Can the US afford socialized medicine?

[Smoke]

We could balance the budget AND pay for public health care by simply cutting the DOD budget in half.

There, fixed it.
Where`s my cookie?

Where's the politician with the balls to do it?

 

[linwood]

Where's the politician with the balls to do it?

Do I have to do EVERYTHING??

 

[Reverend Rick]

[youtube]7YUuyzQDmjY[/youtube]
YouTube - AC/DC - Big Balls

 

[linwood]

Thanks for that Rick.

It`s been a long time since I`ve heard that.

 

[dawny0826]

Ah, you were taken in by the whole "only half of Americans are paying taxes" thing. That's because half of Americans make less than $50,000, and a quarter of Americans make less than $20,000. It's the other half that has all the money, and so they'll be the ones to pay the taxes. Taxes still get paid, just by the people who can actually afford to pay them. Think of it like this: There is, let's say, $12 trillion being made every year by Americans. $1 trillion of that is made by 50% of the country, while the other 50% makes the other $11 trillion. So, if only that second 50% pays the taxes, that's all you need. If we got it to the point of that first 50% making $4 trillion out of 12, then part of that lower 50% would be paying taxes.

If we instituted a truly "socialized" system, depending on how much you make, you might save money considering you wouldn't have your health insurance premium anymore. That is, unless you're making a good salary, like over $100,000. If you make $30,000 and don't have kids or other dependents, you're not going to be the one paying for it.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not at all sold on this but I do appreciate the explanation.

 

[Magic Man]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not at all sold on this but I do appreciate the explanation.

No problem. All you have to do is compare our system with that of most other industrialized countries to see whose works the best, and we're ranked 37th in the world, even though we spend more than anyone else by far.

 

[seacrest]

it's a big no! obviously, if the government mandates socialized medicine, then those big pharmaceutical companies will be on the brink of bankruptcy.. just so you know how the world works.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

it's a big no! obviously, if the government mandates socialized medicine, then those big pharmaceutical companies will be on the brink of bankruptcy.. just so you know how the world works.

Why should they become bankrupt... They make good money in the other countries that have social medicine. However thy will no longer be able to hold you to ransome.

 

[linwood]

Think about it, we have x amount of dollars. We spend y amount of dollars. Divide one into the other and you come up with the percent we over spend. Cut every program by that percent.

If some programs experience an immoral underfunding, we simply cut other programs all together to reduce the percentage.

Or we could simplify the whole damn thing and hack the DOD budget in half and have a surplus AFTER paying for healthcare.

We wouldn`t be able to just go blow the hell out of anything we wanted anywhere in the world anywhere but..mehh.

Edit:
Now I see I already said that 6 months ago.
who is resurrecting these threads?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't see how we can't afford to not have it. As individuals and companies purchase government packages, that is income for the government. It might drive the costs of health care down, which means less money that medicaid/medicare are spending.It will cost alot to cover everyone, but a healthy work force is more productive, and we tend to be happier when where not stuck roughing out various illnesses because a doctors visit is too expensive. I give credit to pharmacies that have very cheap to free generics. That will eliminate a massive expense for medications to actually get better for most cases. If it turns out there is no generic, then you are screwed.
And since medications won't be an issue, then that means the work force will recover sooner. Now if we can just get paid sick days so we can actually stay at home and rest, and practically eliminate the threat of a bug going around and making everyone sick.
I am glad about the health care bill though. Because of it as of the beginning of 2011 I will be back on my dad's insurance for two more years, and he has very good insurance. The co-pay went up from $10 to $25, but that is for anything including surgeries. He also has dental, which is great because I haven't been to a dentist in almost two years.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't see how we can't afford to not have it.

The cold hard reality is, the social security system was never designed to pay retirees for 20+ years.

Folks clog up the doctors office spending money on medicare so they can draw a check even longer.

People need to enjoy retirement for 10 years and die.

If the current situation continues, we will have multiple generations on social security with one generation paying the bills.

That simply will not work.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People need to enjoy retirement for 10 years and die.

That's very harsh. Especially considering more and more people are living to be over 100. Now do you really expect an 89 year old person to be working? Some of them would be capable, but why be a slave driver and expect people to work when they should be allowed to enjoy the rest of their lives?

 

[Reverend Rick]

That's very harsh. Especially considering more and more people are living to be over 100. Now do you really expect an 89 year old person to be working? Some of them would be capable, but why be a slave driver and expect people to work when they should be allowed to enjoy the rest of their lives?

OK, if people are living to be 100, lets say they finish college at 22, someone supported them that long.

Say they manage to get a good job at 25 and work 40 years and retire at age 65.

Are you saying a person should only produce something on this planet 40% of their life?

I think people should retire at any age they like, but the benefits should only last for 15 years max.

Either that or we need to double the amount taken out of everyone's check to pay for this all.

Think about it, if you have some families that have the next generation every 20 years:

Grandpa 102 years old drawing a check
His daughter 82 years old drawing a check
His grandson 62 drawing a check
His great granddaughter 42 working her butt off
His great great grandson 22 just getting his act together not paying taxes yet
His great great great granddaughter 2 years old dependent on his grandma.

Six people being supported by one wage earner. How is that going to work?

 

[Panda]

For once I agree with Rick. As people live longer it only makes sense that they should work longer.

 

[Copernicus]

The cold hard reality is, the social security system was never designed to pay retirees for 20+ years.

The statistics in the OP show that life expectancy in the US is well below 20+ years of retirement, and the retirement age is on the way up. The Japanese force people to retire much earlier. Their average life expectancy is 5 years longer than ours (83 vs. 78), and their "healthy life expectancy is 6 years longer (75 vs. 69). Clearly, socialized medicine is not the way to go. They should reform their system to be more like ours. :sarcastic

Folks clog up the doctors office spending money on medicare so they can draw a check even longer.

We don't want to coddle hypochondriacs, do we? It's true that some people may have a legitimate reason to "clog up the doctor's office" (even though it may stand in the way of my getting a convenient appointment), but do we want to coddle them, as well?

People need to enjoy retirement for 10 years and die.

This could be put into law. We could call it the "Scrooge Law". We could attach it as an amendment to a bill designed to reinstate the ban on estate taxes for the super-rich, who would, of course, be exempted from the measure. Implementation would be as easy and painless as capital punishment always has been. (I've never understood why we coddle criminals like that. They ought to be tortured to death.)

If the current situation continues, we will have multiple generations on social security with one generation paying the bills.

Dreadful. I'm in Japan now, but I haven't really seen the suffering their health care system causes. They are an amazingly stoic people.

That simply will not work.

The rest of the world must be insane.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Copernicus, Japan has a work ehic. They are better educated. They have a higher standard of living. They don't have an immigration problem. They are much smaller than us.

If America was more like Japan, we could be more like Japan.

 

[Magic Man]

For once I agree with Rick. As people live longer it only makes sense that they should work longer.

People are working longer. But you can't seriously expect most 70-year-olds to work, can you?

If people are living longer, then we need to take that into account, but not by forcing 70- and 80-year-olds to continue working. Maybe we need to take more out in taxes to put more into that system, or maybe we can reform the system to work better.

 

[Reverend Rick]

People are working longer. But you can't seriously expect most 70-year-olds to work, can you?

If people are living longer, then we need to take that into account, but not by forcing 70- and 80-year-olds to continue working. Maybe we need to take more out in taxes to put more into that system, or maybe we can reform the system to work better.

For once I agree with you Matt.

 

[Copernicus]

Copernicus, Japan has a work ehic. They are better educated. They have a higher standard of living. They don't have an immigration problem. They are much smaller than us.

For crying out loud. Americans have a work ethic. So do Mexicans. So do Canadians. We used to have a better educational system, when the government paid more attention to it and taxpayers were convinced it was a good investment. Their standard of living is higher, because their government is structured to support a high standard of living. Immigration is not quite the problem here that you think it is. Illegal immigrants actually prop up our economy by providing cheap labor. While much smaller, they actually have less land and natural resources.

If America was more like Japan, we could be more like Japan.

America is really not as different from Japan as people think. I've heard this excuse inside a large corporation that wants to adopt advanced Japanese manufacturing processes (which actually originated in the US at IBM and Ford). The idea, they think, is to create the work ethic and still fire people at the drop of a hat. They want to get employees to have the same loyal attitude towards the corporation that the Japanese workers do. They just think it unamerican to do what is necessary to foster that attitude. Why? Because they can't believe the Japanese system works.

 

[Reverend Rick]

they can't believe the Japanese system works.

The Japanese sytem does work and it works very well. The thing is, China is moving in on their markets.

I still have a Pioneer stereo that I bought in 1977 that has a superior sound to anything you can buy on the market now.

Please tell me about any product you have bought from China that has lasted even 5 years?