Can all religions lead to God?

[YoursTrue]

You have a good point. We all think we have the "right beliefs." I was just watching a video that was posted on another forum about beliefs and it espouses many Baha'i principles....

It depends, doesn't it? Some people may have learned some things about religion, maybe born into it by family arrangement, maybe even believed it, but later figured (or realized) it wasn't true.

 

[Trailblazer]

It depends, doesn't it? Some people may have learned some things about religion, maybe born into it by family arrangement, maybe even believed it, but later figured (or realized) it wasn't true.

The question is, how did they realize it wasn't true, and how do they know what is true now.

 

[YoursTrue]

The question is, how did they realize it wasn't true, and how do they know what is true now.

Well, let's say, for starters, a person was raised to believe in God but then decides that God does not exist. Or he believed that evolution is true and that Jesus didn't know what he was saying when he spoke of God being the Creator of the first man and woman. So that person changed his mind (beliefs) about who or what God is or is not. Maybe he studied other beliefs and decided they were true rather than his former beliefs. Some people won't admit that they don't know what is true in any case.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'is believe that the Christ Spirit returned in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that is what Jesus promised to send, His Spirit. We believe that Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter and the Spirit of truth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

What is wrong about the Christians believing this was talking about the Holy Spirit descending on them on Pentecost? So, if Baha'u'llah is the promised "comforter" that doesn't arrive for nearly 2000 years, how do Baha'is explain what happened at Pentecost? Why is all this about something that won't get fulfilled until three manifestations later, Muhammad, The Bab and then finally Baha'u'llah? I know... more details. But you're the one that is saying this is what Baha'is believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, let's say, for starters, a person was raised to believe in God but then decides that God does not exist. Or he believed that evolution is true and that Jesus didn't know what he was saying when he spoke of God being the Creator of the first man and woman.

Was it Jesus who said God was the Creator of the first man and woman?

So that person changed his mind (beliefs) about who or what God is or is not. Maybe he studied other beliefs and decided they were true rather than his former beliefs. Some people won't admit that they don't know what is true in any case.

I understand how they changed their mind and realized what wasn't true, but and how do they know what is true?

 

[Trailblazer]

What is wrong about the Christians believing this was talking about the Holy Spirit descending on them on Pentecost?

I did not say anything was wrong with what Christian believe, although I do not agree with it.

So, if Baha'u'llah is the promised "comforter" that doesn't arrive for nearly 2000 years, how do Baha'is explain what happened at Pentecost?

What happened at Pentecost happened at Pentecost, but that is separate from what happened in the last days.

Acts 2:2-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In that same chapter in which we find the Pentecost account, we have this:

Acts 2:17-21And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

All of this happened before Baha’u’llah came

“As we look, we find the events recorded (in Revelation), following on in the order predicted.” (Our Day in the Light of Prophecy, Spicer, p. 77.) These events which he listed were as follows:

1. The Lisbon earthquake, 1755. 1755 Lisbon earthquake
2. The Dark Day, 1780. New England's Dark Day
3. The Falling Stars, 1833. The Falling of the Stars

It is interesting to note that the great star-fall came on the night of 12 November, which is the birthday of Bahá’u’lláh.

Excerpts from: http://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

 

[CG Didymus]

Was it Jesus who said God was the Creator of the first man and woman?

It doesn't matter does it? Baha'is aren't going to believe it. Whether it was a first man and woman or an amoeba, somebody or something got life started. But there's still more questions that I'd ask about the Bible story. Was the first man and woman really the Adam and Eve of the Bible? Since the Bible says how many years these first people lived, we can add up the numbers and see that the Bible is saying that the Earth isn't more than 10,000 years old. Then it says these first humans lived for hundreds of years. So by the time we're done asking questions about the Bible creation story, the less it sounds like it is true... except to those that take the Bible to be very, very literal.

 

[Trailblazer]

But there's still more questions that I'd ask about the Bible story. Was the first man and woman really the Adam and Eve of the Bible?

They can't be the first man and woman unless science is wrong.
As you know, Baha'is believe that any religious belief that contradicts science is mere superstition.

The first human ancestors appeared between five million and seven million years ago, probably when some apelike creatures in Africa began to walk habitually on two legs. They were flaking crude stone tools by 2.5 million years ago. Then some of them spread from Africa into Asia and Europe after two million years ago.Feb 26, 2002

When Humans Became Human - The New York Times

So by the time we're done asking questions about the Bible creation story, the less it sounds like it is true... except to those that take the Bible to be very, very literal.

Bingo!

 

[CG Didymus]

All of this happened before Baha’u’llah came

“As we look, we find the events recorded (in Revelation), following on in the order predicted.” (Our Day in the Light of Prophecy, Spicer, p. 77.) These events which he listed were as follows:

1. The Lisbon earthquake, 1755. 1755 Lisbon earthquake
2. The Dark Day, 1780. New England's Dark Day
3. The Falling Stars, 1833. The Falling of the Stars

It is interesting to note that the great star-fall came on the night of 12 November, which is the birthday of Bahá’u’lláh.

Excerpts from: http://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

What about all the earthquakes that have happened since? And then the big one that could knock California into the sea? What is the connection between Portugal and Baha'u'llah, other than it happened before he declared he was the promised one?

Same thing with the "dark" day... "The primary cause of the event is believed to have been a combination of smoke from forest fires,[2] a thick fog, and cloud cover. The darkness was so complete that candles were required from noon on. It did not disperse until the middle of the next night." That's a long time before Baha'u'llah came. And what about Portland after St. Helens blew up? That didn't get dark enough to count as a "dark" day?

At least with this one you do have some connection with Baha'u'llah... but the shooting stars were on the other side of the planet.

Your best prophecy, in my opinion, is still the William Miller figuring of the years from Daniel that got him to eventually believing 1844 was the day for the return of Christi. I still would question his starting date, since he had predicted other years. And why the year The Bab declared? Why not the main prophecy for the main guy, Baha'u'llah? I think the Baha'is here on the forum have shown me other prophecies that tie in Muhammad and Baha'u'llah, but they weren't anything nearly as strong as the one for The Bab.

Oh, and my Mom said that she saw a shooting star the day I was born... so I got that going for me.

 

[CG Didymus]

I did not say anything was wrong with what Christian believe, although I do not agree with it.
What happened at Pentecost happened at Pentecost, but that is separate from what happened in the last days.

Acts 2:2-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In that same chapter in which we find the Pentecost account, we have this:

Acts 2:17-21And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So they were filled with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost and spoke in different languages and prophesied and that is not what was predicted? That the Comforter is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? Again, Christians wrote this stuff. In fact it was written after the fact. Luke probably heard the stories of Jesus second hand. Probably his knowledge of the things that happened at Pentecost were second hand. I'm not saying it is true or false. To me, the context does support the Christian belief that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit descended on the believers on Pentecost.

I don't see it as a prophecy about a future "Messiah" that won't arrive until two others have come and gone.

 

[Trailblazer]

So they were filled with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost and spoke in different languages and prophesied and that is not what was predicted? That the Comforter is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? Again, Christians wrote this stuff. In fact it was written after the fact. Luke probably heard the stories of Jesus second hand. Probably his knowledge of the things that happened at Pentecost were second hand. I'm not saying it is true or false. To me, the context does support the Christian belief that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit descended on the believers on Pentecost.

As you know I do not see that either. The Holy Spirit descended at Pentecost, but not the Comforter.

I don't see it as a prophecy about a future "Messiah" that won't arrive until two others have come and gone.

The two others do not matter because they were not who those prophecies were referring to.

 

[CG Didymus]

They can't be the first man and woman unless science is wrong.
As you know, Baha'is believe that any religious belief that contradicts science is mere superstition.

The first human ancestors appeared between five million and seven million years ago, probably when some apelike creatures in Africa began to walk habitually on two legs. They were flaking crude stone tools by 2.5 million years ago. Then some of them spread from Africa into Asia and Europe after two million years ago.Feb 26, 2002

When Humans Became Human - The New York Times

Bingo!

Yeah, I'm good with that. Except Baha'is believe in the virgin birth. What's that all about? And, then there is the Baha'i belief that what ever humans might have looked like, they were always destined to become man. The questions I usually have with that is when did they get a soul/spirit attached to them? Not until they were totally humans? Or were there chimps walking around that had a soul while others didn't? Man gets to live a physical life on Earth and moves on? But all other life forms just get born and die and that's it? Then, when did macro evolution stop happening? Or, did it? And then, since God had to create everything out of nothing, why would He use evolution? Why not just create a world with all the things he wanted in that world? What did He create? Just the minerals and water and let a lightening bolt get evolution started? Or, did He create the Earth and breathed life into a single celled animal and let things develop from there?

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, let's say, for starters, a person was raised to believe in God but then decides that God does not exist. Or he believed that evolution is true and that Jesus didn't know what he was saying when he spoke of God being the Creator of the first man and woman. So that person changed his mind (beliefs) about who or what God is or is not. Maybe he studied other beliefs and decided they were true rather than his former beliefs. Some people won't admit that they don't know what is true in any case.

How are you with your beliefs? Do you think your beliefs are the only true ones, or do you allow for others to be at least partially right?

 

[Trailblazer]

Your best prophecy, in my opinion, is still the William Miller figuring of the years from Daniel that got him to eventually believing 1844 was the day for the return of Christi. I still would question his starting date, since he had predicted other years. And why the year The Bab declared? Why not the main prophecy for the main guy, Baha'u'llah? I think the Baha'is here on the forum have shown me other prophecies that tie in Muhammad and Baha'u'llah, but they weren't anything nearly as strong as the one for The Bab.

It was the year the Bab declared (1844) because that is the beginning of the time of the end which was also the beginning of the Cycle of Fulfillment (Baha'i Cycle) of religion.

Daniel Chapter 12: 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

What this says is that many would run to and fro, not understanding the meaning of the Bible. The words would be closed up and sealed until the time of the end because nobody could really understand what they mean. But those that waited the 2,300 years would know….

The 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed by the Bab and Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah unsealed the Bible and explained much of its formerly abstruse meanings that nobody could formerly understand. Also, by His coming He unsealed the meaning of the OT and NT prophecies for the coming of the Messiah and the return of Christ, because by His Coming we can now see that they refer to Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah, I'm good with that. Except Baha'is believe in the virgin birth. What's that all about?

It is what it is, and I have no problem with it.

And, then there is the Baha'i belief that what ever humans might have looked like, they were always destined to become man. The questions I usually have with that is when did they get a soul/spirit attached to them? Not until they were totally humans?

Nobody really knows the answer to that question except God. I would think they got the soul at the time they became totally human.

And then, since God had to create everything out of nothing, why would He use evolution? Why not just create a world with all the things he wanted in that world?

Nobody really knows the answer to that question except God.

What did He create? Just the minerals and water and let a lightening bolt get evolution started? Or, did He create the Earth and breathed life into a single celled animal and let things develop from there?

Nobody really knows the answer to those questions except God.

 

[Deeje]

Thank you CG Didymus, these are all good and reasonable questions.....but premise is everything in all these issues. When we begin with a wrong premise and base all our conclusions on it, we will never arrive at the truth.

I would like to address all these questions, so please bear with me...I’ll break them up.....

First, do you need to believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus to be saved?

To understand atonement for sin, is to understand the law of God that underpins it. An equivalent was needed to cancel a sin which was seen as a debt to God. To pay that debt, along with a repentant heart, a sacrifice was needed to reinforce the seriousness of sin to God. If it didn’t cost them something, then sin would have come to be an accepted “norm”, escalating to an horrendous degree....as was seen in the days of Noah. It had to have an impact on the sinner, costing them something of value in order to act as a deterrent.

Blood sacrifice was sometimes called for as blood was seen as a symbol of life itself. Instead of requiring the blood of the sinner, an animal substitute was offered. (again it was only a symbolic reminder) That sacrifice had to be the very best of what a person had. It cost them something, so that they never became complacent...and never offered their God something less than their very best. God knew when people held back their best for themselves, offering him only second best...or at worst something defective.

Christ is called a “redeemer” because of the law of redemption.
That law stated that when a man was in debt, and he could not pay it, he could offer himself or a son or daughter to work off the debt until it was paid. Much as we might take on several jobs or send a son or daughter out to work an extra job to help keep the family from poverty.

Depending on the size of the debt, it could mean many years of service to get the family out of trouble....or it could mean being in servitude for the rest of their lives. But if a generous benefactor saw the family’s plight, he could offer to pay the debt and free the man and his family from his servitude.

God provided his son to cancel a debt that humans could never pay.....this sacrifice (his very best) was so huge that it released all humanity from sin (provided that they were repentant) and offered them an opportunity for everlasting life, taking them back to what God purposed in the beginning.....everlasting life in paradise.(Isaiah 55:11)

The sin of the first humans caused an unbreachable barrier between them and God...that barrier was bridged by Jesus being appointed as a mediator. God made a way to keep communication with him, open. So rather than snuffing out the rebels or sitting back and allowing sin to bring about their inevitable decline, both morally and spiritually into extinction, he took the steps necessary to fix it all, with the long term benefits in view. Time is our greatest enemy in this.....but time is what God has in abundance....we don’t.

 

[Deeje]

Do all that reject him go to hell?

There is no such place as Christendom’s “hell”....there never was.The only choice God gave his nation was "life or death"....not "heaven or hell". Another failed premise.

Then, there has been people before and after Jesus that had other "gods" and other beliefs... are they all wrong and therefore condemned by God?

No one who has died in ignorance is condemned. Only those who sin deliberately and unrepentantly will face the ultimate penalty....which is death. There is no place of torture after death. The worst that happens to humans is that they will not have their lives restored. Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life.
Another premise that is misleading.

Then we have people who thought they believed in Jesus, but they belonged to a church that didn't teach the truth about God and Jesus, what's God going to do with them?

Since it is God who searches the heart, it is he who “draws” those who have the qualities that he is looking for as citizens of his incoming kingdom. (John 6:44; 65) All nations today have criteria for citizenship and require obedience to their sovereign ruler and the laws of that nation.....why should God require less?

Now, if we assume the Bible is literal. God set up Adam and Eve for the fall. Why put a tree in the middle of the garden and tell Adam not to eat its fruit? Like why not put some cherubim around it guarding it with swords ready to fend off Adam or his kids from getting too close...

God gave humans free will.....so if the tree was guarded so that no one could access it, then that was a violation of their free will. What God did to dissuade them was to attach a heavy penalty to partaking of its fruitage....a penalty so severe that only a fool would disobey....but the humans foolishly fell for a lie, believing someone who had given them nothing, but suggesting that the penalty did not apply. "You surely will not die" is what he told the woman.

The tree was a test no doubt....but all that God required of the humans was to respect his sovereign right to make the rules governing their activities. That tree was the only one out of all the trees in the garden that was his property. They should have respected what belonged to God and obeyed him as their Sovereign and ruler. There was no great list of rules.....there was just one which, if obeyed would not have cost them anything.

We tend to forget that the humans were not the first rebels. One of God’s angels had ambitions to become a god himself, but there was no creature in existence who could give him what he wanted....until the creation of humankind. God’s response is not just about us....it involves his angelic creation as well....so God’s focus is on them to a greater extent than us. We are virtually the hostages in this situation......the ransom has been paid....and we are preparing to go "home"......back to what God planned in the beginning...it wasn't heaven.

Oh, and what about the ripened fruit? Did it fall to the ground and then little trees of the knowledge of good and evil sprout up?

There was nothing about the tree or the fruit itself that caused humans to die. It was the sin of disobedience that caused the humans to lose their prospects for a secure and happy future. The death penalty was not immediate, but the effects of their sin set in straight away. Sin entered their consciousness and a knowledge of evil invaded their thoughts. So God’s first response was to bar the way to the tree of life....the means God had put in the garden to guarantee everlasting life. Sinners would not be permitted to live forever. God chose to allow the now imperfect humans to populate the earth as he had mandated, and then to have each member of the human race show God who they really are.

Anyway, the set up... God has a lying, cheating talking serpent in the garden? Why? Except to try and deceive Adam and Eve, and the serpent succeeded. As if God didn't know what was going to happen. He set them up and then cursed them. Or, it's all a myth.

That lying cheating serpent was once a faithful angel who was of high rank in the heavenly scheme of things, being given a position of responsibility as a guardian in Eden. (Cherubs are the guardians in the Bible)
Instead of doing his job, he began to entertain wrong thoughts and carefully observed the humans to see how he could entrap them, and separate them from God. Once he did that...they were his.

God did not "set them up" but he did not prevent them from exercising their free will either.....They had no excuse for what they did, so an object lesson was in order....God would allow them to 'reap what they had sown'....with limited intervention from himself.
They would experience first hand what it meant to treat their maker with disrespect and to disobey his commands.

He created people in such a way that they become uncontrollably evil? Except Noah and his family? And since no one if perfect, why these people? Where was the cut off line that determined who was too evil to be spared?

He did no such thing. He created the humans to be perfect....but free willed. All they needed to do to retain their 'perfection' was to stay within the boundaries he set for them. Nothing was difficult.....until sin entered the picture. It was what they chose, not only for themselves but also for all their children. There are so many lessons contained in God's permission of what followed the rebellion in Eden....but humans continue to miss them, thereby condemning themselves to repeating them.

Out of all the people of that violent, immoral pre-flood world, only Noah found favor with God.....why? Because he stood out as different to all the rest....the only righteous man in existence. One who willingly obeyed the direction of his God when all those around him had failed to do so. His heart was not corrupted like all the rest.

 

[Deeje]

God kills them all. Did God succeed in getting rid of the problem of evil in the world? No, he killed those evil people and then the descendance of Noah again become too evil.

The flood was nothing more than a stop-gap measure to slow down the spread of evil caused by the rebellion of angels who materialized and took human women to bed, creating a hybrid race of gigantic bullies who were causing a climate of fear, immorality and violence that God had to stop. By causing a global flood, God destroyed the world of that time, getting rid of a race that had no right to exist, punishing those who followed their lead, and forcing the angels back to the spirit realm by destroying anything material which could harbor them on earth. He thereby set precedents for what was to come later when Christ returned. (Matthew 24:37-39) We are living in the same kind of immoral and violent world today....I believe that Christ is about to bring this world to an end.

Most start worshipping other gods. God has his people kill some of them. But never all of them. God kills of some of his people too. He has one person draw his sword and kill the person next to them. He has his people enslaved for several centuries, then sends them off to wander in the wilderness for forty years. Then has them kill and take over the land of Canaan. He has them kill all the woman and children and animals in some of the cities. He wants his people to sacrifice animals to him. Are you sure this is how an all-loving and just God would act? Or, its all Jewish religious mythology... maybe with some historical things mixed in.

Understanding God's reasons helps us to see how all of that makes sense. It clearly defines what kind of human behavior is acceptable to God, and what is not. The death penalty applied when gross wickedness was demonstrated...and by using his own people as executioners, he established the rules and how the stated penalties could be applied. Israel did not always carry out God's commands to the letter and as a result things went awry. Their history I believe, is faithfully recorded...warts and all so we can all learn the lessons.
Everything that God permitted became a pictorial example of things to come.

Then Jesus... God doesn't have him write anything down. His followers write the stuff down and then over the centuries interpret it and set up a religious rulership based on it. That rulership gets too corrupt. Some Christians break away and start over. They don't get everything right.

This was all foretold. The apostate thinking that corrupted Judaism, also corrupted Christianity. It starts when humans begin to elevate themselves above others. Power always corrupts, which is why Jesus said never to set up hierarchy in the congregations. He said all were equal. The positions of oversight in the congregations were positions of service to the flock, not to command them, but to shepherd them. They were answerable to God for any failure to care for God's precious sheep. Sometimes discipline was required. They were authorized to administer it, but woe betide them if they themselves were not living up to those standards themselves.

Finally comes the Jehovah Witnesses. Out of all the religions and people in the world, including people in the other Christian churches have it right? Or, are only the Jehovah Witnesses right? If so, what does God have planned for the rest of the people? Is it all the bad things in Revelation?

This was right on time...as Daniel had foretold concerning the "the time of the end". (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) Only at this time would God "cleanse, whiten and refine" his worshippers, cleaning out all the things that had made "Christianity" filthy in his eyes. Things that were added to God's word by means of human traditions that had no place, but they ended up as doctrines. Daniel indicated that the "wicked" would understand nothing, refusing the cleansing and carrying on as normal. Christendom and those who love her teachings will wonder what hit them at the judgment. (Matthew 7:21-32) Its not like they weren't told.....

Then God isn't all that nice a guy. He's created a world that has lots of choices and most of them are wrong and most people are going to follow the wrong ones. Then He, the all-knowing, all-loving God of the universe, is going to punish them. At least the Baha'i version of God is a little bit nicer, but He's still going to put the world through hell for rejecting his latest messenger.

But isn't that the real test of humanity? Aren't people looking for a God who suits them, rather than to seek the God who made the universe for his purpose.....we are just a tiny part of the big picture? If we seek the Box that God has made for himself, instead of trying to fit him into the box we have made for him, then all things become crystal clear.

Who are we?....and why are we here? Answer those questions and you answer everything.

To me, religion, most all religions, is mainly set up to get people to obey rules out of fear of punishment or the joy of a great reward for being obedient to an invisible God. Bad things happen to relatively good people and bad people alike. And good things happen to both. The promise, one of these days, is that God will reward the good and punish the evil. Is this God real or just a myth

Its about God's patience in bringing about all that his first purpose meant......he has taken the long road with the long range view in mind, so as to allow issues to arise and for humans to respond to them. He is testing us to see if we want what he is offering, and how patient we are in realizing that "a thousand years" to us is like a mere "day" to a timeless God. We live in his world...he does not live in ours....nor are we the sole beneficiaries of methods. It is we who must make the adjustments in our thinking to comply with God's.....because he will never adjust his thinking to comply with ours. His is a dictatorship, not a democracy....but he is the most benevolent dictator anyone could imagine.

If only the God as defined by the Jehovah Witnesses is real, then the Gods of all the other religions are mythical. For me, I get the feeling that all Gods might be partially or totally mythical. So it isn't a question of God breaching His standards. It's a question of people making up their own ideas of what God is, and using those ideas to explain why the world is how it is.

Yes...The God of the Bible is a God who rewards the good and punishes the evil.....but remember that, in the beginning, no evil would have ever entered human experience if the humans had just obeyed....meaning that 'good' is all we would have ever known. Humans chose to know evil and God allowed them to see what it means in every way.....do we wish it had never happened? God does, but as an expression of free will they chose to know.....so God gave them what they wanted.....or what they thought they wanted.....for all free moral agents, the consequences of their actions and how they impact on others, are not always well thought out....isn't this the value of life lessons?

These lessons will last for all eternity to come, setting precedents for the future so that these questions regarding God's Universal Sovereignty can never be raised again.

That is how I understand the Bible's overall message.

 

[CG Didymus]

No one who has died in ignorance is condemned.

Great, now that you've told me I can't use my ignorance as an excuse.

 

[YoursTrue]

The question is, how did they realize it wasn't true, and how do they know what is true now.

Sometimes a person is looking for the truth about God and they pray for enlightenment. And God reads the heart and he can give it to them. When I was finally searching, I prayed to a God I didn't know anything about. God answered my prayer by allowing me to understand more about the Bible. Other than that, I can't answer you now. If one is not looking, or searching and thinks he is satisfied, there is nothing to reveal or change.