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Can humanity surprise God?

McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Beaudreaux said:
How so? In other threads, you have claimed that it is not possible for us to do something that God didn't already know we would do?
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You should really pay attention to what it is, EXACTLY, you ask and what it is, EXACTLY, I answer.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2118975-post107.html

You asked if an ALL KNOWING god .......
then you seem to make the assumption that I for an instant think that there is some ALL KNOWING god.
As I have stated numerous times on this forum (and at least once in that thread) I not believe that any deity is all knowing.
 
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Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Mestemia said:
You should really pay attention to what it is, EXACTLY, you ask and what it is, EXACTLY, I answer.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2118975-post107.html

You asked if an ALL KNOWING god .......
then you seem to make the assumption that I for an instant think that there is some ALL KNOWING god.
As I have stated numerous times on this forum (and at least once in that thread) I not believe that any deity is all knowing.
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Oh. Apologies.

How much do you think God knows?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Mestemia said:
No worries mate.


I have no idea.
I would be comfortable with the idea that he knows everything that has happened.
But The Bible fully indicates that God is not knowing the future.
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Actually, the Bible speaks of many instances of God knowing the future. Consider prophecy. Also, the Bible speaks of God as "almighty". How can something be almighty if there is something it cannot do (i.e. Know the future)?
 
Dan4reason

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Beaudreaux said:
Humans are amazing animals with tremendous capacity for creativity and moral excellence. Given our track record here on earth, though, it must be easy for God to expect the worst of us, but do you think that God is ever surprised by the choices some of us make?
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First off, I do not think that God exists so my answer will be based on the assumption that he in fact exists. I will assume the God you are talking about is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. I will also assume that God was the one who created us.

Since God is omniscient, omnipresent, and because of he was the one who made us who we are (including our ability to improve ourselves and change), then it follows that he is not surprised about our actions. Since God knows his future actions assuming that God exists in a universe with time, then he always knew what every human being was going to do and since he did make sure these actions would never happen, he intended these harmful and beneficial human acts to occur.
 
McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Beaudreaux said:
Actually, the Bible speaks of many instances of God knowing the future. Consider prophecy. Also, the Bible speaks of God as "almighty". How can something be almighty if there is something it cannot do (i.e. Know the future)?
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If by prophecy you mean Forer Effect....
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Mestemia said:
If by prophecy you mean Forer Effect....
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So, Jesus was not the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, but merely seen as such because the prophecies of a messiah were general in nature?
 
McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Beaudreaux said:
So, Jesus was not the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, but merely seen as such because the prophecies of a messiah were general in nature?
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I am not impressed by self fulfilling prophecy, prophecy that is so general that any fart in the wind can be said to fulfill it, or prophecies that have been made after the fact.
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Mestemia said:
I am not impressed by self fulfilling prophecy, prophecy that is so general that any fart in the wind can be said to fulfill it, or prophecies that have been made after the fact.
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Old Testament prophecies of the messiah are not self-fulfilling prophecies. And even I as an atheist would not describe Jesus as a "fart in the wind".
 
jonman122

jonman122

Active Member
Beaudreaux said:
Old Testament prophecies of the messiah are not self-fulfilling prophecies. And even I as an atheist would not describe Jesus as a "fart in the wind".
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I'm an Atheist and i would, he fullfilled the exact same prophecies as 30000 other prophets before him, he's nothing special.
 
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