Can good people go to hell?

[Demonslayer]

What do you mean the same thing? Dumb question.

You said on Facebook there are Christians who tell Satanists that they are going to hell. I was saying atheists get the same treatment. Is that dumb somehow?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yes of course, it's quite impossible.

I'd much, much rather believe in, say, the world of Star Wars. Perhaps intergalactic adventure awaits me!

I'd WAY rather believe in that than the world of evil demons and a God who allows millions to be eternally enslaved by the demon horde. So you think...you know...you think I could "just believe it." But alas, I'm aware I'll never have a wookie copilot or the ability to hit a womp rat with a photon torpedo. If I can't force myself to believe maybe one day I'll be a Jedi Knight, how could I convince myself that I'm heading for eternal torture because I lost the religious belief lottery, choosing the wrong one out of millions?

Makes for an interesting bit of thinking... as you said, if you were going to allow your imagination to conjure up something to be believed, then why not make it something altogether enjoyable? Rather than the dichotomy of heaven and hell, within which there exists the fear of "getting it wrong", and that leading to eternal punishment. It's just... well it just seems weird.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

However, that said, I try to remember that I am Buddhist by choice and I assume they are Christian by choice.

In christians homes young and kids and young teens are forced to worship god. Just saying.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

You said on Facebook there are Christians who tell Satanists that they are going to hell. I was saying atheists get the same treatment. Is that dumb somehow?

Idk... lol

 

[First Baseman]

In christians homes young and kids and young teens are forced to worship god. Just saying.

No, they are brought up to have faith. No one can force a person to worship anything. Worship comes from the heart. The heart cannot be forced to do anything. A person can be forced to go through all of the motions but that is just religion and it isn't sincere faith. The Pharisees were guilty of religion without faith.

 

[Demonslayer]

No one can force a person to worship anything. Worship comes from the heart. The heart cannot be forced to do anything. A person can be forced to go through all of the motions but that is just religion and it isn't sincere faith.

It's true, I was forced to go through all of the motions...Catholic training (CCD), weekly church services, prayer, I was even confirmed when I was old enough. But I never bought into it...just went along with it because I was still under my parents control.

Still, some people can be forced to go through the motions, but instead of reacting the way I did they may eventually buy in and then the actions become genuine. The fact is everyone is forced to go through the motions at first. Right? When you're 2 and your parents teach you how to pray before you go to bed...you'd never do that on your own as a 2 year old. Parents tell you exactly what to say and you say it, over and over again. Individual reactions are different...some embrace the behavior and it becomes genuine, some reject the behavior and as First Baseman says, in those cases it's not sincere faith.

But the origin of faith for nearly all individuals is an initial behavioral mandate by parents.

 

[First Baseman]

It's true, I was forced to go through all of the motions...Catholic training (CCD), weekly church services, prayer, I was even confirmed when I was old enough. But I never bought into it...just went along with it because I was still under my parents control.

Still, some people can be forced to go through the motions, but instead of reacting the way I did they may eventually buy in and then the actions become genuine. The fact is everyone is forced to go through the motions at first. Right? When you're 2 and your parents teach you how to pray before you go to bed...you'd never do that on your own as a 2 year old. Parents tell you exactly what to say and you say it, over and over again. Individual reactions are different...some embrace the behavior and it becomes genuine, some reject the behavior and as First Baseman says, in those cases it's not sincere faith.

But the origin of faith for nearly all individuals is an initial behavioral mandate by parents.

I can agree with that in a general way. If your parents teach you from birth that a dog lizard is god you would believe it at first.

 

[viole]

I can agree with that in a general way. If your parents teach you from birth that a dog lizard is god you would believe it at first.

You will believe it forever if everyone else around you does.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

I've told people who thought they were good to "go to hell". As far as I know though, none of them have actually been there... yet.

Seriously though - there is most likely no such place. I myself am 99.999999999999(continue ad Infinitum) percent sure of this. I reserve the 0.0000000(you get the idea) percent because I don't claim absolute certainty about anything spiritual. But yeah - it's definitely one of the more prevalent "no proof", "no way of knowing what it's actually like" stories out there. People do love their stories.

99.999999999 (ad infinitum) is exactly equal to 100.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

So far we talk about the God what else we would prove? God is real. I can prove it.

Prove it.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Demonslayer]

If your parents teach you from birth that a dog lizard is god you would believe it at first.

That would be awesome. I may start the dog lizard religion.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

99.999999999 (ad infinitum) is exactly equal to 100.

Ciao

- viole

How it that?

99.9
99.99
99.999
99.9999999999999999
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
etc.

At what point does it become exactly 100? At the [infinity]th "9"? How is this case different than 1/3 = 0.333333333333333(etc., forever)? Does that decimal value also equate to "something else" when the threes are strung out infinitely? Is the equation "1 / [infinity]" truly zero? Truly?

Take a line segment - divide it in two. Take one half, divide that in two. Do this again... and again... and again... forever - do you EVER reach a segment of precisely ZERO length?

 

[viole]

How it that?

99.9
99.99
99.999
99.9999999999999999
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
etc.

At what point does it become exactly 100? At the [infinity]th "9"? How is this case different than 1/3 = 0.333333333333333(etc., forever)? Does that decimal value also equate to "something else" when the threes are strung out infinitely? Is the equation "1 / [infinity]" truly zero? Truly? 0.999999999999999(etc. forever) is exactly "1 - (1 / [infinity])" - now there's a statement I could get behind.

Take a line segment - divide it in two. Take one half, divide that in two. Do this again... and again... and again... forever - do you EVER reach a segment of precisely ZERO length?

You are confusing numbers with sequences, not the same thing.

Now, tell me what 100 - 99.99999999 (ad infinitum) is. Is it bigger than zero?

Ciao

- viole

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You are confusing numbers with sequences, not the same thing.

Now, tell me what 100 - 99.99999999 (ad infinitum) is. Is it bigger than zero?

Ciao

- viole

Of course it is.

 

[viole]

Of course it is.

Now divide it by two. Is the result still bigger than zero?

Ciao

- viole

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Now divide it by two. Is the result still bigger than zero?

Ciao

- viole

You are only PROVING my point - because yes, yes it is. You don't "extend" infinity by multiplying it by 2 - it is still "infinite".

What is infinity to the infinity power? Is it greater than infinity? By your logic (where it seems you feel it possible to reach zero by infinitely dividing by 2, or somehow REACHING infinity itself) it would be. But no... no it isn't.

 

[viole]

You are only PROVING my point - because yes, yes it is. You don't "extend" infinity by multiplying it by 2 - it is still "infinite".

What is infinity to the infinity power? Is it greater than infinity? By your logic getting to zero by infinitely dividing by 2, or somehow REACHING infinity, it would be. But no... no it isn't.

So, you agree that the result of dividing 100 - 99.99999 (ad infinitum) by two is still greater than zero.

Now, is this result smaller than 100 - 99.999999 (ad infinitum) ?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Demonslayer]

I was told there would be no math.

 

[viole]

I was told there would be no math.

Well, that's my job

Ciao

- viole

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

So, you agree that the result of dividing 100 - 99.99999 (ad infinitum) by two is still greater than zero.

Now, is this result smaller than 100 - 99.999999 (ad infinitum) ?

Ciao

- viole

Dividing by two did not change the value of (infinity) - are we agreed there? So, something infinitely small (that is definitively not zero), divided by two is still infinitely small... and definitively not zero. In essence, to be truly infinitely small, no operation of division actually changes the value.

Both results of your above two examples are (literally) infinitesimally small and simultaneously infinitesimally greater than zero. So what is your point?