Can Christians fall from God's Grace

[slabbey06]

Every time you say that an angel gets its wings.:yes:

Once saved, always saved....once saved always, always saved...

 

[McBell]

That is exactly what I am saying. You were never a true Christian. You articulated my point well-- thanks. No personal attacks, but that is the plain fact of the matter. You were a seed that got choked.

Your No True Scotsman is a handy out, isn't it?

Interesting also how you believe that once you "honestly and truly"choose to be a Christian, you are never going to be allowed freedom of choice ever again.
Sad really.

But on a happier note, at least for me, I have chosen to no longer be a Christian and it was "Christians" like you that opened my eyes to the truths I was seeking.

 

[wizanda]

Mat 5:33-36
(33) Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
(34) But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
(35) Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
(36) Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.


Luk 7:41-43
(41) There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
(42) And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
(43) Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Saved from your self?

Mat 23:18
(18) And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the Sacrifice (gift) that is upon it, he is guilty.

Pharisees make you swear?

 

[may]

His name is Yeshua; that shows us how much you care, as asked the other day and informed you it is an insult...

JESUS

CHRIST​

The name and title of the Son of God from the time of his anointing while on earth.​

The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sous´) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning "Jehovah Is Salvation." The name itself was not unusual, many men being so named in that period. For this reason persons often added further identification, saying, "Jesus the Nazarene." (Mr 10:47; Ac 2:22) Christ is from the Greek Khri·stos´, the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shi´ach (Messiah), and means "Anointed One." Whereas the expression "anointed one" was properly applied to others before Jesus, such as Moses, Aaron, and David (Heb 11:24-26; Le 4:3; 8:12; 2Sa 22:51), the position, office, or service to which these were anointed only prefigured the superior position, office, and service of Jesus Christ. Jesus is therefore preeminently and uniquely "the Christ, the Son of the living God."—Mt 16:16;

​

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Your No True Scotsman is a handy out, isn't it?

Interesting also how you believe that once you "honestly and truly"choose to be a Christian, you are never going to be allowed freedom of choice ever again.
Sad really.

But on a happier note, at least for me, I have chosen to no longer be a Christian and it was "Christians" like you that opened my eyes to the truths I was seeking.

I didn't say that you couldn't be forgiven and recieved back into the body of Christ. You most certainly can.

 

[may]

Sheep are those who just follow without looking and eat far too much, until they pop...

sheep are those who listen to Jesus voice John 10;16 and they are looking very intently at the one on the throne (JEHOVAH) and the one who has been given great aurthority (Jesus) REVELATION 7;9-10 and they are really full up with lots of good bible based spiritual food . thats because they are listening to Jesus voice and feeding from the channel that Jesus is feeding matthew 24;45-47 and rather than popping they are sharing this food with others . so they are always satisfied , and never ever starving in a spiritual way . BUT we all know what happens when a sheep strays away from the flock,............... he gets lost , and if he is not careful he might wander away from the good food supply , and he could become spiritually starved , and he could end up eating rubbish food instead . and that would not be good for that sheep in the long run. but as we all know if he is a sheep at heart he will listen and hear his shepherds voice ,because that shepherd will make sure that he comes searching for that lost sheep .

 

[McBell]

I didn't say that you couldn't be forgiven and recieved back into the body of Christ. You most certainly can.

Now you fat out contradict yourself.
How can I be "received back" when, according to you, I was never there to begin with?

 

[sojourner]

That is exactly what I am saying. You were never a true Christian. You articulated my point well-- thanks. No personal attacks, but that is the plain fact of the matter. You were a seed that got choked.

Isn't this a little myopic? After all, when the disciples rebuked the man for casting out demons -- but he was not "one of them," Jesus answered, "Those who are not against us are for us."

The great thing about grace is that it cannot be choked out. Otherwise, the Christ event is worth nothing. Reconciliation was given to humanity, through grace, in the Incarnation. Nothing can take that away from us.

 

[Sonic247]

John 10:28- And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

If it wasn't enough to say they are given eternal life Jesus follows it up with they shall never perish. If there would be in the future some on who had eternal life and perished would perish that would make Jesus a liar.

Ephesians 4:30- And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If something is sealed in order to be reedemed later as far as the market goes, then it's already set aside and paid for it just needs to be picked up.

1st John 2:26- And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.

I think it's safe to say God will keep his promise

Hebrews 10:14- For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Christ must have died for our future sins also or he would have to constantly be recrucified, but it say they are perfected forever although they still sin.

But this isn’t to convince me: These [things] have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Now you fat out contradict yourself.
How can I be "received back" when, according to you, I was never there to begin with?

I'm not playing a semantical game, let's clarify that.

1. You once confessed and than denied . . . that makes you, according to the Bible, an apostate, an unbeliver, and an idolater.

2. If you die in that state, I think that the bible would substantiate that you were never born again.

3. However, I think that even a beliver could commit some seriously gross sin and than be forgiven . . . that is what is so good about grace.

 

[McBell]

I'm not playing a semantical game, let's clarify that.

1. You once confessed and than denied . . . that makes you, according to the Bible, an apostate, an unbeliver, and an idolater.

2. If you die in that state, I think that the bible would substantiate that you were never born again.

3. However, I think that even a beliver could commit some seriously gross sin and than be forgiven . . . that is what is so good about grace.

Nice try.
The fact of the matter is that I will not be going back to Christianity.
To much chaos and confusion.

 

[sojourner]

I'm not playing a semantical game, let's clarify that.

1. You once confessed and than denied . . . that makes you, according to the Bible, an apostate, an unbeliver, and an idolater.

2. If you die in that state, I think that the bible would substantiate that you were never born again.

3. However, I think that even a beliver could commit some seriously gross sin and than be forgiven . . . that is what is so good about grace.

1) Who does that make him according to Christ?
2) How would Christ substantiate his disposition? Would the Good Shepherd seek the lost until he found him?
3) What is so great about grace is that, through it, the only sin is forgiven sin.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Nice try.
The fact of the matter is that I will not be going back to Christianity.
To much chaos and confusion.

What's so confusing? Why not? Shouldn't we be open minded?

 

[TheGreaterGame]

1) Who does that make him according to Christ?
2) How would Christ substantiate his disposition? Would the Good Shepherd seek the lost until he found him?
3) What is so great about grace is that, through it, the only sin is forgiven sin.

1. It makes them exactly what I said in the previous statement.

2. Your getting into issues of God's will and man's will here.

3. I agree that grace is amazing.

 

[McBell]

What's so confusing? Why not? Shouldn't we be open minded?

I have seen Christianity from many sides and many POVs.
It is something that I disagree with and that disagreement is between me and YHWH.

Being open minded is a good thing.
Unless your brain falls out.
And in order for me to go back to Christianity, my brain would not only have to fall out, but get run over a few times.

 

[Vassal]

Galatians 5:4 :run: :yes:

Typical Church of Christ out-of-context scripture usage. I know, since I attend one. No Christians cannot fall from grace. Look at verses 1-3, Paul is talking about people who are trying to be saved through the law of Moses by being circumcised. A Christian is, by definition, someone who is saved by grace and not by the law. So obviously this is not Christians he is talking about, but the Jews who are fallen from grace.

 

[Yəhošafat]

Typical Church of Christ out-of-context scripture usage. I know, since I attend one. No Christians cannot fall from grace. Look at verses 1-3, Paul is talking about people who are trying to be saved through the law of Moses by being circumcised. A Christian is, by definition, someone who is saved by grace and not by the law. So obviously this is not Christians he is talking about, but the Jews who are fallen from grace.

Amen, so true.


It is a problem when men and women take one verse, ignore the whole context, and then create a whole new doctrine, or false views. Alot of people on here do it, i percieve, that they really dont understand the3 whole context of what they claim the bible says, and therefore they give a lie, a half-truth, or a religiously twisted interpretation.

 

[Free4all]

You took the words right out of my mouth! Amen Gotta watch that word circumcised.

 

[Reverend Rick]

To take it a few steps further...
Are you saying that once you are a "true" Christian, you are 'stuck' being a Christian?
That is exactly what you have implied.
That one has to choose Christianity and that once they 'honestly and truly' choose Christianity, they cannot choose to no longer be a Christian.

I happen to strongly disagree with that position.
I was a Christian and then chose to no longer be a Christian.
What you are saying is that I was never a "true" Christian even though as my role as prison cleric I brought several people closer to God.
How does this little theory of yours effect those whom I brought closer to God?

Furthermore, you are basically saying that my devotion, choice, worship, etc. was all meaningless and empty because I was never a 'true' Christian.
Like I said, it is merely a convenient out.

Perhaps we will get you back and you were a true Christian.

 

[ChristineES]

It has always been my belief that once a person is truly saved, that he/she cannot lose his/her salvation. There are many quotes in the bible to support this, but I am not going to post them.
(when I quote verses, it is from e-sword. Makes it easier)