Can gays or bisexuals be Christian?

[sojourner]

God thinks in the OT and the NT that spilling or wasting semen is evil and a man having sex with a man is evil. I'll look up the verse for you if that's what it takes.
Jesus followed the Prophets too. I'll quote the OT verse when I find it. Both say do unto others as you would have them do to you.

Do you know why the writers felt that God thinks wasting semen is evil? Do you know why they thought men having sex together is evil? Until you understand those things, you oughtn't waste everyone's time spouting platitudes. There are legitimate reasons why they felt that way, and also why it doesn't pertain to us.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God thinks in the OT and the NT that spilling or wasting semen is evil and a man having sex with a man is evil. I'll look up the verse for you if that's what it takes.
Jesus followed the Prophets too. I'll quote the OT verse when I find it. Both say do unto others as you would have them do to you.

You might be misinterpreting the text on Onan. He was not evil for wasting sperm. He was supposed to impregnate his dead brother's widow. Instead he pulled out. That was seen as going against God and was therefore "wicked". There is nothing else that I know of in the Bible in that regard.

 

[Jainarayan]

God thinks in the OT and the NT that spilling or wasting semen is evil and a man having sex with a man is evil. I'll look up the verse for you if that's what it takes.
Jesus followed the Prophets too. I'll quote the OT verse when I find it. Both say do unto others as you would have them do to you.

We all know the verse, Lev. 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with a male as with a woman, such a thing is an abomination". But the word translated as abomination is not what is in the original Hebrew. The word used is more like 'taboo'. And it was addressed specifically to the tribe of Levi, the priests. Hence Leviticus. God was telling them not to do that because their neighbors did it. And God was wildly keen on making sure the Hebrews recognized their separateness from their neighbors, as God's chosen.

 

[Muffled]

Nothing stops a gay person from believing that Jesus is his lord and saviour.

I believe that is true but if the belief is false it doesn't help the person at all.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus never said anything about homosexuality so the answer is not a resounding "No". If anything he was against adultery, in other words he wanted people to be true to the one that they were with. A gay person can't do that with a female. Better to marry a gay person that he loves.

Try to use an appropriate analogy. A person is not born a drug addict. One becomes one through a series of bad choices.

I believe the null hypothesis is a lack of evidence. Jesus never said anything contrary to the law against homosexuality so the law stands and Jesus in me agrees.

A person is born with many bad traits that can be overcome with discipline. I was born with dyslexia but I do my best not to write that way.

 

[Muffled]

You have no idea what you’re talking about in this particular area. The Bible is far, far from “clear” on this issue. Far from “clear.” There is no term in the original languages that transliterates to “homosexual” as it is understood today. In fact, the ancients had no concept of homosexuality as a sexual orientation. Any of the (very few) passages ostensibly dealing with homosexuality are more likely dealing with either temple prostitution or the cultural issue of shame and honor as embedded in gender.

Homosexuals are welcome to be fully Christian, and are acceptable, as is, to God who created them as they are. I say this as a duly ordained Christian cleric with standing in a mainstream denomination, and as one who holds a graduate degree in biblical studies.

I believe that is a bogus argument. The law is quite clear.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe the null hypothesis is a lack of evidence. Jesus never said anything contrary to the law against homosexuality so the law stands and Jesus in me agrees.

A person is born with many bad traits that can be overcome with discipline. I was born with dyslexia but I do my best not to write that way.

If you are gong to apply the null hypothesis to what Jesus said then you would need to apply the null hypothesis to the whole Bible and that ends up with it being unbelievable. Careful which tools you use.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that is a bogus argument. The law is quite clear.

What you *believe* is irrelevant. The argument takes under consideration the nature of the texts, the intended audience, the cultural understanding of the writers vs. our cultural understanding, and Jesus teaching that love trumps all other laws. It’s a solid argument; you’re simply uncomfortable with it.

 

[Avoice1C]

You might be misinterpreting the text on Onan. He was not evil for wasting sperm. He was supposed to impregnate his dead brother's widow. Instead he pulled out. That was seen as going against God and was therefore "wicked". There is nothing else that I know of in the Bible in that regard.

The commandments speak of it. It is a form of Idolatry and adultery. One can give orgasm to one's self and that becomes idolatry. It starts to come before devotion to God. It is a form of adultery by putting semen in something other than one's female wife.

 

[Avoice1C]

We all know the verse, Lev. 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with a male as with a woman, such a thing is an abomination". But the word translated as abomination is not what is in the original Hebrew. The word used is more like 'taboo'. And it was addressed specifically to the tribe of Levi, the priests. Hence Leviticus. God was telling them not to do that because their neighbors did it. And God was wildly keen on making sure the Hebrews recognized their separateness from their neighbors, as God's chosen.

Scripture below from the Complete Jewish Bible for e-Sword.com
Lev 1:1 Adonai called to Moshe and spoke to him from the tent of meeting. He said,
Lev 1:2 "Speak to the people of Isra'el; say to them, 'When any of you brings an offering to Adonai, you may bring your animal offering either from the herd or from the flock.

Lev 1:7 The descendants of Aharon the cohen are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire.
Lev 1:8 The sons of Aharon, the cohanim, are to arrange the pieces, the head and the fat on the wood which is on the fire on the altar.
God was speaking to Moses about all the Israelites and mentioned the Sons of Aaron when he was speaking to the priesthood. Lev 18:22 is about the people in my reading of the scriptures.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The commandments speak of it. It is a form of Idolatry and adultery. One can give orgasm to one's self and that becomes idolatry. It starts to come before devotion to God. It is a form of adultery by putting semen in something other than one's female wife.

That is quite the reinterpretation.

 

[Avoice1C]

That is quite the reinterpretation.

It is the way I look at it not a reinterpretation. I think God was concerned about a lot more than reproduction of the Hebrew people.

 

[Avoice1C]

You might be misinterpreting the text on Onan. He was not evil for wasting sperm. He was supposed to impregnate his dead brother's widow. Instead he pulled out. That was seen as going against God and was therefore "wicked". There is nothing else that I know of in the Bible in that regard.

I wasn't even thinking of Onan.

 

[Jainarayan]

Scripture below from the Complete Jewish Bible for e-Sword.com
Lev 1:1 Adonai called to Moshe and spoke to him from the tent of meeting. He said,
Lev 1:2 "Speak to the people of Isra'el; say to them, 'When any of you brings an offering to Adonai, you may bring your animal offering either from the herd or from the flock.

Lev 1:7 The descendants of Aharon the cohen are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire.
Lev 1:8 The sons of Aharon, the cohanim, are to arrange the pieces, the head and the fat on the wood which is on the fire on the altar.
God was speaking to Moses about all the Israelites and mentioned the Sons of Aaron when he was speaking to the priesthood. Lev 18:22 is about the people in my reading of the scriptures.

Nice way of spinning to justify condemning gays. I’m not Christian or Jewish myself, so personally it’s not binding on me nor do I really care. But it’s other gay men my heart aches for because of hateful words and beliefs like yours. I do pray that people become enlightened and compassionate as the God I pray to is, with never a word of disapproval for anyone.

 

[columbus]

It is the way I look at it not a reinterpretation. I think God was concerned about a lot more than reproduction of the Hebrew people.

In other words, you have opinions that can't really be found in the Bible. But you're sure it's what God "must have meant".
Tom

 

[Jainarayan]

The commandments speak of it. It is a form of Idolatry and adultery. One can give orgasm to one's self and that becomes idolatry. It starts to come before devotion to God. It is a form of adultery by putting semen in something other than one's female wife.

You forgot to add “I believe...”, “my view is...”, and other such disclaimers to the beginning of each sentence. I count four. Of course a boiler plate “these are my beliefs/views... “ disclaimer at the beginning or end of the post goes a very long way to lending credibility.

 

[Avoice1C]

In other words, you have opinions that can't really be found in the Bible. But you're sure it's what God "must have meant".
Tom

The fact than Paul brings it up, is what I base that opinion on.

 

[Avoice1C]

You forgot to add “I believe...”, “my view is...”, and other such disclaimers to the beginning of each sentence. I count four. Of course a boiler plate “these are my beliefs/views... “ disclaimer at the beginning or end of the post goes a very long way to lending credibility.

Thanks I'll try to remember that. It would help the one I'm responding to also.

 

[Avoice1C]

Nice way of spinning to justify condemning gays. I’m not Christian or Jewish myself, so personally it’s not binding on me nor do I really care. But it’s other gay men my heart aches for because of hateful words and beliefs like yours. I do pray that people become enlightened and compassionate as the God I pray to is, with never a word of disapproval for anyone.

Sadly it is my opinion, from the stories from gays I've heard, that, at least, most of them were abused as children by homo type pedophiles. They grow up not knowing what they are or the pleasure of a woman.
I do not mean to condemn them and have had one as a friend, but, the Bible is pretty clear on how God views the practice.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We all know the verse, Lev. 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with a male as with a woman, such a thing is an abomination". But the word translated as abomination is not what is in the original Hebrew. The word used is more like 'taboo'. And it was addressed specifically to the tribe of Levi, the priests. Hence Leviticus. God was telling them not to do that because their neighbors did it. And God was wildly keen on making sure the Hebrews recognized their separateness from their neighbors, as God's chosen.

Yeah. God didn't want the Israelites to act as the pagans. Homosexual activity in itself does nothing. Since pagans did it with other activities the context was sexual promiscuity which has nothing to do with homosexuality.

It's probably because god wanted priest to stay clean of flesh and spirit. Humility of the body. Not homosexuality whatsoever.