Can a human be more compassionate and merciful than God (in your opinion)

[Spiderman]

Beauty in what??

آل عمران
وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. (85)

Sounds like a verse written by a man who wants to control people.

I said there was beauty in those you mentioned who are content with poverty and suffering in this life for riches in the next...there is no beauty in that verse you quoted. That is his ugly bigotry.

The author of the Koran fantasized about torturing unbelievers in this life and the next. How do you know Muhammad wasn't being deceived by an evil spirit?

 

[Spiderman]

Why do you feel God(s) should be compassionate?

I see it as a noble quality...I don't like to see people in agony and I don't care for sadists

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Why do you feel God(s) should be compassionate?

Because they - or, to be more accurate, their followers - claim they are. It's hardly unreasonable to expect that a god presented as morally perfect would not lie about or misrepresent itself; nor encourage its worshippers to do as such.

 

[james bond]

So, if I was omnipotent (the quality of having unlimited power) I would heal people of mental and physical illnesses. I would fill with joy and euphoria every sad, lonely, depressed, and miserable person. I would heal all infirmities and mental illness. I would give pedophiles and sexual deviants a healthy sexuality so that they don't feel inclined to commit acts that harm themselves or others. I would heal all people of drug, sexual, or other addictions

I would enlighten all people to know the truth. I would speak clear messages to people that seek me so that they could write down word-for-word my instructions (So there would be no confusion). I would elect world leaders who were the most wise and compassionate people on earth, and I would guide their every decision so that they knew what was best for the people.

Would we have a better world if that was done?

I would let no one be tortured for all eternity in hell. I find that people who do evil are often suffering a lot. No one wakes up in the morning and says "I'm feeling so good today, I want to go kill a bunch of people" . Consequently, I feel compassion for such people already and dread the idea of them suffering forever. Either heal them, transform them, or put them out of their misery.

I'm reading a book by Allan Kardec "The Spirit's book". It's a great read if you haven't read it. He interacts with spirits and they answer all his questions about spirits. They claim that the Spirit existed before it was incarnated and that this body is just one temporary outfit. They tell him that every spirit will be purified and made perfect eventually, but for some it will take many thousands of years and many lifetimes.

I have to agree that this belief is far more just, compassionate, merciful, and rational than the belief that people will be tortured forever and ever because of what they did or believed in this brief life (which is one-second compared to eternity....why punish someone eternally because of what they did with one-second, especially when you consider that they were blind, confused, unenlightened, and naturally inclined to sin).

Please answer the poll if you could. Please be honest about it. I'm asking what is the most compassionate approach. You might firmly believe that eternal torture is what is in store for unbelievers, but do you truly find that to be the most compassionate approach?

Sorry, you act like Adam and Eve didn't do nothing. They had it all and perfection and we've would've had it all, but it didn't happen that way. The only way it would not have happened is if they obeyed God or God made them without free will. I suppose one could ask why God gave free will to the angels? They didn't have a Tree of Knowledge as temptation, but some rose to defy God.

 

[Terese]

I do not believe anyone is more compassionate and merciful than God, Although many times He says otherwise

 

[lovesong]

In your poll you forgot the "let people do as they please" option. Letting people live the way they want to live is more compassionate that punishing them or forcing them to change to meet your standards.

 

[Spiderman]

In your poll you forgot the "let people do as they please" option. Letting people live the way they want to live is more compassionate that punishing them or forcing them to change to meet your standards.

That is a good option, but religious people would never see that as good. I'm trying to come up with options that religious people will see as better than the belief in eternal misery. So, I'm asking which of those three options sounds best.

Me personally, I'd prefer God let people do as they please, but if he knows what will make them happiest, that he/she eventually and gradually lead them there.

 

[Spiderman]

Sorry, you act like Adam and Eve didn't do nothing. They had it all and perfection and we've would've had it all, but it didn't happen that way. The only way it would not have happened is if they obeyed God or God made them without free will. I suppose one could ask why God gave free will to the angels? They didn't have a Tree of Knowledge as temptation, but some rose to defy God.

They ate a piece of fruit they weren't supposed to eat because some talking snake said it would give them knowledge. At most what a person deserves for that is a smack in the face!

 

[Aštra’el]

They ate a piece of fruit they weren't supposed to eat because some talking snake said it would give them knowledge. At most what a person deserves for that is a smack in the face!

I think you are missing the point of the story. A similar version of the Garden of Eden myth could play out once humanity creates artificial intelligence.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Problem: The highest good is not you but the glory of God
God is good and even the problems will bring him glory when everything is said and done, either showing His mercy which near the apex of His glory or showing his justice

But can a person be more merciful than God, no... but in redemption can become more and more Christ like

John Piper speaks to the issue here
How Does It Glorify God to Predestine People to Hell? | Desiring God

 

[Spiderman]

But can a person be more merciful than God, no... e

which of the poll options do you vote most merciful?

 

[whirlingmerc]

false trichotomy

Tertium quad
It's most glorifying to God to elect some to redemption
Redeeming people is not an entitlement but a mercy

 

[Spiderman]

false trichotomy

Tertium quad
It's most glorifying to God to elect some to redemption
Redeeming people is not an entitlement but a mercy

What is more merciful, to have someone tortured forever or put them out of their misery?

 

[whirlingmerc]

That is a fifth choice. And the view of conditionalism, people have eternal existence contingent on salvation Jehovah Witnesses and seventh day adventists take this position
Some Christians like the late John Stott later in life took this position as well.

So... I would say its the wrong question . The right question is not which is more merciful, but which is better. Is it better for a Hitler to be put out of his misery or more glorifying to the justice of God if not I say the latter.

Another area where the question has the wheels coming off the bus is that it's a man centered question, mercy is one area of goodness but on balance what is best weighing mercy and justice and God's glory

Your conclusion is also problematic saying that you with your limited understanding are wiser than an infinite God that sees the end from the beginning and knows the heart. You may not understand something but clearly you don't know all things

 

[Spiderman]

That is a fifth choice. And the view of conditionalism, people have eternal existent contingent on salvation
Jehovah Witnesses and seventh day adventists take this position

So... I would say its the wrong question . The right question is not which is more merciful, but which is better. Is it better for a Hitler to be put out of his misery or more glorifying to the justice of God if not I say the latter.

Hitler was a miserable man. I think he was a tortured hurting soul. No, i don't think he or anyone deserves eternal torture

You once again refused to answer my question because you know the answer. sparing a person eternal torture is the most merciful approach.

I would do so, Therefore I'm more merciful than God.

I would also argue God is more glorified when he does this because eternal agony is cruel

 

[Spiderman]

But can a person be more merciful than God, no... but in redemption can become more and more Christ like

John Piper speaks to the issue here
How Does It Glorify God to Predestine People to Hell? | Desiring God

it would glorify God to burn me in hell...after all, I despize his cruelty. God is glorified when he burns people like me who oppose him.

If it glorifies God , that doesn't make it the loving thing. I thought I read somewhere "God is love".

 

[lovesong]

That is a good option, but religious people would never see that as good. I'm trying to come up with options that religious people will see as better than the belief in eternal misery. So, I'm asking which of those three options sounds best.

Me personally, I'd prefer God let people do as they please, but if he knows what will make them happiest, that he/she eventually and gradually lead them there.

Options that religious people would like? I'm very religious, yet that is the only option I would find even somewhat acceptable. Not all religious people feel the need to be controlled by the divine.

 

[Nietzsche]

Sorry, you act like Adam and Eve didn't do nothing. They had it all and perfection and we've would've had it all, but it didn't happen that way. The only way it would not have happened is if they obeyed God or God made them without free will. I suppose one could ask why God gave free will to the angels? They didn't have a Tree of Knowledge as temptation, but some rose to defy God.

They had everything but the ability to know better, you mean. You can raise a child in poverty, disease and squalor and it still be immensely happy. Why? Because it knows nothing but that. Being happy because someone has intentionally made it so you don't know of any alternatives isn't really happiness, it's blissful ignorance.

 

[Spiderman]

Options that religious people would like? I'm very religious, yet that is the only option I would find even somewhat acceptable. Not all religious people feel the need to be controlled by the divine.

I knew you were spiritual, i just didn't think religious.

I stand corrected

 

[shmogie]

So, if I was omnipotent (the quality of having unlimited power) I would heal people of mental and physical illnesses. I would fill with joy and euphoria every sad, lonely, depressed, and miserable person. I would heal all infirmities and mental illness. I would give pedophiles and sexual deviants a healthy sexuality so that they don't feel inclined to commit acts that harm themselves or others. I would heal all people of drug, sexual, or other addictions

I would enlighten all people to know the truth. I would speak clear messages to people that seek me so that they could write down word-for-word my instructions (So there would be no confusion). I would elect world leaders who were the most wise and compassionate people on earth, and I would guide their every decision so that they knew what was best for the people.

Would we have a better world if that was done?

I would let no one be tortured for all eternity in hell. I find that people who do evil are often suffering a lot. No one wakes up in the morning and says "I'm feeling so good today, I want to go kill a bunch of people" . Consequently, I feel compassion for such people already and dread the idea of them suffering forever. Either heal them, transform them, or put them out of their misery.

I'm reading a book by Allan Kardec "The Spirit's book". It's a great read if you haven't read it. He interacts with spirits and they answer all his questions about spirits. They claim that the Spirit existed before it was incarnated and that this body is just one temporary outfit. They tell him that every spirit will be purified and made perfect eventually, but for some it will take many thousands of years and many lifetimes.

I have to agree that this belief is far more just, compassionate, merciful, and rational than the belief that people will be tortured forever and ever because of what they did or believed in this brief life (which is one-second compared to eternity....why punish someone eternally because of what they did with one-second, especially when you consider that they were blind, confused, unenlightened, and naturally inclined to sin).

Please answer the poll if you could. Please be honest about it. I'm asking what is the most compassionate approach. You might firmly believe that eternal torture is what is in store for unbelievers, but do you truly find that to be the most compassionate approach?

No, there will be no eternal hell. You have missed the most critical issue, free will and the misuse of it. Yes, there are people who wake up in the morning wanting to kill another human.