I find it very difficult to be kind to someone who is so obviously blind and does not have an open mind. These theologians have been studying the field for all of their careers. They study the original manuscripts in the original languages to offset any inherent bias that may come from language constraints. I think what you would prefer are people who study this field with the intent of proving the Bible, etc, as true. Any credible scholar would never accept their opinions as they enter the argument biased. IE: what you want are Christian apologists who argue the veracity of the Bible simple because they say so. Most do not speak or read Aramaic, or Koine Greek or Hebrew. Furthermore, these credible scholars study the extant gospels and any and all writings of the period that have any indication of the field of Christianity. They study Buddhism to see the links between the two, as well as Egyptian, ancient Greece and Rome and so on. Truth is found within the self, not in the study of theology itself. And truth can never ever be found in a book.
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Can a believer...
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
LASTINGLIGHT
Member
I agree totally. After studying the real history of the New Testament, (I did not like what I found, but was forced to admit it was the truth) I then studied Buddhism, Taoism, Mazdaism, Marcionism, Manicheanism, Jainism, Sikhism and Brahmanism. Taoism is the hardest to understand, and the original Gathas of Zarathustra the easiest.
peanutbutter63
Member
Response to the OP...
1. Without scriptural knowledge, one does not know what He wants
2. People speaking for God?....yeah, there must millions of them out there. I avoid them...
1. Without scriptural knowledge, one does not know what He wants
2. People speaking for God?....yeah, there must millions of them out there. I avoid them...
That depends strongly on what kind of Scripture we are talking about.
Ciao
- viole
peanutbutter63
Member
Bible for the Christians, Koran for the Moslems...
Ok, so only knowledge of Scripture will allow us to know what THEY think.
Ciao
- viole
peanutbutter63
Member
Read, and think for yourself...if you're a Believer. Butttt...as an atheist, probably none of this should matter to you. The fields of science and mathematics are good things to take up..
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes we can, I hear god all the time, in fact its my own inner voice that I hear, not some voice from some man in the sky lol.
Of course it matters. If there is a God, I would like to know.
A very first line of evidence would be if all believers have the same idea of God. But as long as their idea of God depends on mutually contradicting Scriptures, we can conclude that all believers in any religion (except one, at best) are delusional. And if it is true that this mass delusion derives from reading a book and thinking for oneself, I am not sure that this is a very reliable method to come to truths in this area.
Don't you think?
Ciao
- viole
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Na, give up the idea of a god and simply live your life as best as you can, we don't need a negative nelly controlling our life.
peanutbutter63
Member
Of course it matters. If there is a God, I would like to know
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ME: Why you'd like to know if there is a God or not when it's obviously far from being your priorities is beyond me. You certainly won't know any better or any worse by hearing from people. What you'll hear and absorb are things you want to hear...and nothing else...
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A very first line of evidence would be if all believers have the same idea of God.
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ME: It will never happen, and I'll show you later...
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But as long as their idea of God depends on mutually contradicting Scriptures, we can conclude that all believers in any religion (except one, at best) are delusional.
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ME: There you go! You've answered your own questions without asking anybody else. Just follow your own opinions...
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And if it is true that this mass delusion derives from reading a book and thinking for oneself, I am not sure that this is a very reliable method to come to truths in this area.
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ME: TRUTH....TRUTHS.....as I suggested, just follow your own truths...
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Don't you think?
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ME: No idea....thinking too much is not my strong points....*laughter*....
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Ciao
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ME: Hasta la vista, baby....
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ME: Why you'd like to know if there is a God or not when it's obviously far from being your priorities is beyond me. You certainly won't know any better or any worse by hearing from people. What you'll hear and absorb are things you want to hear...and nothing else...
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A very first line of evidence would be if all believers have the same idea of God.
--------------------------------------------------------------
ME: It will never happen, and I'll show you later...
------------------------------------------------------------------
But as long as their idea of God depends on mutually contradicting Scriptures, we can conclude that all believers in any religion (except one, at best) are delusional.
----------------------------------------------
ME: There you go! You've answered your own questions without asking anybody else. Just follow your own opinions...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
And if it is true that this mass delusion derives from reading a book and thinking for oneself, I am not sure that this is a very reliable method to come to truths in this area.
--------------------------------------------------------
ME: TRUTH....TRUTHS.....as I suggested, just follow your own truths...
---------------------------------------------------------
Don't you think?
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ME: No idea....thinking too much is not my strong points....*laughter*....
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Ciao
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ME: Hasta la vista, baby....
peanutbutter63
Member
...and this is why there will always be different versions of God...enjoy!....*laughter*....
peanutbutter63
Member
Exactly!...thank you! I don't agree with your 'nelly' bit, but I support your democratic right to hold to your conscience...
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Ahh, your too kind.
This is a non sequitur. The set of things I would like to know is not necessarily the set of things that have priority for me. For instance, I would like to know if there is intelligent life outside of earth, but that does not entail that I should immediately join the SETI Program.
Bummer.
Do you think that our opinions contribute effectively towards assessing truths about the Universe?
I am not sure there is such a thing like my own truths. If I hold truth X and you hold truth ~X, don't you think that one of us holds a non-truth mistaken as truth?
You never know. I think the vast majority of people can think too much and properly, if they want. You should try. Dangerous, but fun.
Ciao
- viole
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe to the best of my knowledge the Buddha never said his illumination came from God. Tao is unfamiliar to me but my understanding is that it is naturalistic man's wisdom.
I don't believe there is any evidence of this.
I believe I am unfamiliar with the source for this but it is possible to have more than one account of historical events.
I believe on e ought to say how one knows God well enough to say this. I know God very well and find it to be othewise.
Muffled
Jesus in me
There is a suggestion in the text that Muhammad heard from God directly. There is certainly a dicholtomy between earlier suras where the word "say" indicates that the angel is telling Muhammad what to say and later suras that don't have that.
I don't believe that was the intention. I believe Allah ties in the Bible so that Muslims will have an opportunity to get a more complete word than that which is written in the Qu'ran.
Hmm, then it is possible that God did indeed talk to Muhammad pbuh directly. Thank you for bringing that up so I can search more and correct my knowledge.(1*)
I do believe that what you suggest is indeed true as an intention by God since Islamic Heritage does mention Muhammad (pbuh) (2*) borrowing teachings from Judaism and Christianity after all. As for my point, I said it because the Quran mentions implications and even direct statements of it. The Quran does say "the Abrahamic doctrine/denomination" and following it (which covers the three religions), instead of just Islam, in so many places, as well as telling stories of God with others like Abraham, David, Moses, Jesus and others (pbut) (3*). The Quran does also says that Jesus (PBUH) told his people that someone after him will carry his legacy and that someone is called Ahmed (another name among others the Quran uses for Muhammad) (pbuh). I heard some interpretations that the OT does mention Muhammad (pbuh) and God in a way that sounds similar to their reference names in Arabic (Allah for God), but I'm not to take that for granted for now. It is still there tho even if it is debatable.(1*)
Note:
1- I changed the colors to their least vibrant versions for easier reading.
2- Pbuh = peace be upon him.
3- Pbut = peace be upon them.
Here is the problem I have with this. Yes, I think I understand when you say you can hear this inner voice. I have at times too. I even presumed to be able to determine the difference between my own thoughts and this "voice" which seemed to provide great insights to the "divine" nature of existence.
The problem is that I know the mind is very capable of creating the perception of an entity which appears to be separate from myself which in which I have no conscious awareness of this creation. I know this because it happens all the time when I dream. My mind creates numerous people that all appear autonomous, act and speak independently of my conscious awareness assuming you can call it conscious awareness while I'm dreaming.
I sometimes have lucid dreams were I know I'm dreaming but still can interact with this apparently autonomous people in the dream.
So I understand your hearing the voice of "God" but how can you know this is not some autonomous creation of your subconscious that you are simply not aware of creating. It could all be internal for all we know.
It could also explain why there are so many different variations of Gods. Or subconscious mind creates a God based on our culture, belief and experiences.
I'm not saying this is the truth of the matter, I'm just saying how I can see this is completely possible.
Prophets "heard" God. I think they did hear this "voice" of God. It seems not uncommon, I'm just not sure this is the voice of a divine external being.
At the same time, if divinity is internal, it could be your own divine inner voice. I just don't see this guaranteeing that you are going to find out there, external to yourself, some God. Maybe it's just you.