Can a person not believe in the God of Abraham and be a Christian?

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus statement is under grace He fulfilled the Law nailing it to the tree in His sacrifice.

Jesus taught to obey the law, down to the smallest brushstroke, down to the smallest law. (Matthew 5). It's pretty obvious that "fulfilling the law" doesn't mean that it is no longer to be followed (at least for Jews).

 

[Ebionite]

Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Matt. 28:19-20

I recommend that to everyone also today.

Those verses a probably a late addition, there's no record of that teaching being applied by the early Christians, and Eusebius didn't record that baptismal formula in his writings before the Council of Nicea.

 

[1213]

Those verses a probably a late addition, there's no record of that teaching being applied by the early Christians...

I think Bible is a record of that, but I understand not all believe what is said in the Bible.

 

[Ebionite]

I think Bible is a record of that, but I understand not all believe what is said in the Bible.

AFAIK there are no accounts of the Trinitarian baptismal formula ever being used in the early texts.

Temple of Sol Invictus, Campus Martius:

 

[I Am Hugh]

Can a person not believe in the God of Abraham and be a Christian?

Depends on how you define Christian, I suppose. Lots of people identify as Christian but aren't in line with Christianity, and much of Christianity isn't in line with Christ. Just because someone claims to identify as something doesn't mean they are that thing. The problem is, who decides what is in line with Christ? If the answer is the one claiming to be Christian then identifying as a Christian doesn't mean much.

I don't believe in a Supreme Being, I am a Pantheist

Christ wasn't a pantheist, he believed in a supreme being, so how, or more importantly in your case, why have anything to do with Christ?

My "God" is metaphysical rather than personal

I don't believe in this guy:

View attachment 96939

Who is that guy? God or Jesus or both? How is a personal choice of metaphysical - not personal?

However: I believe that Jesus Christ is somehow real (but won't go into the details of that here, not right now)

It doesn't really matter whether he was real or not. I suspect you just like the concept of Jesus in some, probably apostate custom. You make Jesus whatever you want to make him. But why?

I believe that he is at work in our world right now, and I find the stories about him in the Christian scriptures to be inspiring and wise

I could say the same for Buddha, Lao Tzu, Confucius, but I'm not Buddhist, Taoist or a Confucianist.

So I don't know whether or not I can call myself a Christian

I try to follow, as best I can, the discipline of Jesus Christ. I believe in him, but I wouldn't call myself a Christian because Christianity has long ago become apostate and because I haven't been baptized. You have to be baptized to be a Christian.

 

[Eddi]

Christ wasn't a pantheist, he believed in a supreme being, so how, or more importantly in your case, why have anything to do with Christ?

Of course he wasn't, he was an observant Jew

He wasn't a Christian either

It doesn't really matter whether he was real or not.

Exactly

Who is that guy? God or Jesus or both? How is a personal choice of metaphysical - not personal?

I believe God is a metaphysical entity and not a being who has this and that characteristic - but no less real

 

[I Am Hugh]

Of course he wasn't, he was an observant Jew

He wasn't a Christian either

Exactly

I believe God is a metaphysical entity and not a being who has this and that characteristic - but no less real

Okay, but I'll ask it again; how, or more importantly in your case, why have anything to do with Christ?

 

[Eddi]

Okay, but I'll ask it again; how, or more importantly in your case, why have anything to do with Christ?

Because Christ is the means through which God makes himself known to humankind

God exists in the form of Jesus Christ

That's what Jesus Christ is: God

 

[I Am Hugh]

Because Christ is the means through which God makes himself known to humankind

Which God? The impersonal metaphysical God you claim?

God exists in the form of Jesus Christ

That doesn't mean anything. What does that mean? It's just an empty slogan, even if it's true.

That's what Jesus Christ is: God

So? God is the means through which God makes himself known to humankind? Nonsense.

 

[Eddi]

Which God? The impersonal metaphysical God you claim?

The God that I believe in, obviously

That doesn't mean anything. What does that mean? It's just an empty slogan, even if it's true.

It means that the identity of Jesus Christ - the name, the image, the personality and teachings - are all those of God

Any property of God is a property of Jesus and any property of Jesus is a property of God

It means that Jesus is not separate from "God" - he is how God emanates

So? God is the means through which God makes himself known to humankind? Nonsense.

Yes - and Jesus is God

I'm done with this exchange, I am under no obligation to explain myself to you or to respond to your ill-natured deconstructions

If you don't get it that's a "you" problem

 

[firedragon]

Can a person not believe in the God of Abraham and be a Christian?

I don't how that's possible really.

 

[I Am Hugh]

The God that I believe in, obviously

Define God. Apparently, the God you believe in is impersonal, metaphysical, Jesus. How do you reconcile that aside from ignoring any curiosity, observation, or criticism in a public forum in which you brought the subject up?

It means that the identity of Jesus Christ - the name, the image, the personality and teachings - are all those of God

So, divorce, homosexuality, abortion? The trinity, the immortal soul, rapture, hell, cross, Christmas, Easter?

Any property of God is a property of Jesus and any property of Jesus is a property of God

[Sigh] Yeah, yeah, that's what the saffron robed hippie at the airport said when he tried to sell me flowers. Who cares?

It means that Jesus is not separate from "God" - he is how God emanates

Yes - and Jesus is God

I'm done with this exchange, I am under no obligation to explain myself to you or to respond to your ill-natured deconstructions

If you don't get it that's a "you" problem

That's good. Obviously, an interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16. Nothing you say matters anyway, you just want to be congratulated on ripping off the spirit of God and Christ. Congratulations.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Can a person not believe in the God of Abraham and be a Christian?

No, I don't think so. Jesus was a Jew - he believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So, if you want to be fully Christian you have to believe as Jesus Christ did or you can be just a sympathizer, a cultural Christian... However, some Bible verses can be interpreted as panentheistic, for example:

"For in him we live, and move, and have our being."

The Biblical God has theistic and panentheistic aspects - God is at the same time immanent in all Creation and revealing himself as a person to humans.

 

[Eddi]

Define God

The unmoved mover

The reason why there is something rather than nothing

God caused Jesus to come into existence and it is Jesus who made this reality and who cares for it

So, divorce, homosexuality, abortion? The trinity, the immortal soul, rapture, hell, cross, Christmas, Easter?

All those are from God, yes

God created nature and that's how things turned out, through nature happening

[Sigh] Yeah, yeah, that's what the saffron robed hippie at the airport said when he tried to sell me flowers. Who cares?

I take it you're a Christian?

I don't see how the typical Christian minister is any better than some person at an airport

There are some real perverts and crooks amongst that number

Feeling a little threatened are we???

That's good. Obviously, an interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16. Nothing you say matters anyway, you just want to be congratulated on ripping off the spirit of God and Christ. Congratulations.

Oh wow, an Epistle! That carries so much weight! - probably written centuries after it is supposed to have been - who cares!

Edit: see post 137 - I regret saying this, I didn't mean it

And I don't have any idea what you are on about

I'm sensing a lot of hostility

Not such a than of independent thought, are we?

You're trying to shut me down

Looks rather defensive to me, you seem rather fragile?

 

[Eddi]

No, I don't think so. Jesus was a Jew - he believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

He did

However it is worth noting that he got his religious ideas from the environment in which he was raised

Rather from considered reason

 

[Sargonski]

Can a person not believe in the God of Abraham and be a Christian?

I don't believe in a Supreme Being, I am a Pantheist

My "God" is metaphysical rather than personal

I don't believe in this guy:

View attachment 96939

However: I believe that Jesus Christ is somehow real (but won't go into the details of that here, not right now)

I believe that he is at work in our world right now, and I find the stories about him in the Christian scriptures to be inspiring and wise

So I don't know whether or not I can call myself a Christian

On RF the Christian DIR is under the Abrahamic DIR so I don't think I can really be active in there if I don't believe in the God that most people who profess to be Christians believe in

It depens on how one defines "Christian" . My definition is "Follower of Christ" = one who follows the teachings of Jesus as per Matt 7:21 "Only the one who does the will of the Father who art in heaven"

If you seek to do the will of the Father .. as given to humans via The Logos .. then you are a follower of Christ .. a Christian in my books

 

[Eddi]

2 Timothy 3:16

Oh wow, an Epistle! That carries so much weight! - probably written centuries after it is supposed to have been - who cares!

Just want to point out, I am agnostic about Paul (who wrote 2 Timothy)

Something feels a bit off about him, I'm not sure what

Maybe he did have the experience he reported as having had on the road to Damascus?

But I personally don't accept his epistles as much as I do the Gospels

I think the Gospels are a higher class of scripture, I put much more weight on those

But I was wrong to have dismissed him as I did in my earlier post

 

[Sargonski]

God caused Jesus to come into existence and it is Jesus who made this reality and who cares for it

All those are from God, yes

God created nature and that's how things turned out, through nature happening

All those things are from which God ? --- and how does this relate to the ridiculous claim that it is Jesus who made reality .. when you just said that it was some un-nammed God who made all of reality.

 

[Eddi]

All those things are from which God ? --- and how does this relate to the ridiculous claim that it is Jesus who made reality .. when you just said that it was some un-nammed God who made all of reality.

Existence is not the same as reality - although yes, reality exists

Jesus came to be from God (we don't know how or why) and Jesus shaped reality - out of a substance that existed before

I fail to see how this is any more ridiculous than what millions of orthodox Christians believe - all that Ex Nihilo stuff

To me Ex Nihilo is ridiculous and the entire universe is of God's substance

 

[Sargonski]

Existence is not the same as reality - although yes, reality exists

Jesus came to be from God (we don't know how or why) and Jesus shaped reality - out of a substance that existed before

I fail to see how this is any more ridiculous than what millions of orthodox Christians believe - all that Ex Nihilo stuff

To me Ex Nihilo is ridiculous and the entire universe is of God's substance

You are expressing exactly what millions of orthodox Christians believe .. and so what you are saying is not more rediculous .. however just as ridiculous. The "Trinity" concept is ridiculoys for numerous reasons . Do I need to list a few ? ---

The "Ex Nihlo Stuff" is your argument -- you have claimed that both God and Jesus created reality individually .. which makes no sense .in the context of "reality" nor existence.