Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[sojourner]

because no one has explained how God's power or life force or spirit can be a separate "person". say there is a plumber who has a tool that can unclog drains. when he uses that tool you would not say there were two persons, there was one person with a skill or power or tool. God's spirit is a power or "tool" He can use to do tasks but is not a separate person. what makes this a false idea? because you do not get it or believe it?

It's a "false idea" because it's incongruent both with the biblical portrayal of the H.S. and with the concept of "person" for purposes of the doctrine. The Spirit is often referenced in the texts in conjunction with a personal pronoun, indicating that it is some sort of sentient entity.

 

[outhouse]

because no one has explained how God's power or life force or spirit can be a separate "person".

To say a god could not have his spirit, would mean you have a weak god that cannot do what ever it wishes. You cannot believe in the concept then limit what it can or cannot do.


I know where your coming from, its the seed that started my atheism. But none the less it is how the concept is theologically defined in Christianity.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

the Holy Spirit is often referred to using the pronoun "he" but I thought the Bible was written by humans who did not know what they were doing. by the time translations were made to english the idea of the trinity had already been decided by the church so the men doing the translating used "he" when they probably could have used "it" instead. no one is saying God cannot have a spirit. in fact the Bible say God IS a spirit. the problem is in saying this spirit is somehow a separate "person"
it is a false idea because it is incongruent with the Bible but you say the Bible was written by men and cannot be believed. you are trying to have it both ways

 

[outhouse]

the Bible was written by men and cannot be believed. you are trying to have it both ways

No I'm not. My way is it is all man made mythology. Man and only man defined it all, so none of it really exist IMHO.

Your arguing against the status quo, and I'm simply pointing out the status quo.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

sadly, I do not think someone who does not believe should be trying to convince others who do believe that they are wrong. I will never try to convince someone who does not believe that they should believe. and if you do not believe then you should not try to pick apart specific beliefs of others. if you do not "believe in" the Bible then do not tell others who do believe that they are wrong. just say you do not agree.

 

[moorea944]

There is no "right" or "wrong." The Trinity is a) valid, both biblically and theologically (even though the term, itself, is not present therein), and b) the orthodox stance.

The Trinity isn't about "multiple gods." It's a way to describe the one God.

That's what the Trinity says: God is One God.

That's not exactly a fair comparison to make, because a) Moses didn't write any of the Pentateuch, and b) the viewpoint at that time was henotheism -- not monotheism, so "Moses'" perspective of the "oneness" of God would have been completely different from ours in the best case.

No, they don't say that at all. The doctrine of the Trinity says that God is One. Unequivocally.

1+1+1=3, not 1

 

[outhouse]

if you do not "believe in" the Bible then do not tell others who do believe that they are wrong. just say you do not agree.

Please don't take it the wrong way brother.

Its not about believing in the bible, its about understanding it.

 

[outhouse]

1+1+1=3, not 1

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 no?

 

[outhouse]

, I do not think someone who does not believe should be trying to convince others who do believe that they are wrong.

I don't want you to change your belief in any way shape or form.

Your way was found not the way the church wanted to go 1700 years ago. And when I was a theist I had the same views as you.

 

[moorea944]

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 no?

It's amazing how many people try their hardest to make God into a trinity. Unbelievable!!! lol Too funny...

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

no offense taken, outhouse. I still value your views

 

[outhouse]

It's amazing how many people try their hardest to make God into a trinity. Unbelievable!!! lol Too funny...

Im not even trying.

Just showing how easy your math can be refuted with math.

You can deny the dogma all day long I do. Heck you deny just the father is two gods compiled together, so its a bit hypocritical is it not?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

it all goes back to the idea that God is a family. you can have one Jones family with 3 or 4 or more members. you can also have one God "family" with more than one member. it is still one God but made up of more than one member just like the one Jones family can be made up of several members. if the Jones family has four members you can say there is one Jones family but there are four Joneses. the one God is made up of more than one member who can all be called Gods

 

[outhouse]

it all goes back to the idea that God is a family.

You mean god was part of a family.

El was the father god of all deities in Israelite cultures. Yahweh and Baal were sons. Asherah first married to El, then later attributed as Yahweh's wife.

Early Israelite cultures worshipped a family of gods. Even though monotheism was instituted through a political move after 622 BC, monotheism was not accepted by Israelites until roughly 200-400BC

Man was made in our image was not "royal we" it is a left over of the true polytheistic past of Israelites

 

[sojourner]

the Holy Spirit is often referred to using the pronoun "he" but I thought the Bible was written by humans who did not know what they were doing

If that's what you believe, why do you then insist that the bible be the ground of faith?

by the time translations were made to english the idea of the trinity had already been decided by the church so the men doing the translating used "he" when they probably could have used "it" instead.

That's not how the translation process works. You're confusing apologetics with translation.

the problem is in saying this spirit is somehow a separate "person"

I don't see that as a problem, particularly.

it is a false idea because it is incongruent with the Bible

No it's not. that's precisely why it became the orthodox view.

you say the Bible was written by men and cannot be believed.

Well, who else would have written it??? No ones saying "we can't believe the bible." We are saying that the bible isn't infallible.

 

[sojourner]

1+1+1=3, not 1

This is theology, not mathematics.

 

[sojourner]

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 no?

No. The Father isn't 1/3 God; the Father is fully God, so the "1/3" thing doesn't really work.

 

[sojourner]

It's amazing how many people try their hardest to make God into a trinity. Unbelievable!!! lol Too funny...

I don't think people have to "try hard" to do that. I certainly don't "try hard" to do that.

 

[sojourner]

it all goes back to the idea that God is a family. you can have one Jones family with 3 or 4 or more members. you can also have one God "family" with more than one member. it is still one God but made up of more than one member just like the one Jones family can be made up of several members. if the Jones family has four members you can say there is one Jones family but there are four Joneses. the one God is made up of more than one member who can all be called Gods

That was a solid description of the Trinity until the last sentence.

 

[outhouse]

No. The Father isn't 1/3 God; the Father is fully God, so the "1/3" thing doesn't really work.

Understood, theologically a 1/3 does not apply, but the answer is "yes" as the math is correct

Just posted it as response to the other wrong math lol