Can someone be a Muslim Jew?

[sun rise]

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew" The author examines the story of Moses in both the Quran and Torah seeking to show lack of contradiction: The context of my question is this OpEd from a Reform Rabbi:

Quran And Torah: The Story Of Moses – OpEd

There are some interesting points in that article:

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

His asserts:

We see again that the differences between the Quran and the Torah are the result of different lessons being derived from the same events. These different lessons are not in opposition to one another; they complement and enrich each other.

 

[paarsurrey]

Can someone be a Muslim Jew?

Each and every Muslim is a truthful follower of Moses and Jesus, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

It is possible to be nearly any religion and another religion. What I would stress however is whether you are Muslim Jew or a Jewish Muslim. If you're the former you are a Jew before Muslim, and latter a Muslim before a Jew. There would be conflicts of course, but the distinction between one or other would signify when they disagree who you side with. Another good example of this are the Messianic Jews. Or Christian Jews. They are Jews before Christians. But another term you could call them would be Jewish Christians, the proper term for the first type of Christians that existed; and while Christian Jews are Jewish first, Jewish Christians are Christian first. Confusing yes but that is the correct way English is used. The first word is the adjective to describe the second word, the noun.

Edit: I would describe myself as a pantheistic syntheist and not a syntheistic pantheist. The differences are so small between those descriptions but I consider myself syntheist over pantheist, as I believe change is more important than simply the being. I'm going to update my religion tag to express this.

 

[danieldemol]

Can someone be a Muslim Jew?

Each and every Muslim is a truthful follower of Moses and Jesus, please. Right?

Regards

You aren't really answering the question asked, which is would they still be a Jew at the same time as being a Muslim?

In my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

My take is that it is possible to identify with both, but for example in which direction do they pray? Mecca or Jerusalem?.

Their decision in this and any other contradictory matters would determine whether they lean more towards Judaism or more towards Islam, in other words it looks like a path that would require some syncretism to me.

In my opinion.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

My take is that it is possible to identify with both, but for example in which direction do they pray? Mecca or Jerusalem?.

A Muslim Jew would pray to Jerusalem and a Jewish Muslim would pray to Mecca. I think either way however they would pray to both; the obligatory prayers would be to the religion of the noun and the extra prayers would go towards the adjective religion.

Their decision in this and any other contradictory matters would determine whether they lean more towards Judaism or more towards Islam, in other words it looks like a path that would require some syncretism to me.

Of course.

 

[paarsurrey]

An Israelite need not be a Jew?

"Israelite, descendant of the Hebrew patriarch Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel after an all-night fight at Penuel near the stream of Jabbok (Genesis 32:28). In early history, Israelites were simply members of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. After 930 BCE and the establishment of two independent Hebrew kingdoms in Palestine, the 10 northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites to distinguish them from the southern kingdom of Judah. The northern kingdom was conquered by the Assyrians in 722/721 BCE, and its population was eventually absorbed by other peoples."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Israelite
Understand?

Regards

 

[Brickjectivity]

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew" The author examines the story of Moses in both the Quran and Torah seeking to show lack of contradiction: The context of my question is this OpEd from a Reform Rabbi:

Quran And Torah: The Story Of Moses – OpEd

There are some interesting points in that article:

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

His asserts:

We see again that the differences between the Quran and the Torah are the result of different lessons being derived from the same events. These different lessons are not in opposition to one another; they complement and enrich each other.

Blows my mind that this man is willing to think this way. I am not so trusting. I feel distrust, kind of like the distrust that I feel if some stranger stops me in a parking lot and claims they need some gas money. I guess I have a character flaw, and this fellow has somehow outdone me. How does he invoke so much trust in the other?

Putting aside my personal reaction: Christian scripture has some statements that could be similar. We have a scripture verse that says "Love believes all things, hopes all things and endures all things." How can you believe 'All things' ? I don't know how, but that seems like what this man in your article is talking about. Perhaps he is believing all things.

 

[dybmh]

@sun rise ,

Perhaps it's helpful to list Rambam's 13 principles of faith. I think Islam is not compatible with this list in #9 because Islam claims in the Quran (2:79) that the Torah has been corrupted.

1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.
2. The belief in G‑d's absolute and unparalleled unity.
3. The belief in G‑d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.
4. The belief in G‑d's eternity.
5. The imperative to worship G‑d exclusively and no foreign false gods.
6. The belief that G‑d communicates with man through prophecy.
7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.
8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.
9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.
10. The belief in G‑d's omniscience and providence.
11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.
12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.
13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.

Source - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/332555/jewish/Maimonides-13-Principles-of-Faith.htm​

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but for example in which direction do they pray? Mecca or Jerusalem?

When you are starting, Jerusalem is OK, but once you are there, make it Mecca. Abrogate Jerusalem.

 

[Sabour]

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew"

No one can be a muslim jew because each has different set of beliefs. Example, muslims belief in all the prophets including Jesus and Mohamad peace be upon them.

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

Islam doesnt teach that. Even the verse quoted is not quoted as a whole and rather cut and pasted. Here is the whole verse (5:48)

"We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences."

Quraan teach that (3:19)

"Certainly, Allah’s only Way is Islam.1 Those who were given the Scripture did not dispute ˹among themselves˺ out of mutual envy until knowledge came to them.2 Whoever denies Allah’s signs, then surely Allah is swift in reckoning."

This certainly shows that what is claimed about Islam is not true.


It also teaches (2:256)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood.1 So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing."


Now to explain the below part of the verse (which you didnt wholly quote)

“For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

This part of the verse is talking about the people at different times. For example, people before the Quraan was revealed. Many think that before that time there was no Islam. However, Islam teaches that all the prophets were muslims and they all had the same message to share with their people which is worshiping God and God only. This includes prophets Moses and Jesus. Additionally, Torah and Injeel( which are the original versions without alterations) are two revelations similar to the Quraan which were revealed to prophet Moses and Jesus peace be upon them.

So at Moses (peace be upon him) time, his way was the way for God and the Torah was the Law.
At Jesus (peace be upon him time) his way was the way, and Injeel was the law.
At Mouhammad (peace be upon him) time, his way is the way, and Quraan is the law.


Note that all the ways of these prophets (and the other prophets) is to worship God and God only and that is the essence of Islam.

 

[rosends]

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew" The author examines the story of Moses in both the Quran and Torah seeking to show lack of contradiction: The context of my question is this OpEd from a Reform Rabbi:

Quran And Torah: The Story Of Moses – OpEd

There are some interesting points in that article:

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

His asserts:

We see again that the differences between the Quran and the Torah are the result of different lessons being derived from the same events. These different lessons are not in opposition to one another; they complement and enrich each other.

No, one cannot be both in any meaningful sense. Yes, if a Jew "converts" to Islam, he retains his core identity as a Jew but he isn't part of the Jewish community.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

No, one cannot be both in any meaningful sense. Yes, if a Jew "converts" to Islam, he retains his core identity as a Jew but he isn't part of the Jewish community.

One can and should be able to identify him or herself any way they wish to identify themselves*. This is why when you write your religion there isn't a drop box in your profile section but instead a place to write your identity. Yes, I understand that calling yourself a Muslim Jew or a Jewish Muslim will probably have you removed from both communities, but religion is not strictly a social phenomenon; there are many things about spirituality that reflect more on the individual than a collective. This is why there is the rise of atheist Christians; cultural Christians; like Richard Dawkins. It is possible to be a contradiction as long as it makes sense to you. And in the end isn't that all that matters?

*Edit: I'm referring to religion (or even politics) and nothing else.

 

[rosends]

One can and should be able to identify him or herself any way they wish to identify themselves. This is why when you write your religion there isn't a drop box in your profile section but instead a place to write your identity. Yes, I understand that calling yourself a Muslim Jew or a Jewish Muslim will probably have you removed from both communities, but religion is not strictly a social phenomenon; there are many things about spirituality that reflect more on the individual than a collective. This is why there is the rise of atheist Christians; cultural Christians; like Richard Dawkins. It is possible to be a contradiction as long as it makes sense to you. And in the end isn't that all that matters?

Do you believe that someone born in Russia can arbitrarily call himself an American citizen?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Do you believe that someone born in Russia can arbitrarily call himself an American citizen?

We aren't talking about nationality. We are talking about religion. Don't change the subject.

Edit: My best friend belongs to the Mormon community, inwardly is a Taoist and on his Facebook profile says he is an Omnist. I know and deal with syncretism a lot when I talk with him.

 

[rosends]

We aren't talking about nationality. We are talking about religion. Don't change the subject.

Edit: My best friend belongs to the Mormon community, inwardly is a Taoist and on his Facebook profile says he is an Omnist. I know and deal with syncretism a lot when I talk with him.

If it is Judaism, you are talking about nationality as well. There is no changing the subject. We aren't talking about other religions. Don't change the subject.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

If it is Judaism, you are talking about nationality as well. There is no changing the subject. We aren't talking about other religions. Don't change the subject.

However, if an American converts to Judaism he is not required to also be an Israelite. So your point about a Russian arbitrary calling himself an American is off-topic. I consider Judaism to be a religion and Israelite a nationality.

 

[rosends]

However, if an American converts to Judaism he is not required to also be an Israelite. So your point about a Russian arbitrary calling himself an American is off-topic. I consider Judaism to be a religion and Israelite a nationality.

Who said anything about "Israelite"? I don't even know what that is. The issue is "Jew" and someone who decides he is a Jew isn't, same as someone who decides he is an American. What you consider about Judaism is immaterial. Judaism considers itself to be a religion and a nationality.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Who said anything about "Israelite"? I don't even know what that is. The issue is "Jew" and someone who decides he is a Jew isn't, same as someone who decides he is an American. What you consider about Judaism is immaterial. Judaism considers itself to be a religion and a nationality.

I looked it up and yes, you have a point. I guess there could be an exception for Judaism, and this topic originated from the concept of Muslim Jews or Muslim Judaism. I was wrong to call it Israelite; the proper term from someone in Israel is Israeli, and I got both confused. However the case may be, a nation usually has borders, whereas a religion does not. While you are technically right I consider it confusing to consider Judaism as someone's nationality because nationality usually refers to someone's place rather than belief. This is how I distinct from Jews and Israelis. Israel is the state of Judaism, Judaism is the religion and ethnicity of the Jewish population. We could argue this and yes I understand your point very clearly, however, for me calling Judaism a nation is like calling Christianity a nation, or calling Islam a nation. It doesn't make sense to me. In the same case, I could be American also anti-American at the same time. If my belief is anti-American it doesn't stop me from being American if I was born and raised here. If I was anti-semitic and a Jew, well ... that wouldn't make any sense would it. And neither does Muslim Jews, so you do have a very valid point there.

 

[rosends]

If I was anti-semitic and a Jew, well ... that wouldn't make any sense would it..

Just as a side note, the instance of Jews being anti-Semitic is so present that there is a specific term for it

Self-hating Jew - Wikipedia