Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

[metis]

Nothing about genesis should be taken in the strictest literal fashion. I suspect there are some elements of actual historical events but much of genesis is from the Sumerian culture before it. Biology tells us that the events don't hold up. Eve would have been Adams clone/twin in a way with modified DNA making her a female. Any subsequent children they produced as well as every successive generations would be in serious biological degrade. Then we have to ask the obvious question...If Adam was "created" first then was he created with nipples and if so "WHY?"...They serve/served no purpose and why is it that every human male born continues to possess them if they served no "creative" function..?

About time you get to Noah's flood, which is actually a Sumerian story, you quickly realize that physics are against such a story but physics isn't the only area of science that disproves the story.... Biology, amongst others areas of science, come back into full view because this particular event supposedly wipes out the human race except for a select few that, once again, are closely biologically related. For them to reproduce at a rate needed to sustain and further the "human race" on the planet would not work because of...you guessed it...biological degradation. The other fatal flaw in such stories is the mental gymnastics in trying to explain the biological diversity among humans. The bible fails at this.

Well said. BTW, ever read "The Power of Myth"?

 

[AlphaAlex115]

Several more chapters after that.

You have better reference concerning Genesis?
Or you simply don't like the bible?

The bible is full of fallacies and wasn't even written by jesus or god.....

 

[John Martin]

So many things don't add up in Genesis. Like the Sun and stars, not only were they created after the Earth, but created after plants? But then, I was wondering; Adam gets kicked out of Eden and has to till the soil? This is based on Gen 4:23 and 4:2 where Adam is sent out to "cultivate" the ground and his son Cain was a "tiller" of the ground. What did they till it with? Did God make them a plow and a hoe or something? And then Abel, why was he keeping flocks? Weren't they vegetarians? Was it for wool? Did God make Eve a loom and Abel some shears?

I see Genesis as religious poetry, but some Christians, and I guess some Jews, see it as literal. Ken Ham on his TV show Answers in Genesis, insists that it must be taken literal, that it is foundational, without it the whole of the Bible falls. What do you think.

Creation stories are not science. As you say they are religious poetry, a parable, a story to tell us: who we human beings are and the purpose of our life in this world.
The Genesis story tells us that human beings are manifested in the image and likeness of God. The eternal spirit of God dwells in the heart of human beings( God breathed his breath into the nostrils of human beings. Man and woman are two aspects of one reality. The vocation of human beings is to be fruitful and multiply,that is to manifest divine attributes of love and compassion in human relationships. Individuality-jealousy are the source of violence in the world. To live according to the image of God is to live in harmony with God, to walk with God in the coll of the evening. This way of living is called 'Unfolding'.Human beings have the possibility to forget who they are and their purpose in life. If they forget their real vocation then they take up the path of becoming, which beings them out of the Garden and imposes the life of burden, effort, struggle, good and evil, living by the sweat of their brow. Human beings also have the possibility to remember their true nature and return back to the Garden of Eden.

 

[CG Didymus]

The vocation of human beings is to be fruitful and multiply,that is to manifest divine attributes of love and compassion in human relationships. Individuality-jealousy are the source of violence in the world. To live according to the image of God is to live in harmony with God, to walk with God in the coll of the evening. This way of living is called 'Unfolding'.Human beings have the possibility to forget who they are and their purpose in life. If they forget their real vocation then they take up the path of becoming, which beings them out of the Garden and imposes the life of burden, effort, struggle, good and evil, living by the sweat of their brow. Human beings also have the possibility to remember their true nature and return back to the Garden of Eden.

Sounds good. But, even if we got to the point where we treated each other well, there's still natural disasters and disease. One of the Christian ways to interpret it says we disobeyed in Genesis and therefore deserve it. And now, we can't do anything about it. The story has to be played out like Revelation says. So, there's really nothing we can do.

It would be nice if we had the capability to change and become good and do good. But, what would happen? What would God do if we actually did live according to his word? Would he change nature and stop "natural" disasters and disease? Would he bring back paradise on Earth again? Would he give us a second chance? Actually, if the story in Genesis turns out to be true, I would have expected God to have been more understanding and forgiving, and given Adam and Eve a second chance.

 

[John Martin]

Sounds good. But, even if we got to the point where we treated each other well, there's still natural disasters and disease. One of the Christian ways to interpret it says we disobeyed in Genesis and therefore deserve it. And now, we can't do anything about it. The story has to be played out like Revelation says. So, there's really nothing we can do.

It would be nice if we had the capability to change and become good and do good. But, what would happen? What would God do if we actually did live according to his word? Would he change nature and stop "natural" disasters and disease? Would he bring back paradise on Earth again? Would he give us a second chance? Actually, if the story in Genesis turns out to be true, I would have expected God to have been more understanding and forgiving, and given Adam and Eve a second chance.

As per my understanding Genesis story is nothing to do with the disobedience of God. It is about the evolution of our consciousness. Natural disasters are not punishment from God. God is unconditional love and ever forgiving. I am not sure if we have paradise on earth. Our life on this earth is meant to find out the deepest meaning of our life. If we have paradise on earth then we forget God. Natural disasters may still come but what we learn from them is more important. When Tsunami stuck in India few years ago, people forgot all the boundaries helped each other and love and compassion flowed like rivers. In the ordinary life, we live in our boundaries and create conflicts. Natural disasters break these boundaries. If we are able to break our artificial boundaries consciously then the natural disasters might not come. Are we ready to do that? If there are no boundaries in the name of nationalities, religions. linguistic groups or ethnic group; if we are able to create one God, one creation and one humanity then we may have paradise on the earth.

 

[outhouse]

It is about the evolution of our consciousness.

Because Israelites knew so much about human evolution over millions of years???

 

[Thief]

The bible is full of fallacies and wasn't even written by jesus or god.....

So...no man can ever write anything about God?

 

[Thief]

Nothing about genesis should be taken in the strictest literal fashion. I suspect there are some elements of actual historical events but much of genesis is from the Sumerian culture before it. Biology tells us that the events don't hold up. Eve would have been Adams clone/twin in a way with modified DNA making her a female. Any subsequent children they produced as well as every successive generations would be in serious biological degrade. Then we have to ask the obvious question...If Adam was "created" first then was he created with nipples and if so "WHY?"...They serve/served no purpose and why is it that every human male born continues to possess them if they served no "creative" function..?

I believe Adam was a chosen son of God.
Man was already plentiful in numbers......he was simply too much an animal.

I've been posting for years that Eve would be Adam's twin sister.
Eve would have no navel.

Glad to see someone else has noticed!

As for genetics.....
Plenty of gene pool once the sons were out of the garden.
Too bad Abel didn't make it.

 

[John Martin]

Because Israelites knew so much about human evolution over millions of years???

I am not speaking of material evolution. It is spiritual evolution for which we need not go back millions of years but only we need to look into our own hearts. The person who wrote the genesis story was filled with the grace of God and was raised to the higher level of consciousness so that he or she could understand human nature and spiritual growth and the purpose of our human existence.

 

[outhouse]

I am not speaking of material evolution. It is spiritual evolution for which we need to go back millions of years but we need to look into our own hearts.

Does not exist at this point in time.


Spirit, soul ect ect are all mythological. Born in mythology, and it has not magically leaped out of it.


And what would Israelites know about all this?

 

[John Martin]

Does not exist at this point in time.


Spirit, soul ect ect are all mythological. Born in mythology, and it has not magically leaped out of it.


And what would Israelites know about all this?

I suppose they certainly might have asked the questions like: who am I? From where do I come? From where does the creation come? What is the purpose of life? From where does evil come? What is the relationship between man and woman? What is the relationship between human beings and creation?

 

[outhouse]

I suppose they certainly might have asked the questions like: who am I? From where do I come? From where does the creation come? What is the purpose of life? From where does evil come? What is the relationship between man and woman? What is the relationship between human beings and creation?

They did ask these questions.

And it was answered by the mythology of the era and geographic locations they lived in.

They knew nothing of the natural world they lived in, and used the sane thing ewvery other culture relied on for an explanation, MYTHOLOGY.

 

[Thief]

They did ask these questions.

And it was answered by the mythology of the era and geographic locations they lived in.

They knew nothing of the natural world they lived in, and used the sane thing ewvery other culture relied on for an explanation, MYTHOLOGY.

It is believed Moses did ask such things.....and God answered.

 

[Katzpur]

I see Genesis as religious poetry, but some Christians, and I guess some Jews, see it as literal. Ken Ham on his TV show Answers in Genesis, insists that it must be taken literal, that it is foundational, without it the whole of the Bible falls. What do you think.

I'm not sure I would describe it as "religious poetry," but I definitely do not take it literally.

 

[Thief]

I'm not sure I would describe it as "religious poetry," but I definitely do not take it literally.

I would describe it as an attempt to set in words, something the writers could only set in place, AS words.

In no manner Could God say to Moses....anesthesia, surgery, cloning, genetic manipulation....

But to say that Adam was laid to sleep and a rib taken...as he slept....!

Who could believe it possible?
It would a strange tale to tell sitting about a campfire.
Who could believe it possible to take a rib from a man and not kill him?
Take that rib from the man as he sleeps?!!!!!!!....and then he recovers!!!!!

We of this century know such is possible.

How did they know of such things?!

 

[bird]

The only way to understand Genesis is to treat it as a parable, as it was intended. All of the Bible is written as a parable (Psalm 78:2, Mark 4:2. Mark 4:11). The light is Christ, the tree of life in the midst is Christ, the garden which God planted is his true believers, the rivers are the word of God, the city of Babel is a picture of congregations of the chruch age, Joseph is a picture of Chirst, the sun is a picture of Christ, the moon is a picture of the law, Adam is a picture of Christ, Eve is a picture of the true believers (Christ's bride), the ark is a picture of the covenant, those in Noah's ark (including animals) are a picture of saved persons at the end of the church age and beyond, the people of the east are a picture of the people of Christ, Isaac is a picture of saved persons after the tribulation period, and so forth

 

[outhouse]

The only way to understand Genesis is to treat it as a parable, as it was intended. All of the Bible is written as a parable

Why limit one of the most epic collections of books ever written, as only using parables, when it factually uses so many other types and styles of writing.

It would ruin it to read it that way.


Rhetoric, poems, songs, metaphor, allegory, mythology, history, and parables.

 

[bird]

It does not ruin the Bible to understand how it's author intended it to be treated; that is, if we are interested in getting at what it actually says. Of course there are many ways people have tried to interpret the Bible, but God tells believers to rightly divide the word of truth. We should not feel ruined by such an endeavor. However, parables may contain many of the writing styles you mentioned. Jesus tells the believers in Mark 4:2 that they are given to understand the mysteries, but he continues in Mark 4:11 that those who are unbelievers encounter the Bible as a parable that they do not understand.

 

[Thief]

The only way to understand Genesis is to treat it as a parable, as it was intended. All of the Bible is written as a parable (Psalm 78:2, Mark 4:2. Mark 4:11). The light is Christ, the tree of life in the midst is Christ, the garden which God planted is his true believers, the rivers are the word of God, the city of Babel is a picture of congregations of the chruch age, Joseph is a picture of Chirst, the sun is a picture of Christ, the moon is a picture of the law, Adam is a picture of Christ, Eve is a picture of the true believers (Christ's bride), the ark is a picture of the covenant, those in Noah's ark (including animals) are a picture of saved persons at the end of the church age and beyond, the people of the east are a picture of the people of Christ, Isaac is a picture of saved persons after the tribulation period, and so forth

I like parables....but I can't take it as far as you have here.

A short story to sharpen the mind and heart is practical.
But to place double meaning as you have done is too much.

 

[outhouse]

It does not ruin the Bible to understand how it's author intended it to be treated; that is, if we are interested in getting at what it actually says. Of course there are many ways people have tried to interpret the Bible, but God tells believers to rightly divide the word of truth. We should not feel ruined by such an endeavor. However, parables may contain many of the writing styles you mentioned. Jesus tells the believers in Mark 4:2 that they are given to understand the mysteries, but he continues in Mark 4:11 that those who are unbelievers encounter the Bible as a parable that they do not understand.

A great way to understand the bible is to remove all bias, and learn cultural anthropology of the peoples who wrote it.

Only then can it be more fully understood. Without historical knowledge, most are in the dark.


Its why your supposed to go to a church and learn it from someone who has studied it. Of course that supplies a biased version of apologetics.