Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

[Thief]

There is no amount of evidence that will change their minds. I don't believe they used reason and education to gain their faith, so it surely wont change it.

They don't accept proof from man. They place everything in a higher power. Even though the book was written by man.

No evidence for you.....
and you're waiting for some man to prove God to you?

I think it's suppose to be the other way around.

 

[outhouse]

No evidence for you.....
and you're waiting for some man to prove God to you?

I think it's suppose to be the other way around.

No man can prove a deity exist in my opinion.


And if you think a deity will prove this to you, I think people can imagine many things and label these thoughts freely, and attribute what ever they want.

To me, that's all your describing.


This thread is about a literal genesis, I can see how you need to tie the two with faith.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

No evidence for you.....
and you're waiting for some man to prove God to you?

I think it's suppose to be the other way around.

Aren't you supposed to assume something doesn't exist until proven otherwise? Can you prove that there isn't an invisible magic space-pixie living in a teapot on the dark side of the moon?

 

[Thief]

Aren't you supposed to assume something doesn't exist until proven otherwise? Can you prove that there isn't an invisible magic space-pixie living in a teapot on the dark side of the moon?

Cause and effect....very scientific notion and method.

The universe (one word) is the effect....God is the Cause.

 

[CG Didymus]

Aren't you supposed to assume something doesn't exist until proven otherwise? Can you prove that there isn't an invisible magic space-pixie living in a teapot on the dark side of the moon?

I know she's real because she lives in my heart and guides me through the day. Everything I've made up about her, oops, I mean everything prophesied and said about her has come to pass. Like no one will be able to see her. Has anyone been able to see her? No. So that proves that she is real.

 

[CG Didymus]

...God is the Cause.

Which God? Even if you say the God of the Bible, that's still not specific enough. Which definition of the God of the Bible are you talking about? Are you including the Christian NT as part of the Bible? Because that changes who God is. Also, if a literal interpretation can't hold up to scrutiny, then that changes who God is, because that's where he is said to be that "cause." So did it go down as described in Genesis, or is it just allegory?

 

[outhouse]

Cause and effect....very scientific notion and method.

The universe (one word) is the effect....God is the Cause.

Source for that please!

Just to show it is not imagination, can you show us that?

 

[greentwiga]

There is no debate about this.

Israelites did not exist until after 1200 BC

They were influenced by many Mesopotamian mythologies. This is not up for debate. They also state their Noah came from this are describing events in the past, they knew nothing about.

This is a meaningless argument. Even if the Bible is right about the Israelites, they came into existence in 1650 BC. This is over a thousand years after the Noah story. Thus, whether they came into being in 1200 or 1650 BC, it is well after the story. Thus, the argument is Did the author read the Akkadian story and change it to the Biblical one? Did the Akkadians read the original, that was later copied into the Bible, and change it to fit the Akkadian world view? or did both arise independently from the events? Since all of our accounts are copies written hundreds of years after the flood, we can't prove any of the three. The Akkadian, the Babylonian and the Sumerian differ from each other in important ways. Which one was the real one?

 

[gnostic]

This is a meaningless argument. Even if the Bible is right about the Israelites, they came into existence in 1650 BC. This is over a thousand years after the Noah story.

If we assume that Israel began when Moses died and Joshua led the invasion against Canaan, then the between Noah disembarking the ark and the Israelites entering Canaan only add up to 846 years, not over a 1000 years....well, according to my calculation using the Masoretic Text.

 

[Thief]

Which God? Even if you say the God of the Bible, that's still not specific enough. Which definition of the God of the Bible are you talking about? Are you including the Christian NT as part of the Bible? Because that changes who God is. Also, if a literal interpretation can't hold up to scrutiny, then that changes who God is, because that's where he is said to be that "cause." So did it go down as described in Genesis, or is it just allegory?

The Creator.....God Almighty.

You can call Him anything else if you care to.

 

[Thief]

Source for that please!

Just to show it is not imagination, can you show us that?

Your imagination is the problem solving part of your brain.

Got one?

If not...why complain to me?

I say Cause and effect is good stuff.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The Creator.....God Almighty.

You can call Him anything else if you care to.

So shiva, Vishnu, brahma works for you too?

How about the Tao?

Or azhura Mazda?

chaos?

 

[outhouse]

Even if the Bible is right about the Israelites, they came into existence in 1650 BC. This is over a thousand years after the Noah story.

I don't see that.

WE have a attested flood on the Euphrates from 2900 BC, exactly where the first mythology sates there was a flood, and when according to Ziusudras possible existence on the kings list.

Israelites did not exist before 1200 BC, and Noahs version was not finished until 500 BC if your lucky, it could have been a little later, but not before.

So we have a 2400 year difference and multiple cultures.


What can you tell me about 2400 years ago that you know in detail, it was the same for them. Think about what your saying. The Israelites are at the half way point between US now! and the actual flood.

. Thus, the argument is Did the author read the Akkadian story and change it to the Biblical one?

There is no evidence that version was in circulation when Israelites existed.

The Akkadian, the Babylonian and the Sumerian differ from each other in important ways. Which one was the real one?

WE have done our homework.


If you know all 3 versions the answer is obvious.

The Sumerian version is the oldest, and closest to the original real flood. The flood it mentions was real, and the man in question is also on the known kings list.


AND if you followed these you would see the oldest version is a river flood and the barge lands next to a hill and a sacrifice was made. As time marches on it goes to a seal deluge, and then to the very late Israelite version as a global flood .


There is no mystery here, just those who have and have not done their homework, and those that want to pervert history and knowledge to meet their biased and apologetic needs. Only by doing the work can you separate who is who.

If you want to propose a hypothesis, you need to be able to explain all 4 versions and the attested flood of 2900 BC with credibility.

 

[Thief]

So shiva, Vishnu, brahma works for you too?

How about the Tao?

Or azhura Mazda?

chaos?

Chaos for sure.....
Without Someone in charge the next life will be exactly that.

You may call the Creator any Name you care to.
Doesn't matter to me....It might to Him.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Chaos for sure.....
Without Someone in charge the next life will be exactly that.

You may call the Creator any Name you care to.
Doesn't matter to me....It might to Him.

Ah so you are a Christian.

And Chaos is among the primordial deities of Greek Mythology. Someone in charge? The next life? Yeah you're definitely a Christian...catholic I would say or at least catholic light.

 

[Muffled]

The book states it covered the highest mountains and killed all life.


Love how you you personally interpret what you want when you want

I love how you think that when it isn't true.

I believe that doesn't prove that it is world wide. How high are the mountains in mesopotamia? My understanding is that it is pretty much low land. A flood of that magnitude would kill all life within its environs.

 

[Muffled]

What I stated stands, and it stands for all of humanity.

It is why you cannot refute it with credibility, and it is taught worldwide as higher education in every university around the WHOLE world.

I believe I can't refute a supposed prroof that you haven't made. Anyone can say anything and I believe you talk well but you prove nothing.

I believe it is fine to teach it as a theory but if educators are teaching it as fact they are badly mistaken.

 

[Muffled]

Then why have we found these...

But not this...

I believe wood rots but skulls tend to be preserved in the desert. I can't find the ancestor of my forefather who first came to this country. It is quite possible the records were burned or there never were any but the reality is that I had an ancestor whether there is proof or not because that is usually how things work. On the other hand someone did some research and found people with the same last name in England (Ignoring the fact that some people in this country have the same last name and can trace their lineage to Ireland) and she supposed that our ancestor came from there but she couldn't prove it. Are you saying I should just accept her theory as fact?

 

[Thief]

Ah so you are a Christian.

And Chaos is among the primordial deities of Greek Mythology. Someone in charge? The next life? Yeah you're definitely a Christian...catholic I would say or at least catholic light.

Almost became a priest.....really.....
but there were at least two other candidates holier than me!

Chaos is a science nowadays, btw.

And it is also the situation as the freshly departed stand from the dust.
Unless of course.....there's Someone in charge.

And likely to be so....
Someone is bound to be.....Almighty.

I happen to think the Same would also be the Creator.

but that doesn't make me catholic....too much dogma for me.
Probably a good thing they picked someone else.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Almost became a priest.....really.....
but there were at least two other candidates holier than me!

Chaos is a science nowadays, btw.

And it is also the situation as the freshly departed stand from the dust.
Unless of course.....there's Someone in charge.

And likely to be so....
Someone is bound to be.....Almighty.

I happen to think the Same would also be the Creator.

but that doesn't make me catholic....too much dogma for me.
Probably a good thing they picked someone else.

You are rather dogmatic though, or at least attached to a religion, the study of chaos is in relation to overal physics is a science, not necessarily chaos (which just means disorder). Of course you expect something greater, humans are creatures that desire a leader. We aren't loners like other animals. The idea of there not being something greater is frightening.