Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Yes]

That is precisely what Jesus said. What exactly isn't cataway getting?

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 14:9

Exactly.

 

[Yes]

God didnt become a man. By saying God became a man and brought Himself down to our level, totally degrades our Creator. The bible DOES NOT tell us that God changed into a man. God does not change. He had a son thru the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not give glory to himself. He did not pray to himself. Something to think about, eh?

There are three, and the three are One and the same.

 

[Yes]

I never said Jesus was a mere man. Never. He was begotten by God by the Holy Spirit. God was his Father. That is not a mere man. And I never said that he became God. That would be false doctrine. Plus, why would God want to become a man? He had Jesus and the angels doing his work on earth.

Jesus says and does EXACTLY as the Father says and does, but you say Jesus is not God!

See John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50; John 14:10.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

See John 8:19; 14:7, 9; Hebrews 1:3; and, Colossians 1:15.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

Their works are NOT different.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.

 

[Yes]

Trinitarian does not teach trinity as different or separate from each other.

Your mere denial means nothing.

Go read what BadDog says.

The trinity doctrines says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE DISTINCT and SEPARTE.

Distinct means different.

However, God the Father and Jesus Christ are not separate and distinct.

They are the same.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus says and does EXACTLY as the Father says and does, but you say Jesus is not God!

See John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50; John 14:10.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

See John 8:19; 14:7, 9; Hebrews 1:3; and, Colossians 1:15.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

Their works are NOT different.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.

[Jesus says and does EXACTLY as the Father says and does, but you say Jesus is not God!]
Absolutely!!! He was there to do his Father's will. They were in synce together in purpose and will.

[When we see Jesus, we see the Father.]
Yes, right again. I totally agree with that. God is working "through" His son. They were the same in purpose.

[Their works are NOT different.]
I agree with you 100%! Jesus was sent into the world to do his Father's will and work.

Are you exactly the same as your father? Are YOU your father? No, of course not. But you've been told that in your church that Jesus is God.

 

[Yes]

Yahweh never became a man and came to earth. It's called God manifestation. God revealing Himself or working through people. Jesus, prophets, angels, etc. Angels represent God and bare His name. An angel can also speak for God as if God was speaking through the angel.

Same with Gen 18. God manifestation right there. Three angels appearing as three men. That's all. They are representing God on His behave. Three of God's angels.

Jesus is no mere man with a manifestation from God.

Jesus is not like the other Prophets in the Old Testament whom God spoke through.

 

[JM2C]

Your mere denial means nothing.


Go read what BadDog says.


The trinity doctrines says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE DISTINCT and SEPARTE.


Distinct means different.


However, God the Father and Jesus Christ are not separate and distinct.


They are the same.

I said Trinitarian does not teach trinity as different or separate from each other from “If they are different, and separate, as the trinitarians teach, then that makes a three headed god.”

 

[Yes]

[Jesus says and does EXACTLY as the Father says and does, but you say Jesus is not God!]
Absolutely!!! He was there to do his Father's will. They were in synce together in purpose and will.

[When we see Jesus, we see the Father.]
Yes, right again. I totally agree with that. God is working "through" His son. They were the same in purpose.

Since JESUS SAYS when you see him you have seen the Father...why then do you go against me for saying Jesus is God?

Jesus CALLS HIMSELF the EXACT SAME name as God calls Himself. So then, why do you go against me when I call Jesus God?

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as
though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?

[Their works are NOT different.]
I agree with you 100%! Jesus was sent into the world to do his Father's will and work.

Are you exactly the same as your father? Are YOU your father? No, of course not. But you've been told that in your church that Jesus is God.

I AM NOT EXACTLY LIKE MY FATHER.

However, Jesus IS EXACTLY like his Father!

 

[Yes]

I said Trinitarian does not teach trinity as different or separate from each other from “If they are different, and separate, as the trinitarians teach, then that makes a three headed god.”

I know what you said, and you are wrong.

Trinitarians DO teach they are different and separate.

 

[JM2C]

I know what you said, and you are wrong.

Trinitarians DO teach they are different and separate.

We have a oneness theology here.
So, you did not understand the meaning of
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah" the word “Elohim” being plural shows that God the Lord, is more than one, yet is "ONE Jehovah". Echad: a united ONE, and not Yachid: an only one.

And

Ex 20:3 “You shall have no other/different/heteros gods before me.

 

[JM2C]

Jesus is no mere man with a manifestation from God.
Jesus is not like the other Prophets in the Old Testament whom God spoke through.

Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!

 

[sojourner]

The Persons are distinct from one another, yet share the same nature. Think of "God-Expressed-As-Community."

 

[Yes]

We have a oneness theology here.
So, you did not understand the meaning of
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah" the word “Elohim” being plural shows that God the Lord, is more than one, yet is "ONE Jehovah". Echad: a united ONE, and not Yachid: an only one.

And

Ex 20:3 “You shall have no other/different/heteros gods before me.

How long have I been explaining it to you and you still don't understand?

You are a trinitarian and as a trinitarian, you say there are three different gods which equal One God.

However, that make a three-headed god.

There are three, but the three are One and the same.

 

[Yes]

Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!

I have no idea what you think you have disproved with those scriptures.

 

[Yes]

The Persons are distinct from one another, yet share the same nature. Think of "God-Expressed-As-Community."

No way is Jesus distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is not separate, and distinct (which means different) from the Father.

God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are exactly the same.

 

[BadDog]

If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Father, because there is ONLY ONE GOD and He is the Father.

I am not a modalist, because modalism says there are three but that the three do not exist at the same time.

I know the three exist at the same time.

There are three, and the three are One and the same.

If they are different, and separate, as the trinitarians teach, then that makes a three headed god.

Modalism is the teaching that there is one God in essence (with which trinitarians agree) and only one Person as well (where trinitarians depart) - but that this one God appears in various forms or modes. Modalism does not say that there are three Gods. It teaches that there is one God, but three forms or modes.

Again, modalism holds that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, God revealed Himself as the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it does retain the divinity of Christ.

Present-day groups that hold to modalism are the United Pentecostal Churches and United Apostolic Churches. So you are right in saying that if you do not hold to the three existing at the same time, that is not, strictly speaking, modalism. I apologize for this. But just FYI my point is that John 1:1 could not have included an article before QEOS ("God") because that would have led to an error... essentially a form of modalism in that it would make it only one person in the godhead. IMO that means that John could not have placed an article before QEOS.

Thx,

BD

 

[sojourner]

No way is Jesus distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is not separate, and distinct (which means different) from the Father.

God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are exactly the same.

Read. The. Doctrine.

 

[Yes]

Read. The. Doctrine.

I have.

 

[Yes]

Modalism is the teaching that there is one God in essence (with which trinitarians agree) and only one Person as well (where trinitarians depart) - but that this one God appears in various forms or modes. Modalism does not say that there are three Gods. It teaches that there is one God, but three forms or modes.

You just contradicted yourself. Modalism does say that that there are three. They teach that the three do not exist at the same time.

Again, modalism holds that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms.

Right there, you said it...modalists believe that there are three.

Just try to listen to what I have been saying.

Modalists believe there are three, just as you admitted. So then, why did you say they did not believe there were three?

They believe that there are three, but they do not believe the three exist at the same time.

I do not believe like that.

 

[sojourner]

I have.

Apparently not well. Here's what Wikipedia says:

"'The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit' are not names for different parts of God, but one name for God[54] because three persons exist in God as one entity.[55] They cannot be separate from one another. Each person is understood as having the identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures. Three distinct Persons. They are not interchangeable. This diagram may help: