Can all religions lead to God?

[Trailblazer]

I have no idea. but if a god is unknowable, then you don't "know" it exists, either.

I know God exists and God is unknowable because Baha'u'llah wrote that.

 

[Milton Platt]

I know God exists and God is unknowable because Baha'u'llah wrote that.

Circular??? How does he know an unknowable god?

 

[Trailblazer]

When a messenger of God came to Israel, or before that (such as to Abraham), they (1) told the truth, and (2) were never wrong, and (3) foretold the future accurately.

So, are you saying that is how do you think we could procure evidence for an 'unknowable' God?

 

[Trailblazer]

Circular??? How does he know an unknowable god?

No, it is not circular because Baha'u'llah was not God.
He knew about God because God spoke to Him, just as God spoke to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.

 

[YoursTrue]

I know God exists and God is unknowable because Baha'u'llah wrote that.

Interesting you should say that, because the Bible says the following about those who do not KNOW God: (1 Thessalonians chapter 4, verses 4-6) "Each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God; and no one should ever violate or exploit his brother in this regard, because the Lord will avenge all such acts, as we have already told you and solemnly warned you."

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it is not circular because Baha'u'llah was not God.
He knew about God because God spoke to Him, just as God spoke to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.

You say he knew ABOUT God, but he didn't know Him? (How did he know who was speaking to him, by the way?) Do the writings of Baha'u'llah have the words written in which God "spoke" to him, Moses, Jesus, AND Muhammad? just wondering...

 

[CG Didymus]

The other day a Jewish poster poster here said that the stories about what God did in the OT were not intended to be taken literally and that poster did not believe that God did any of those things attributed to Him in the OT. I sure wish I could remember who that was but with everyone I post to and who posts to me, I cannot keep track of posters unless they are ones who post to me regularly.

If the poster was a Reformed Jew than that's not all that surprising. Liberal Christians and liberal Jews would probably have no problem agreeing with most of the Baha'i beliefs. It's the Orthodox and Conservative Jews and the Evangelical and Fundamentalist sects of Christianity that take things more literally to very literally.

 

[Trailblazer]

Interesting you should say that, because the Bible says the following about those who do not KNOW God: (1 Thessalonians chapter 4, verses 4-6) "Each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God; and no one should ever violate or exploit his brother in this regard, because the Lord will avenge all such acts, as we have already told you and solemnly warned you."

So he is saying that those who do not know God are in lustful passion? I can buy that.

When I say God is unknowable, I mean God's Essence is unknowable. I did not mean we cannot know God at all. I believe we can know God's Attributes and God's Will through the Messengers of God. Knowing God and observing His commandments is the what we were created for, according to my beliefs.

“The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5

 

[Trailblazer]

You say he knew ABOUT God, but he didn't know Him? (How did he know who was speaking to him, by the way?) Do the writings of Baha'u'llah have the words written in which God "spoke" to him, Moses, Jesus, AND Muhammad? just wondering...

That's a very interesting question. I believe that Baha'u'llah knew the Attributes of God and God's Will because God revealed those to Him, but Baha'u'llah did not know the Essence of God (God's intrinsic nature). Nobody but God knows that according to my beliefs.

He knew it was God speaking to Him because of what happened when God spoke to Him, the effect it had upon Him, something you and I could never understand.

“And whenever I chose to hold my peace and be still, lo, the voice of the Holy Ghost, standing on my right hand, aroused me, and the Supreme Spirit appeared before my face, and Gabriel overshadowed me, and the Spirit of Glory stirred within my bosom, bidding me arise and break my silence. If your hearing be purged and your ears be attentive, ye will assuredly perceive that every limb of my body, nay all the atoms of my being, proclaim and bear witness to this call: “God, besides Whom is none other God, and He, Whose beauty is now manifest, is the reflection of His glory unto all that are in heaven and on earth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 103-104

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it is not circular because Baha'u'llah was not God.
He knew about God because God spoke to Him, just as God spoke to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.

This is what the Bible says at 1 John 4:6, referring to those who really listen to those that are sent from God. John wrote: "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us." So there are those that know Him, and those who don't.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is what the Bible says at 1 John 4:6, referring to those who really listen to those that are sent from God. John wrote: "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us." So there are those that know Him, and those who don't.

This is along the same lines as what Jesus said about "eyes to see and ears to hear."

 

[YoursTrue]

So he is saying that those who do not know God are in lustful passion? I can buy that.

When I say God is unknowable, I mean God's Essence is unknowable. I did not mean we cannot know God at all. I believe we can know God's Attributes and God's Will through the Messengers of God. Knowing God and observing His commandments is the what we were created for, according to my beliefs.

“The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5

Thank you for explaining that you mean God's essence is unknowable. Although He does let us know quite a bit about Him both by his operation towards mankind, and that He created the heavens and the earth. The Bible is very explicit in its explanations of what happened, when, and where. This also convinces me that it is a document beyond mankind's reach in that it was inspired, and the writings now known as the Bible, are given from God through those writings about him, and his activities towards mankind.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is along the same lines as what Jesus said about "eyes to see and ears to hear."

Does Bahallulah write about Pharaoh?

 

[YoursTrue]

So, are you saying that is how do you think we could procure evidence for an 'unknowable' God?

There were other gods during Abraham's time, but obviously Abraham responded to the One speaking to him. I am saying that only God's holy spirit, or His active unseen force can get a person to 'see.' Pharaoh had evidence of the God of Moses (the plagues), but he refused to obey.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's a very interesting question. I believe that Baha'u'llah knew the Attributes of God and God's Will because God revealed those to Him, but Baha'u'llah did not know the Essence of God (God's intrinsic nature). Nobody but God knows that according to my beliefs.

He knew it was God speaking to Him because of what happened when God spoke to Him, the effect it had upon Him, something you and I could never understand.

“And whenever I chose to hold my peace and be still, lo, the voice of the Holy Ghost, standing on my right hand, aroused me, and the Supreme Spirit appeared before my face, and Gabriel overshadowed me, and the Spirit of Glory stirred within my bosom, bidding me arise and break my silence. If your hearing be purged and your ears be attentive, ye will assuredly perceive that every limb of my body, nay all the atoms of my being, proclaim and bear witness to this call: “God, besides Whom is none other God, and He, Whose beauty is now manifest, is the reflection of His glory unto all that are in heaven and on earth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 103-104

OK, I checked the website you mentioned, and it seems Bahaullah did write about Pharaoh. Now my question is: do you know if Bahaullah read the Bible, or did he read the Qu'ran?

 

[Trailblazer]

Does Bahallulah write about Pharaoh?

Yes. Here are some instances in the Kitab-i-Iqan.
Baha'i Reference Library: Search Results

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, I checked the website you mentioned, and it seems Bahaullah did write about Pharaoh. Now my question is: do you know if Bahaullah read the Bible, or did he read the Qu'ran?

I know He read the Qur'an since He was raised as a Muslim, and I assume He read the Bible since He commented on it quite a bit.

 

[YoursTrue]

I've been waiting and wanting to hear more from you. How is your study of the Baha'i Faith going? Which relates to this thing about Adam. For Christians, Adam disobeyed God and got cursed. Because of that, some or most Christians believe that all of us have inherited a sin nature and are separated from fellowship with God because of our sin. But, the good news, Jesus paid the penalty. All people have to do is accept him and they will receive the free gift of salvation. Paul says that our works can never earn us salvation. It is only through faith. James adds to that and says that real faith, saving faith, has to have good works, though, but it's not the works that saves us.

Agree absolutely.

Baha'i have a much more positive explanation, but, for me, it is contradictory to that Christian view. They believe humans are born pure and without any taint of sin. Gaining spiritual qualities in this life will get us a better place in the next spiritual existences. ....

Thanks. (I have learned. Although I am still working on my personality with God's help, which I need, because -- I can be and have been very outspoken, considered rude by some.)
You bring up an interesting point about those being born pure, etc. The only ones I know of that began life without inherited sin are Adam, Eve, and Jesus*. And the only one who did not sin was Jesus. Thus he was a perfect man, without sin, fault, or flaw. (He did not deserve to die.) He knew, however, he would be put to death. So, all of us inherited sin and death from Adam. This was evidently a genetically passed on situation. Adam and Eve were not going to live forever on earth. They were slated to die once they sinned. I stop there for now and await your response to that, if possible.
Since Adam is said to pass on sin and death to his offspring, it is true in that no matter how sweet, cute, and clean an infant can be, we all know we are heading towards death. Nothing can stop it (except God, of course.) And He will. He will put away death forever. Revelation 21:4 - "He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”

 

[YoursTrue]

I know He read the Qur'an since He was raised as a Muslim, and I assume He read the Bible since He commented on it quite a bit.

It is said, however, that Muhammed couldn't read or write very well, if at all. Did he write the Qu'ran or did others? Before he had his first encounter with the angel, it is realized that he had conversations with those in his travels who claimed to believe in Christ.

 

[PearlSeeker]

But, look at some Christians right here, right now, they believe it. They, outwardly, don't question it. If we go down that road, then everything from Creation in six days to the ascension of Jesus and everything in between has to be believed as literally true, historical stories. God spoke from heaven. He sent fire from heaven. He stopped the Sun in the sky. He flooded the whole world in forty days and nights. Baha'is are at the opposite end of that. If it don't make sense, there must be a sensible and reasonable symbolic interpretation.

Also @Ehav4Ever

I agree those things in Bible were meant literally. For example heavens were literally spheres in the sky. This is just how ancient people (not just Jews and Christians) pictured things when there was no science and history (as we know it today) yet. There were myths and tales (and no copyrights). It made sense to them.

If we bear this in mind there is still a lot of wisdom and truth in the Bible. And I believe miracles are possible but they have to be better documented. Some "Word of God" believers just can't accept the human factor and stage of development. They think God would take care there aren't any flaws in his message.