc. They vote democrat, they aren't fascists like the Kochs. The oligarchs on the right (libertarian fascists) are the Kochs. They have congress under their control and RW media doing bidding for them.

I find it ironic that you have Ted Nugent as your avatar.

Also, Steve Jobs isn't voting for anything anymore. He's dead. Apple has no problems with using third world sweatshops. My iPod that I'm listening to was made in China. I don't guess that the workers at that factory are treated wonderfully. "Designed by Apple in California. Manufactured in China". Lol.

 

[tytlyf]

And which one of the 14 fascist rules did he break? You see, wealthy democrats aren't anti-science, anti-education, anti-equal rights, anti-brown people you know... I'm surprised you didn't bust out a Soros or something. Just go for Warren Buffett, Steve Jobs, etc. They vote democrat, they aren't fascists like the Kochs.

I find it ironic that you have Ted Nugent as your avatar.

Also, Steve Jobs isn't voting for anything anymore. He's dead.

doesn't matter if he's dead. He's filthy rich and voted democrat. LIke most sane minded billionaires who put the human race first over profits. I'd assume they were atheists as well.
What's wrong with Nugent? He's a loud mouth imbecile who does the bidding for the NRA propagandists. Any time there is a tragic event in America, we can always rely on the NRA to stir up the propaganda to scare the most vulnerable Americans into buying more guns and ammo. Just look at what happened recently with the so-called AR15 ammo ban that supposedly was orchestrated by Obama. ahhaha, there is no bottom to the barrel on the right.