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Can a JW please answer this one question, pretty please?

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I can pretty much back up any statement or position with scripture: Slavery? Yep; Killing? Yep; Rape? Yep; Eschewing pork? Yep; Eating pork? Yep.

What's your point?

New Testament teaching
Slavery - didn't comment on topic, urged 'masters' to treat 'servants' with dignity and respect. Whosoever leads
into slavery will be led into slavery.
Killing - not acceptable.
Rape - not acceptable
Eschewing pork - whatever enters the mouth does not defile a person.

Secular teaching
humility - considered a bad thing
gravitas - the word is hardly known anymore
forgiveness - you have to stand up for yourself
marriage fidelity - increasingly unfashionable
personal responsibility - slowly being replaced with collective, political ethics
morality - see my tag below.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Both I believe. "Hebrew" describes both the language and the people who spoke it....first ascribed to Abram (Genesis 14:13) who was a 10th generation descendent of Noah through Shem.

According to our beliefs, when the second rebellion occurred after the flood of Noah's day, Genesis describes a situation where God confused the language among Noah's descendants to break up their defiance of his order to spread abroad in the earth. He confused their language so that their plans to stay put and build their own empire would be thwarted, saying.... "Now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be impossible for them" (Genesis 11:6) Those who understood one another collected together and moved away to populate other parts of the earth, whilst Noah retained the original language given to Adam in Eden. This is where we believe the Hebrew language originated.

By the time of Jesus, "Hebrew" had come to include many Aramaic expressions and was the language spoken by Christ and his disciples.

We also believe that when God's kingdom begins its rule over the earth, that humans will all return to the original language, removing the language barrier for good.

The thing that I find fascinating about language is, that despite the problems created by language, (the language barrier) the existence of an international language (Esperanto) was formulated in 1887, yet we still do not see it universally adopted. If it was taught to children in infancy, then all peoples of the world could have been communicating freely all this time, yet it never was implemented in all nations. I can't imagine why, when it would have solved so many translation and communication problems....imagine if world leaders could actually speak a common language...? Or world travellers being able to read and speak a common language? Misunderstandings and misinterpretation would have been avoidable. :shrug:
Thankyou for that explanation.
Given that history of the Hebrew language (and people) I would not have been surprised if I learned that JWs all learned it as a second language in order to unite all JWs in speech, etc.

Some countries kick back hard against common language; the French are a typical example.

Thankyou again for that............ :)
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
My questions about the 144 000 would be:

If the 12000 are figurative then why consider 144000 literal if it is made up of a figurative number?
If the 12000 are figurative then what is the relevance of naming each tribe?
Also, why are the tribes of Dan and Ephraim replaced by Joseph and Levi?
If the scriptures wanted to point out that the 144000 were Jewish Christians, theoretically how would the writer single them out if mentioning Israel or Jew by name will not do so?
Also, would the answers to these questions by Jehovah's Witnesses be the only way one can interpret them or are there equally valid alternatives?

An objective reading of the text, textual analysis, and not assuming premises will sort of sort out the issue. Also, from my viewpoint, the understanding on this topic depends on how deep you want to go into questioning why certain terms are used in the relevant verse. For instance, one could go into why certain tribes who are apart of the 144000 were excluded and include by analyzing the histories of the original tribes and the patriarchs who founded each tribe. I think that is missing in the discussion and there must be a reason for the switch. I don't think the writer changed something as important as the tribes just for fun. Glossing over thought provoking points like that to come to a conclusion means that you have left something unexplored and places that persons accuracy of the analysis of the text in doubt.

Also notice that in the same chapter the 144 000 are mentioned, the great crowd are standing before the throne, which the elders and living creatures stand around and they would serve in Jesus temple and dwell with him which shows that the Great Crowd is in heaven, which is stated directly in Revelation 19.

Also there is a distinction between "those of every tribe and tongue and nation" and "Israel". Interesting to note, the Great Crowd are made up of "all nations, tribes, people and tongues' in 7:9. Revelation 5:9-10 says that those "Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" will be made "kings and priests to our God" and will "reign on the earth". Only the elect/anointed are Kings and Priests so this would show that the Great Crowd would be elect/anointed. The 144000's attributes generally imply that they are pure, but they are not said to reign as Kings and Priests on the earth like those out of every nation, tribes, people and tongues. In chapter 14 the 144000 are a pure group of singers. And, like the Great Crowd, they are also before the throne, which means that they will also be in heaven.

What this also means is that it seems there will be those reigning on earth, but some living in heaven. This could be solved by using Revelations 21:10 which shows new Jerusalem descending from heaven to earth. It seems to me that the faithful go to heaven first and then everybody descends down to earth, to live on the New Earth. God and the Lamb are the temple (21:22) and the Kings of the Earth after the millennium will "bring their glory and honour it."

I wouldn't see the Bible mentioning a soul seperate from the body, unless the soul is actually the breath of life that God breathes in man. I think actual spirits and the breath of life are referred to as "ruach" in hebrew so they might be made of the same stuff. Also spirit beings transform into physical beings in the bible and the nature of what makes up a spiritual being isn't mentioned as far as i know. 2 Corinthians 5 points to replacement bodies in heaven, so the heavenly bodies are not something that Christians would have already, but something that God will give them in the future. So I doubt that Christians would exist as souls according to the Bible, but their "breath of life" will be transferred to a heavenly body, which is the same as Christs as in Phillipians 3:20-21. So if Christ rose bodily, or his body was transformed like angels can, Christians would have bodies like that when they die.

There are multiple views on eschatology, all with its problems though.
 
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shmogie

Well-Known Member
@shmogie , this is wrong. We believe every living, breathing thing has spirit.
(Including embryos; inside the womb, they simply get their oxygen from their parent.)
Huh ? How did I get into this ? I simply asked a poster why he believed you folk didn´t believe in a spirit in humans. He never answered, but I am sure he was talking about an eternal spirit for all.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Huh ? How did I get into this ? I simply asked a poster why he believed you folk didn´t believe in a spirit in humans. He never answered, but I am sure he was talking about an eternal spirit for all.
My reply to you included quoting his comment so he'll see it. Sorta like "two birds with one stone."

Take care.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Wharrabout Mark 12?
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.
26 Andregarding the dead rising, have you not read about the burning bush in the book of Moses, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”
Wat do you say.
Was jesus badly mistaken?
You said / quoted it yourself..."When the dead rise". Jesus didn't say their rising was immediate. It comes "in the Last Day." John 6:44

Did Lazarus say he'd been in another realm somewhere? No.
 

RedhorseWoman

Active Member
I guess the scriptures and the parable of the prodigal son fell on deaf ears then......? Oh well. :shrug:

I guess the scriptures and the parable of the prodigal son are totally unknown to you, then? The scriptures show that the prodigal son was never shunned by his family and that, unlike the process utilized by the JWs, was warmly welcomed back by his father as soon as he arrived home. He was not relegated to the barn to sit there in isolation until his father decided he was "repentant" enough.



I guess we might see it for him...what do you reckon? Look at the state of the world...it looms closer every day.
You do understand that 1914 was just the start of the "last days" of this present system of things...? The end is in sight and the preaching will keep going until the end. (Matthew 24:14)

The year 1914 is bogus and the "end" is not in sight. The preaching (and distribution of Watchtower literature) will keep going as long as your leaders are profiting from it.



How sinister of him to keep a record of the time he spent that month in the service of his God. You do understand that we have a yearbook that is published every year that correlates all the hours spent by Jehovah's people in his service? That is all its for....for us to see what our brothers are doing all over the world...the tally is thrilling for all of us as we see the prophesy of Matthew 24:24 being fulfilled globally, and know that we had a small part in that. Are people hurt in any by that?

A report in the yearbook is all that counting time (and placements) is for? Stop lying, Deeje. Anyone who was ever associated with the JWs knows full well that the time and placement reporting is mainly used to gauge a JW's "spirituality." A JW could spend huge amounts of time preaching, but if he didn't turn in that monthly time sheet, he would be considered to be, after a certain amount of time, an "inactive" publisher and someone who was "spiritually weak" and would generally be contacted by the elders to find out why he hadn't been reporting his "time."




I am not quite sure what a "boiler plate response" is, but I was a Witness in 1975 and I can assure you that it was only pointed out that this was the year that marked 6,000 years from the creation of Adam....and wouldn't it be wonderful if this was the year we could expect the coming of the Kingdom and an end to wickedness forever? At no time were we told to sell our homes or to do anything but sit tight, and wait and see. Well we waited and we saw that it came and went. But you know what...it weeded out all those who were selfishly serving only themselves. The faithful are still here doing as Christ commanded....where are they? Where are you? Are any of you out there preaching the good news of the Kingdom as Jesus commanded? We haven't stopped.

Lying again. This is a habit with you, it seems. Yes, it was pointed out that 1975 marked 6,000 years from the creation of Adam, but that was FAR from the ONLY point being made. Bible studies were limited to six months' time because the "time was so short" and if a Bible study didn't commit to baptism within that six months, the study was to be dropped because we couldn't waste the precious few remaining MONTHS before Armageddon studying with someone who wasn't willing to commit.

It is true that JWs weren't TOLD to sell their homes, but it is also true that any JWs who DID sell their homes in order to move to "where the need was greater" were praised for doing so. It's also true that sisters were urged not to become pregnant because being pregnant or caring for a small child would make it so much more difficult for them when the "great tribulation" hit just prior to Armageddon.

The WTS also posited that Armageddon would most likely begin in the Fall of 1975 or within MONTHS of that time...note that those months have turned into decades.

It would be nice, Deeje, if you would occasionally tell the truth about things...but, not to worry...when I spot your lies, I'll gladly point them out and correct them for you.



I think we got the message because we haven't said boo about any of that for over 40 years. We just keep preaching and making disciples.....there are over 8 and a half million of us now and growing.

Not quite. The WTS has said "boo" about it, but they were much more quiet about it than before, and it's possible that you weren't paying attention and missed it. Didn't study all your publications, Deeje? In a QFR from 2010, the WTS pointed out that Jehovah waited 120 years after informing Noah about the coming Flood. That little "carrot" when considered by JWs could easily indicate that the WTS was pointing to the year 2034, which is 120 years after 1914. They were, after all, comparing this "time of the end" to the time of Noah. They haven't ballyhooed this date--yet--but discerning JWs have, I'm sure, not dismissed it as of no importance.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Some people on here, we just have to ignore, @Deeje, as you well know, my sister.

Jehovah will deal with them.

I am going to stick my neck out and make a prediction of my own.
It's going to be better than Miller's, Russel's and Rutherford's -----

drum roll.......

There will be no more JW Armageddon dates.
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Some of the theories and interpretations the Jehovahs Witnesses brought up in this thread have been interesting and brought some questions to mind. While it seems the Jehovahs Witness theology is heavily criticized, I do not mean a criticism by asking these questions but rather, I think that underlying the O.P. are some very interesting new questions brought up by interpretations and theology the Jehovah Witness Movement developed and adopted and teach.


Inside Jehovahs Witness movements’ theology

1) Do the Jehovahs Witnesses’ movement theorize that a “soul” is simply a “body” and the “breath”?

IF SO:

2) Where does the intelligence and personal traits that are inherent in a newborn infant originate in J.W. theology? Does God create them from nothing?

3) When do these intelligence and personal traits begin? Are they it created at the moment of conception or just before birth or when? Upon first "breathing"?

4) Where does the intelligence that is inherent in a newborn infant reside? Does the J.W. movement theorize that it is in the physical brain only? Is it in the “Breath”? Is the inherent intelligence, and Character and personality and preferences of a brand new infant stored outside of the body? Where is this “personality” stored in J.W. theology?

5) At the death of an individual, where does the intelligent and personal traits of a person reside? Do they become non-existent or do they exist and are stored somewhere?

6) If they are stored, then what form does this storage take? Is it a non-personal form such as a computer record suggested by another poster?

7) If the personal traits and intelligence of a dead person are stored when WHERE does the storage take place. Does God keep a memory of what this “person” and their characteristics were when they existed in his own mind or is it in a separate place, separate from God?

8) Upon resurrection, Does God take a memory of the prior person and put it into a new person in the same form it existed prior to death or does God change these characteristics and create a new and better person that is more suited for heaven? (i.e. does God create a “new” person that is like the one that died, but without many of the prior social and moral imperfections…)


I want to express appreciation in advance for the answers to these questions from members of the Jehovahs Witness movement.

While I admit that I think the more original forms of Christianity where mankind have a spirit in them seems more rational and logical to me, still I think interpretations developed in the 19th century by later Christian movements are incredibly interesting.


@Deeje or @Hockeycowboy, @tigger2, or any other Jehovahs Witness who knows Authentic J.Witness theology on these points, I would be grateful for any answers you can offer on these specific questions.

Clear
ακσινεω
 
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Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
Some of the theories and interpretations the Jehovahs Witnesses brought up in this thread have been interesting and brought some questions to mind. While it seems the Jehovahs Witness theology is heavily criticized, I do not mean a criticism by asking these questions but rather, I think that underlying the O.P. are some very interesting new questions brought up by interpretations and theology the Jehovah Witness Movement developed and adopted and teach.


Inside Jehovahs Witness movements’ theology

1) Do the Jehovahs Witnesses’ movement theorize that a “soul” is simply a “body” and the “breath”?

IF SO:

2) Where does the intelligence and personal traits that are inherent in a newborn infant originate in J.W. theology? Does God create them from nothing?

3) When do these intelligence and personal traits begin? Are they it created at the moment of conception or just before birth or when? Upon first "breathing"?

4) Where does the intelligence that is inherent in a newborn infant reside? Does the J.W. movement theorize that it is in the physical brain only? Is it in the “Breath”? Is the inherent intelligence, and Character and personality and preferences of a brand new infant stored outside of the body? Where is this “personality” stored in J.W. theology?

5) At the death of an individual, where does the intelligent and personal traits of a person reside? Do they become non-existent or do they exist and are stored somewhere?

6) If they are stored, then what form does this storage take? Is it a non-personal form such as a computer record suggested by another poster?

7) If the personal traits and intelligence of a dead person are stored when WHERE does the storage take place. Does God keep a memory of what this “person” and their characteristics were when they existed in his own mind or is it in a separate place, separate from God?

8) Upon resurrection, Does God take a memory of the prior person and put it into a new person in the same form it existed prior to death or does God change these characteristics and create a new and better person that is more suited for heaven? (i.e. does God create a “new” person that is like the one that died, but without many of the prior social and moral imperfections…)


I want to express appreciation in advance for the answers to these questions from members of the Jehovahs Witness movement.

While I admit that I think the more original forms of Christianity where mankind have a spirit in them seems more rational and logical to me, still I think interpretations developed in the 19th century by later Christian movements are incredibly interesting.


@Deeje or @Hockeycowboy or any other Jehovahs Witness who knows Authentic J.Witness theology on these points, Thanks again for any answers you can offer on these specific questions.

Clear
ακσινεω

To start off as a basis of understanding their view, it is best to go to the JW.org website on this topic:

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-a-soul/

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/when-you-die/

For the thorough, detailed understanding, read:

Soul — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Death — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Resurrection — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I am going to stick my neck out and make a prediction of my own.
It's going to be better than Miller's, Russel's and Rutherford's -----

drum roll.......

There will be no more JW Armageddon dates.
You're right.
And 1975 was not one...the brothers were told to take a "wait and see" approach.

The only Armageddon date ever proposed, was 1914. Prove otherwise. (I could be wrong.)

I'm not talking about 'Beth Sarim" and such; specifically Armageddon.
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member

While I appreciate the links Israel Khan, the information they provide are too basic and do not answer the questions I am asking in any detail.

Clear
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
While I appreciate the links Israel Khan, the information they provide are too basic and do not answer the questions I am asking in any detail.

Clear

The first too were supposed to be basic, but I surely thought that the last three would be detailed because those are the most detailed explanations I have come across in their literature. But also I do understand that there is a lot of clutter in those explanations as well. It would be interesting to see what JW's say about it in detail.

I could go into theoretical detail from my personal viewpoint but since I am not a JW anymore, I think it best for them to answer.
 

RedhorseWoman

Active Member
You're right.
And 1975 was not one...the brothers were told to take a "wait and see" approach.

The only Armageddon date ever proposed, was 1914. Prove otherwise. (I could be wrong.)

I'm not talking about 'Beth Sarim" and such; specifically Armageddon.

You are wrong:

At the 1967 District Convention, Wisconsin Sheboygan District Overseer Brother Charles Sinutko presented the talk "Serving with Everlasting Life in View", making the following statement:

"Stay Alive to Seventy Five"

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"Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975. Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then. As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five""

In November 1968, District Overseer Duggan announced at the Pampa Texas Assembly that "not really a full 83 months remains, so lets be faithful and confident and … we will be alive beyond the war of Armageddon…," which therefore slated Armageddon for October 1975.

"83 Months remain"

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Similar comments flowed through the Watchtower during the late nineteen sixties, showing that the concept Armageddon would arrive in 1975 was encouraged, with terms such as "there is only 6 years left" used as a count down to the end.

"Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4 "The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfilment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272

Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? "Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years." Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.499 "The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.13
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The point is that Learned Jews could "prove" this Jesus wasn't the Messiah, regardless of His fame and his healings.

I am remembering that Jesus didn't have a good thing to say about the "learned Jews" of his day....you know, the ones who orchestrated his murder...? What notice should I take of them? Do they to this day accept Jesus as Messiah? Messianic Jews do but don't ever call them "Christians".

This Jesus came from Nazareth and not Bethlehem where scripture says the
Messiah must come. It is not recorded of Jesus saying, "Oh wait a minute! I was actually born in
Bethlehem and I am actually of the tribe of David." No, the Jews had to accept Jesus for His
message before anything else was revealed.

Well, then I guess all that scripture in Matthew that describes Mary and Joseph's journey to Bethlehem with her heavy with child are just fictitious then?

And... Nazareth was a bad town from a bad province. Another reason God gave the Jews to reject
Jesus.

Yep...real good excuse that one. :D The Messiah would never come from a bad town in a bad province....how many bad towns did Jesus and his disciples visit looking for the "lost sheep"?

The bible caters for us all - if you want to believe you will be given something to believe in.
If you disbelieve then God will give you something to fault.

The Bible divides people just as Paul said it should....
"For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account." (Hebrews 4:12-13)

You see the purpose of God's word....a dividing is necessary because a separation must occur between the "wheat and the weeds"...the "sheep from the goats".....John 6:65 applies.


 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Thank you for the opportunity my friend. Glad that you want this info direct from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Never accept anything from an "ex" as gospel. If anyone has ever been on the receiving end of an ex's version of events, they will know how much distortion can be applied to give a false impression.

Some of the theories and interpretations the Jehovahs Witnesses brought up in this thread have been interesting and brought some questions to mind. While it seems the Jehovahs Witness theology is heavily criticized, I do not mean a criticism by asking these questions but rather, I think that underlying the O.P. are some very interesting new questions brought up by interpretations and theology the Jehovah Witness Movement developed and adopted and teach.

Here goes....

Inside Jehovahs Witness movements’ theology

1) Do the Jehovahs Witnesses’ movement theorize that a “soul” is simply a “body” and the “breath”?

That is what we glean from the Genesis account. God formed Adam's body from the elements of the earth and "breathed" into his nostrils "the breath of life" which is "spirit" according to the original language words. By starting him breathing, God made him a soul (a breather) which is a term also applied to animals in the Genesis account.

IF SO:

2) Where does the intelligence and personal traits that are inherent in a newborn infant originate in J.W. theology? Does God create them from nothing?

If we are the product of the gene pool of our parents, this is where the bulk of our level of intelligence and personal traits come from. God does not create humans directly, but as with the animal kingdom, he allowed them to populate the earth without his intervention. If God were responsible for the individual traits in humans, then he would be to blame for all the wicked people and their activities down through time.

3) When do these intelligence and personal traits begin? Are they it created at the moment of conception or just before birth or when? Upon first "breathing"?

All the information that determines one's inherited features and personality is already in their DNA....so it begins at conception. The final molding of course is also shaped by the environment in which a person is raised and what sort of role models their parents were.

4) Where does the intelligence that is inherent in a newborn infant reside? Does the J.W. movement theorize that it is in the physical brain only? Is it in the “Breath”? Is the inherent intelligence, and Character and personality and preferences of a brand new infant stored outside of the body? Where is this “personality” stored in J.W. theology?

We believe that newborns are virtually a blank canvas, programmed by heredity and environment. All that this little human will become is gradually added to the infinite memory banks in the brain, able to store vast amounts of information over a lifetime. But God also has infinite memory and when we have breathed our last breath, all that was us is stored in his memory banks. He alone can restore life and breath to a lifeless body. This is called resurrection.

The intricate and complex functions of the human brain are not well understood at all.....but we believe that all mental function is governed by the brain. It determines thoughts, which in turn precipitates actions. (James 1:13-15) The first organ in the body to die is our brain.
The Bible also speaks of the figurative heart....the deep part of human thinking that determines whether to act on our thoughts....or not. (Luke 6:45)

5) At the death of an individual, where does the intelligent and personal traits of a person reside? Do they become non-existent or do they exist and are stored somewhere?

As above. All that we ever were as individuals is retained in God's memory and will be restored when he empowers Jesus to resurrect the dead. (John 5:28-29) Jesus calls them from their graves, restored to life, no matter how long they have been "asleep". We have the resurrection of Lazarus as a prime example. (John 11:11-14) They will have no memory of the passing of time because those who sleep are not conscious. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 146:4)

6) If they are stored, then what form does this storage take? Is it a non-personal form such as a computer record suggested by another poster?

Since no one knows the capacity of our God in this regard, or how he stores this information, we have to take him at his word....that he promises to raise the dead back to life on earth. The Jews originally had no concept of an afterlife because their scripture never mentioned it. The Genesis account merely says that Adam went back to where he came from. He didn't exist before his creation and he returned to that same state. No Jew was ever told by God that he would go to heaven in OT scripture.

This was something Jesus instituted with the new covenant....but it was something his disciples could not grasp until their anointing at Pentecost.
Not until the Revelation do we gain insight into two distinct groups of Christians....one finite group who are chosen by God to rule with Christ in his Kingdom and act as priests (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 14:1-5) and a great multitude who will be their subjects on earth. (Revelation 7: 9-10; Revelation 7:13-14; Revelation 21:2-4)

7) If the personal traits and intelligence of a dead person are stored when WHERE does the storage take place. Does God keep a memory of what this “person” and their characteristics were when they existed in his own mind or is it in a separate place, separate from God?

Since a resurrection literally means "standing up again" it seems that whatever that person was and whatever memories they had of their former life will be restored. That has to mean they will know themselves and so will their loved ones.

8) Upon resurrection, Does God take a memory of the prior person and put it into a new person in the same form it existed prior to death or does God change these characteristics and create a new and better person that is more suited for heaven? (i.e. does God create a “new” person that is like the one that died, but without many of the prior social and moral imperfections…)

Since we do not believe that the majority of Christians will go to heaven, their spiritual resurrection is very different.
Raised to be spirit beings capable of dwelling in the presence of God, they are transformed and given a completely new body...a new birth, which is what being "born again" means to us. They are born again as spirit beings....born from water (baptism) and spirit (anointed with God's spirit).

Those who experience the earthly resurrection will be raised whole and healthy, unaffected by whatever caused their death. Remember that Jesus cured the sick when he was on earth...all kinds of maladies were mentioned, but not once do we hear that anyone went back to their youth. So the resurrection will be similar I imagine. The ones who were young stayed young and the older ones stayed the age they were when sickness befell them. In the new world there will be no death, so the old will go back to the days of their youth and the young will never go beyond maturity.

I want to express appreciation in advance for the answers to these questions from members of the Jehovahs Witness movement.

While I admit that I think the more original forms of Christianity where mankind have a spirit in them seems more rational and logical to me, still I think interpretations developed in the 19th century by later Christian movements are incredibly interesting.

Thank you Clear. It is fascinating to me where the idea of an immortal soul originated.....it wasn't from the Bible, and it pervades all religions outside of Christianity as well. The Jews were the exception.....they never believed in a spiritual part of man that departed from the body, because God never taught them about such a thing. Since Jesus was Jewish, I don't believe that Jesus ever mentioned it either. There are certain things in the NT that are misinterpreted but on investigation using other scripture, we get clarification. The Bible explains itself.

@Deeje or @Hockeycowboy, @tigger2, or any other Jehovahs Witness who knows Authentic J.Witness theology on these points, I would be grateful for any answers you can offer on these specific questions.

Clear
ακσινεω

My pleasure....:) I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Hi DeeJe!
I see you ignored my post, so let me give it to you again.
perhaps you missed it.
Previous by SA said:
And then again, Jesus said this.
Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.[Quote\]
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
And... Nazareth was a bad town from a bad province. Another reason God gave the Jews to reject Jesus.
Yep...real good excuse that one. :D The Messiah would never come from a bad town in a bad province....
how many bad towns did Jesus and his disciples visit looking for the "lost sheep"?

Actually God put Jesus in the worse province and in one of the worst towns - "Can anything good come
out of Nazareth?" asked Phillip.
Phillip was a Galilean, the place looked down upon by most other Jews. Galilee was more Gentile than
Jew. The Jews of Galilee were considered coarse, uncultured and corrupt.
 
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