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Can the dead be contacted according to your tradition?

Can the dead be contacted according to your tradition?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 18 50.0%

  • Total voters
    36

meghanwaterlillies

Well-Known Member
All fairness it's not because of tradition it's just that I watched spiritualized art become an emotional fuel to trick people. Even supposed talkers to the dead convince someone readily that they are contacted or other wise and they go and even attack, gossip, emotionally gyp you from reality. I have seen them attack people even kill over their supposed "info" or contact because someone told them something.
Other people just like to see someone get emotional strung out. They like to see them cry or something. Knowing that sometimes they have enough info to tell them something like they would ask for info on you before hand when you go to a magic show. The problem information technology is that spiritualist can make themselves out to be something more than what they are,
I forget the Indian tribe that noted that at one point the pilgrims lost a lot to superstitions even amongst themselves. While some were the same ones pretending as those attacking. (like double gossip) Some lost it and were convinced of it.
 

Mercurio

Member
Contacting those who have left their bodies behind for the spirit world from which they came is a big part of my practices.

Just curious if it is allowed, forbidden, or impossible for you according to your tradition to contact the dead.
I have talked to what most people would call dead people. Most of the time, they contacted me -- it wasn't me going off looking to try to find them.

Different people here have said different things; and I think some people are quoting the Bible without understanding it.

The dead know nothing? They base that on:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

But there are people walking around in living bodies are can also be called dead. As Jesus put it, Let the dead bury the dead.

If the "dead" are not awake spiritually at the point the physical body dies, they will likely go to what some call sheol or hell. They are "dead" spiritually and unaware of what they are, of what spirit is, and of what God is. Thus it is also said:

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

In most cases, it's true that souls in one of the hells (and there are several, I'd say) are so engrossed in by one thing or another, they can perform the same action again and again without taking thought. I would hesitate to describe some of the worst section of hell I have seen.

It is forbidden by my ethical standard to try to contact such souls for the purpose of trying to discern the future or for financial gain and the like. It is certainly okay however to communicate with them for benevolent purposes if there is a chance of helping them. Indeed, when we pray for the dead, angels often go to that section known as Gehinnom or Purgatory to rescue souls.

I don't expect many to believe me; but the book of Jonah says he was in sheol or hell. People can continue to read that to mean he was in a physical fish if they wish; but that's a metaphor. Jonah did remember "God" when he went to sheol.

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

If there is never any knowing anything in sheol, how could Jonah have invoked the LORD?

I.e. Jonah was not "dead" when he went there. Neither was Jesus when he visited hell and preached. Compare the two. Jesus said we should.

It is perfectly fine for Catholics to talk to the saints. They are not dead! One is not invoking the dead by talking with them. It is not necromancy. I've talked to a few of them myself although I am not a Catholic. Other religions also have "dead" people you can talk to without the least peril -- I have met some of those also. And I've met a few people from the Old Testament. None of these people should be called "dead."

One of my aunts showed up one night. She looked lovely. So beautiful. I said naively, "I thought you were dead." She laughed -- and it was her laugh too -- I've never met anyone who laughed the way she did. She said, "I suppose some people would call it that." Our meeting didn't last long though since there were others about and she didn't want to disturb them.

I have tried to contact "the dead" once or twice. Once was out of idle curiosity, and I got the message back loud and clear that the person wanted to be left alone. She had incarnated again and didn't want to be looking back.

That reminds me when I was a child of about four or five, someone came looking for me. The spirit looking for me was seeing me as "someone else" -- it confused me at the time. For a while, I thought maybe I wasn't my parents' child or something. Later I learned my wife from my past lifetime had gotten someone to try to find me. I had in fact been the person the medium was looking for but I wasn't that person anymore. That wife did visit me at times though after that. She would play tricks at times to get my attention; and that was fine. Once I changed bedrooms with someone living with me; and my "wife" showed up in the bedroom I'd left. It alarmed the woman there.

But believe what you want. You can't know until you see for yourself. I don't expect people to believe me.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
The "spirits" contacted are not the dearly departed but demonic spirits who impersonate the dead.

The Bible forbids any contact with such spirits or any practice associated with them.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12:
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."

There is no ambiguity in this passage.




SORRY FOR MY UNEDITED ORIGINAL POST, IT WAS MESSY!


I am a Christian and a theologian. When I began collage I was hoping to earn a major in near east archeology and cultural anthropology than the clergy contemporary theology'. It was not until the last years of school that I switched from the science major to one involving metaphysics. I mentioned that because even today I have some major issues with the traditional Christian religion**. Also, I shared my historical information to provide the reason that I believe as I do, which on first glance would not appear 'Christian'. So here goes; According to our bible and related books and material good and bad spirits exist and are assessable. Some of these spirits are called demons and angles. Lets not forget Jesus. In the old testament the supernatural manifestations communicate from their realm to our realm by dreams visions and other things that go bump in the night. So yes Christians are allowed to contact most of those that have left this world and now exist as spirits. However, as per the bible I would urge caution and gain as much knowledge as possible before attempting any type of contact with the dead! Lastly I would ask all Christians to avoid all types demonic activities, witchcraft etc mentioned in the bible.
 
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Mercurio

Member
The "spirits" contacted are not the dearly departed but demonic spirits who impersonate the dead.
How many demons have you met? I suspect probably none, so how could you know this? This is just your belief. Unless you've met angels and demons and can tell the difference, I wouldn't opine about such matters.

The Bible forbids any contact with such spirits or any practice associated with them.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12:
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."

There is no ambiguity in this passage.
I'd say you introduced some ambiguity into it by making it into something it isn't.

Was Jesus wrong to tell Lazarus to come forth? Was he wrong to go preach to the spirits in prison? I don't suggest most people try that; but I wouldn't make a blanket generalization as you made.

What definitely is forbidden is trying to use the dead to predict the future. That is a horrible thing since it undermines our free will.
 

Mercurio

Member
"PopeADope",

Namaste,

.

I would say it is impossible because of Atman & re-birth concepts, which postulate a re-cycling or a cyclic rebirth of the Atman, the Atman is not a person or spirit, nor is it tied down to one life.

Although there could be some Hindus who believe that we can contact the dead, but i doubt that it is a widely believed or practiced phenomenon.

Dhanyavad
Hinduism subscribes to the idea of various levels of existence, does it not? The soul need not reincarnate again at once on this plane. Some could be called levels of heaven and others of hell. Sorry I can't copy and paste from this site.

Death and Afterlife in Hinduism

The question is if souls on these levels could communicate with us on our level. Another question is if a soul can be on more than one plane at the same time -- I think the answer there is yes.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In Hinduism we try to get the soul to move on to it's next physical birth. So we do the opposite of trying to contact them. It's 'Move along now," In the rare instance, though, its more personal, and that soul wants in to a 'survivors' family. In that particular instance, its more 'Welcome back!"
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
Do you consider that your belief about "dead" people who aren't actually "dead" people is TRUE?

Or is just some hypothesis you are playing around with?
I consider it true based on visions, coincidence, experiences, and dreams I've received, but I'm aware that such things aren't proof and really aren't helpful so far to any one other than myself, so it is very real and helpful to me but sadly isn't something I'm able to use much to help others. I'm unfortunately not receiving anything I can use as evidence to prove anything to anyone, which is frustrating.

Your question is do I consider it to be true. Yes I do. Scripture and Catholic tradition states that we are all one body in Christ, branches of the true vine that is Christ. Therefore, we are all connected. When someone dies they do not cease to be a member of the body of Christ, so we are connected with them and the same God that lives in us lives in them, so we can connect through the spirit that connects us.
 

neologist

Member
If you base your belief on the scriptures, as many claim, you must deal with Solomon's words at Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6:
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
If there were any conditions placed on Adam and Eve other than a return to the dust from which they were created, do you not think God would have told them at first?
 

arthra

Baha'i
Contacting those who have left their bodies behind for the spirit world from which they came is a big part of my practices.

Just curious if it is allowed, forbidden, or impossible for you according to your tradition to contact the

Bahá'ís believe the soul/spirit continues after death... and that among souls that are close in this life some form of communication is possible however we do not use Mediums or believe in spiritualism as it's commonly understood...
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
"Mercurio"

Namaste,

Hinduism subscribes to the idea of various levels of existence, does it not?

Some Hindu Traditions do, yes. But not all

The soul need not reincarnate again at once on this plane. Some could be called levels of heaven and others of hell. Sorry I can't copy and paste from this site.

I don't know about the Soul, as that is a different concept then Atman and Jiva. But the Jiva/Atman will always reincarnate as even the ideas of Hindu hell and heaven (if you read the site) are of hellish and Heavenly Planets which are not eternal, the Jiva return to earth. And there is no mention of contacting the dead.

The question is if souls on these levels could communicate with us on our level.

I dont know :shrug:

Another question is if a soul can be on more than one plane at the same time -- I think the answer there is yes.

Could be, but the site itself does not mention anything about "Souls", communicating or that we are able to communicate with the dead.

Dhanyavad
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I consider it true based on visions, coincidence, experiences, and dreams I've received, but I'm aware that such things aren't proof and really aren't helpful so far to any one other than myself, so it is very real and helpful to me but sadly isn't something I'm able to use much to help others. I'm unfortunately not receiving anything I can use as evidence to prove anything to anyone, which is frustrating.

Your question is do I consider it to be true. Yes I do. Scripture and Catholic tradition states that we are all one body in Christ, branches of the true vine that is Christ. Therefore, we are all connected. When someone dies they do not cease to be a member of the body of Christ, so we are connected with them and the same God that lives in us lives in them, so we can connect through the spirit that connects us.

That's beautiful.

By the way, you have millions of people who believe what you do when it comes to experiencing spirits in dreams, visions, experiences, and so forth.

A lot of religions defined by culture and traditions have a relation with spirits of some sort. Catholicism is no exclusion.

I just think that people disregard it since Christianity is one of the world's most "popular" religion and many native religions were and are colonized by Christianity. So there are a lot of inbred religions that share similar views.

I just think that many protestants who don't share that view are probably what I can count on one hand. They have a loud voice but not in people
 

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Daisies4me

Active Member
The body dies, but the soul does not. The "dead people" are those whose bodies are in the grave. They are all judged by Christ after physical death, and if they are saved, they go to heaven, some directly, and some by way of purgatory. The others go to hell.

Every angel and every human soul in heaven is a saint, meaning that they are holy.
[/QUOTE]
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I have talked to what most people would call dead people. Most of the time, they contacted me -- it wasn't me going off looking to try to find them.

Different people here have said different things; and I think some people are quoting the Bible without understanding it.

The dead know nothing? They base that on:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

But there are people walking around in living bodies are can also be called dead. As Jesus put it, Let the dead bury the dead.

If the "dead" are not awake spiritually at the point the physical body dies, they will likely go to what some call sheol or hell. They are "dead" spiritually and unaware of what they are, of what spirit is, and of what God is. Thus it is also said:

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

In most cases, it's true that souls in one of the hells (and there are several, I'd say) are so engrossed in by one thing or another, they can perform the same action again and again without taking thought. I would hesitate to describe some of the worst section of hell I have seen.

It is forbidden by my ethical standard to try to contact such souls for the purpose of trying to discern the future or for financial gain and the like. It is certainly okay however to communicate with them for benevolent purposes if there is a chance of helping them. Indeed, when we pray for the dead, angels often go to that section known as Gehinnom or Purgatory to rescue souls.

I don't expect many to believe me; but the book of Jonah says he was in sheol or hell. People can continue to read that to mean he was in a physical fish if they wish; but that's a metaphor. Jonah did remember "God" when he went to sheol.

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

If there is never any knowing anything in sheol, how could Jonah have invoked the LORD?

I.e. Jonah was not "dead" when he went there. Neither was Jesus when he visited hell and preached. Compare the two. Jesus said we should.

It is perfectly fine for Catholics to talk to the saints. They are not dead! One is not invoking the dead by talking with them. It is not necromancy. I've talked to a few of them myself although I am not a Catholic. Other religions also have "dead" people you can talk to without the least peril -- I have met some of those also. And I've met a few people from the Old Testament. None of these people should be called "dead."

One of my aunts showed up one night. She looked lovely. So beautiful. I said naively, "I thought you were dead." She laughed -- and it was her laugh too -- I've never met anyone who laughed the way she did. She said, "I suppose some people would call it that." Our meeting didn't last long though since there were others about and she didn't want to disturb them.

I have tried to contact "the dead" once or twice. Once was out of idle curiosity, and I got the message back loud and clear that the person wanted to be left alone. She had incarnated again and didn't want to be looking back.

That reminds me when I was a child of about four or five, someone came looking for me. The spirit looking for me was seeing me as "someone else" -- it confused me at the time. For a while, I thought maybe I wasn't my parents' child or something. Later I learned my wife from my past lifetime had gotten someone to try to find me. I had in fact been the person the medium was looking for but I wasn't that person anymore. That wife did visit me at times though after that. She would play tricks at times to get my attention; and that was fine. Once I changed bedrooms with someone living with me; and my "wife" showed up in the bedroom I'd left. It alarmed the woman there.

But believe what you want. You can't know until you see for yourself. I don't expect people to believe me.
Thank you for this. I believe you. Have you read Allan Kardec's "The Spirit's book"?

I'd really recommend it.

That's cool that you have communicated with all those Historical figures.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
The "spirits" contacted are not the dearly departed but demonic spirits who impersonate the dead.

The Bible forbids any contact with such spirits or any practice associated with them.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12:
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."

There is no ambiguity in this passage.
You're going by the Old Testament which contains many commandments I'm sure you don't follow. The Old Testament also commanded people to be stoned to death for working on the wrong day of the week. Since you don't follow the Old Testament anyway, it ruins some of your credibility when quoting it to say something is forbidden. We have a New Covenant. The Old Covenant never was for Gentiles. Jesus never once condemned communication with the souls in heaven. Some of what was forbidden at that OT time was later permitted.

Jesus was communicating with Moses and Elijah on Mount Tabor during the transfiguration. If it is sinful to communicate with the dead, tell Jesus to stop communicating with them :D
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law and the prophets ( Old Testament ). So it is hard to believe we should ignore the Old restament.
 

Mercurio

Member
If you base your belief on the scriptures, as many claim, you must deal with Solomon's words at Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6: If there were any conditions placed on Adam and Eve other than a return to the dust from which they were created, do you not think God would have told them at first?
It seems as if you interpret that passage to deny the resurrection. Tour interpretation would mean the dead are dead and will never have any reward. That can't be right since other Scriptures teach otherwise. We should not follow the tradition of the Sadducees who taught when you're dead, you're dead. One must have the correct tradition in order to interpret the Scriptures correctly.

Other conditions placed on Adam and Eve? Yes, they were to be fruitful and multiply. Some Jews teach that Eve was reincarnated as Rebekkah and Adam as Jacob -- and Cain as Esau. If you read the story with that in mind, you may be able to see how some karma got corrected.

Part of Adam and Eve "died" as soon as the Divine Light went out in them. They had been clothed in Light. This meant their bodies and souls (part of the soul) were mortal. But part of them was not mortal.

You most likely would also interpret this to mean when you're dead, you're dead:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


Man is like the beast of the field. . . in one way. He is unlike the beast in another. But Solomon goes on. Who knows if the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of the beast goes down? Who knows? The person who knows this does good deeds. The person who does not know this is indifferent.

We should not believe that the image and likeness of God given to Adam and Eve could return to dust, nor should we think that the breath of life given to them, breathed into them by God, could return to dust. The physical body returns to dust; and part of the soul is also subject to becoming trapped in the dust. Know this and then lead a good life, enjoying what you can and doing good deeds.

I can give my understanding of this passage -- but I'd like yours as well.

1 Kings 22:22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.


My reading of this is that this lying spirit was Naboth who had lost his vineyard and been put to death because Ahab wanted the vineyard and Jezebel hatched a plot that had people lying to get it for him. Was it not karma then that Naboth act as a lying spirit to deceive Ahab? If it was Naboth, we see that the "dead" can communicate with the "living."
 

Mercurio

Member
Thank you for this. I believe you. Have you read Allan Kardec's "The Spirit's book"?

I'd really recommend it.

That's cool that you have communicated with all those Historical figures.
Thanks, I haven't heard of that book. A book that might interest you is a biography of William Blake, The Stranger from Paradise. I loved it. Blake talked to all kinds of people, including Voltaire and Michelangelo.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
You're going by the Old Testament which contains many commandments I'm sure you don't follow. The Old Testament also commanded people to be stoned to death for working on the wrong day of the week. Since you don't follow the Old Testament anyway, it ruins some of your credibility when quoting it to say something is forbidden.

Can you tell me what religion Jesus was? Can you then tell me what scriptures he quoted from when he said "it is written"?
Jesus did not come to destroy the law....he said he came to fulfill it.

The condition of the dead was never part of the Law. It was a belief that all Jews held, that the dead were in Sheol. Sheol in Hebrew is the equivalent of the Greek "hades".....so what is "hades"? I can tell you now, it is not "gehenna" and it is not Christendom's "hell". Sheol is nothing more than the common grave....we all go there. Jesus went there. The dead are not conscious, but "sleeping" in their graves, awaiting Jesus' call to "come out". (John 5:28-29)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17:
"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. 15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever." (NRSVCE)

This Catholic version renders this passage in a way that is not very accurate. You will notice that in the first verse it says..."we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died"

They have rendered the word "koimaō" here as "died" when it literally means to "sleep".

Genesis Chapter 1 (NASB)

Whereas the word "apothnēskō" means to die and is used in the next verse....."we believe that Jesus died and rose again".

Genesis Chapter 1 (NASB)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G599&t=NASB
The dead "sleep" as Jesus said of of his friend Lazarus.....

John 11:11-14:
"After saying this, he told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will be all right.” 13 Jesus, however, had been speaking about his death, but they thought that he was referring merely to sleep. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead." (NRSVCE)

In this verse they have correctly translated "koimaō" as "fallen asleep" so it confirms that they mean the same thing. Death is merely a sleep, not the continuation of life in another form in another realm. Where did Jesus call Lazarus from?
No one went to heaven before Jesus. If Lazarus had gone to a better place, why would Jesus bring him back to this life, only for him to die again?

We have a New Covenant. The Old Covenant never was for Gentiles. Jesus never once condemned communication with the souls in heaven. Some of what was forbidden at that OT time was later permitted.

Please supply chapter and verse so that we can confirm this. There are no "souls" in heaven. Do you know what the Bible's definition of a "soul" is? It is not what Christendom teaches. The soul (Hebrew neʹphesh, Greek psy·kheʹ) is a living breathing creature, it never means an immaterial or disembodied spirit.

The only personage we are permitted to speak to in heaven is the Father. We are to direct all our prayers to "Our Father who is in heaven" and we are to ask his favor or to grant our petitions, "in Jesus' name". Jesus said that he was "the way, the truth and the life" and that no one could "come to the Father except through him". Nowhere are we told to pray to Jesus or to Mary or the saints.....only to the Father.

Jesus was communicating with Moses and Elijah on Mount Tabor during the transfiguration. If it is sinful to communicate with the dead, tell Jesus to stop communicating with them :D

The transfiguration, Jesus said was a vision, (Matthew 17:9) it was not an actual physical manifestation of Moses and Elijah.
Just before the transfiguration, Jesus said....
Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom" (Matthew 16:28) Shortly thereafter, he fulfilled that promise by permitting Peter, James and John to see him in his kingdom glory. Moses represented the Law, and Elijah represented the Prophets, both of which pointed to Jesus as King of God's kingdom.

 
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