Can humanity surprise God?

[wmjbyatt]

What's the difference?

Prophecy only sees part of the future, omniscience knows EVERYTHING. Prophecy also has a tendency to be fairly vague, omniscience is precise.

 

[Gauss]

maybe thats why the fundamentalist religious types are becoming more open to attacking others, because there are more Atheists doing good in the world now trying to stop the spread of religion from soiling any more of our scientific progress with such things as "creationism" which you seem to endorse.

Well, I do not deny science and I am engineering physicist. What I try to do is to see other dimensions beyond this single one that science can see. Remember that physicists and mathematicians already proved we have a multidimensional universe.

In FG one believes Truth, Compassion, Forbearance is the highest law of the cosmos. Hence, as one follows this law in one´s actions and builds mighty virtue(a white substance that is close aligned to the nature of universe with a high frequency) and eliminates one´s karma(a kind of black low frequency substance opposed to the nature of the cosmos) one will be able to see other dimensions in meditation. Achieving absolute stillness in meditation means you need to cut off all your attachments to worldly matters so you are not interfered with.

In FG cultivation you live as a normal person in the big dye vat of modern society and hence will become stronger than if you isolate yourself as a monk.

It is all about dimensions, the plane of molecules is one heavenly layer as religion puts it. Try going there and see for yourself!

One may have opinions about Gods etc but if one never tries to experience them, how can one know about them??

 

[PolyHedral]

Remember that physicists and mathematicians already proved we have a multidimensional universe.

But not in the way I think you're thinking of. There are the 4 dimensions we're accustomed to, (3 space + 1 time) and that's as far as been proven. Although variants of string theory propose more, ST is both untested and says that the extra dimensions will not be visible to humans. The idea of "alternate universes" is also untested, and possibly isn't testable at all.

 

[Gauss]

But not in the way I think you're thinking of. There are the 4 dimensions we're accustomed to, (3 space + 1 time) and that's as far as been proven. Although variants of string theory propose more, ST is both untested and says that the extra dimensions will not be visible to humans. The idea of "alternate universes" is also untested, and possibly isn't testable at all.

Well, the M-theory predicts 11 dimensions(at the moment), anyway it does not matter how many dimensions they "prove". Any person can relate to molecules, atoms, electrons, nuclei, quarks, neutrinos etc and these particles are proven beyond any doubt. How does it look at the plane of a certain molecular size? It looks like a heavenly layer I believe.

At each more microscopic level, when you can see the plane of that microsocopic dimension you will see that world. There are angels, trees, bushes etc..

Every human being has that inborn ability but he looses it as he grows up and gets postnatal notions, emotions and desires, in addition he generates karma by living.

Only by getting back(exceptional people excluded) to your original state as a newborn with no karma will you be able to see high levels. That is the whole theory and it makes sense too. It will not be proven until judgment day arrives and the maze is broken. Until then we have the chance of all times to rise up fast through the dimensions, faster than ever.

Very few people believe in these things, just because most people are too stubborn and are not willing to listen or try new things. They rely on science since that is an accepted truth and dogma of current society, they can not think or act by themselves anymore and they lost all connection to nature.

I have a saying, what we now believe in is not important, that we keep looking for better and more truthful things to believe in is. Science as we know it is extremely primitive compared to the human brain. Try your own brain and see what happens.

Nothing to loose, everything to win!

 

[PolyHedral]

How does it look at the plane of a certain molecular size? It looks like a heavenly layer I believe.

And these are merely different groupings. There is nothing physical or actual about the idea of a planet. It is a collection of many thousands of substances, covering one or two states of matter, in one case, three. It is only considered a single, monolithic object because we've rolled all of this diversity under one concept. If you wanted to take an absolutely reductionist view of the world, there is only the 11D mass-energy matrix. Everything else is abstractionism.

They rely on science since that is an accepted truth and dogma of current society, they can not think or act by themselves anymore and they lost all connection to nature.

"Dogma" is normally considered incorrect. Which scientific theories are incorrect?

 

[sojourner]

Can humanity surprise God?

No. Not according to today's theology.

 

[YmirGF]

Humans are amazing animals with tremendous capacity for creativity and moral excellence. Given our track record here on earth, though, it must be easy for God to expect the worst of us, but do you think that God is ever surprised by the choices some of us make?

Personally speaking, I think that the surprise element is the entire nature of the game. I cannot, do not and will never accept the notion that a being exists who knows all things, given the host of probable outcomes to an endless myriad of situations. Omniscience is actually a ludicrous idea, imo, developed as a counter-weight to the limited minds of the human animal. Though I use the term loosely, contrary to popular myth, "god" does not know everything and that is why "it" created "us", so that we could flesh out the details in surprising, unexpected ways. In a sense, life is a testament to our resourcefulness or lack thereof.

 

[Beaudreaux]

No. Not according to today's theology.

Are you saying it is impossible for you to do something God did not expect?

 

[sojourner]

Are you saying it is impossible for you to do something God did not expect?

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

God, that must be so incredibly boring, eh?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

God, that must be so incredibly boring, eh?

Indeed - perfect knowledge of the future, especially when combined with immortality, would inevitably result in insanity. Then again, this might help explain a lot about the state of the universe.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Are you saying it is impossible for you to do something God did not expect?

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

So...in any given situation, you are saying that the only thing I can do is what God already knows I will do? I find that hard to believe?

 

[PolyHedral]

in any given situation, you are saying that the only thing I can do is what God already knows I will do? I find that hard to believe?

Follows pretty logically from the premises, though.

 

[sojourner]

So...in any given situation, you are saying that the only thing I can do is what God already knows I will do? I find that hard to believe?

If God is omnipresent and omniscient, then God knows what we will do before it is done. Therefore, nothing surprises God. You may do whatever you wish, but God knows that you will do it.

 

[Beaudreaux]

If God is omnipresent and omniscient, then God knows what we will do before it is done. Therefore, nothing surprises God. You may do whatever you wish, but God knows that you will do it.

I can do whatever I wish? I thought you said it was not possible for me to do anything other than what God knows I will do.

 

[waitasec]

If God is omnipresent and omniscient, then God knows what we will do before it is done. Therefore, nothing surprises God. You may do whatever you wish, but God knows that you will do it.

I can do whatever I wish? I thought you said it was not possible for me to do anything other than what God knows I will do.

see that is the dilemma isn't it?
our free will, it is not pre destined or controlled...
it seems contrived for the believers of such nonsense
that is why the god in their bible is a jealous god, because he cannot control our actions as we try to control our pets

 

[Penumbra]

Humans are amazing animals with tremendous capacity for creativity and moral excellence. Given our track record here on earth, though, it must be easy for God to expect the worst of us, but do you think that God is ever surprised by the choices some of us make?

If there exists a god, it depends on its qualities as to whether it can be surprised.

-What is its relationship to spacetime?
-What is its level of knowledge and consciousness?
-Does it even care about or notice humanity at all?

 

[Thief]

If there exists a god, it depends on its qualities as to whether it can be surprised.

-What is its relationship to spacetime?
-What is its level of knowledge and consciousness?
-Does it even care about or notice humanity at all?

I've been thinking you don't believe in God....as you keep using the word...'if'.
But you ask all the right questions, and you do so as 'if' you do believe.

 

[Beaudreaux]

see that is the dilemma isn't it?
our free will, it is not pre destined or controlled...
it seems contrived for the believers of such nonsense
that is why the god in their bible is a jealous god, because he cannot control our actions as we try to control our pets

So you would say that God CAN be surprised.

 

[Beaudreaux]

If there exists a god, it depends on its qualities as to whether it can be surprised.

-What is its relationship to spacetime?
-What is its level of knowledge and consciousness?
-Does it even care about or notice humanity at all?

Surprise is when something happens that you did not think would happen. As such, there is only one attribute of God that determines whether or not he can be surprised and that is whether or not he knows the future.