Can the Zetgeist Believers Please Stop Comparing Jesus with Osiris and Horus?

[Rainbow Mage]

I'm a Kemetic (Egyptian 'Pagan') and I'm going to clear up this whole mess. Horus was never crucified. There are no ancient contemporary sources accepted by scholars that say Horus was crucified. Horus also didn't die period, he defeated his uncle Set in a series of contendings and became the king of Kemet. Yes, there is a part of the Contendings that say Horus was pierced by a spear, the spear of his mother Aset, but she also pierced Set after that. As for Osiris, yes he did die, but he didn't ressurect. It's total tosh. He was ressurected for like ten minutes or something by Aset's magic so she could get pregnant with his seed. Do people really think this sounds anything like Jesus? Seriously?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

No not at all. I don't understand how people can mixed these two together.

 

[Oberon]

Do people really think this sounds anything like Jesus? Seriously?

They do. Parallells between the Jesus story, and the stories of other ancient gods

 

[Tiapan]

They all sound like great legends almost as good as "Lord of the Rings" by Tolkien (a contemporary masterpiece of human the analogy).

Cheers

 

[Thesavorofpan]

They all sound like great legends almost as good as "Lord of the Rings" by Tolkien (a contemporary masterpiece of human the analogy).

Cheers

I thought Tolkien Lord of the Rings were just bed time stories he told to his kids.

 

[Smoke]

Do people really think this sounds anything like Jesus? Seriously?

You will find that people who promote this kind of thing are not generally susceptible to reason.

 

[MSizer]

I thought Tolkien Lord of the Rings were just bed time stories he told to his kids.

Such is the nature of all mythology, the resurrection included.

 

[Willamena]

Such is the nature of all mythology, the resurrection included.

Unless, of course, you actually know what mythology is.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Seeing the commonalities and evolution of mythologies around the world is an interesting subject. What's wrong with exploring these things?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

As long as it's on the internet, it will be spammed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm a Kemetic (Egyptian 'Pagan') and I'm going to clear up this whole mess. Horus was never crucified. There are no ancient contemporary sources accepted by scholars that say Horus was crucified. Horus also didn't die period, he defeated his uncle Set in a series of contendings and became the king of Kemet. Yes, there is a part of the Contendings that say Horus was pierced by a spear, the spear of his mother Aset, but she also pierced Set after that. As for Osiris, yes he did die, but he didn't ressurect. It's total tosh. He was ressurected for like ten minutes or something by Aset's magic so she could get pregnant with his seed. Do people really think this sounds anything like Jesus? Seriously?

Never seen Zeitgeist, but I have read Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ. He made some interesting points, but I'm not sure that there's solid scholarship behind them. His description of his main sources sets off a few alarm bells for me:

Three virtually unknown authorities used in this book are Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834), an early English mythologist who, through groundbreaking studies of ancient writings, sought freedom from the exclusivism and dogmatism of Christianity; Gerald Massey (1828-1907) an American, who studied Egyptian mythology and there discovered antecedents to images and themes appearing in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament; and Alvin Boyd Kuhn (1880-1963) another American, who pursued extensive academic research into the origins of religious symbols and meanings. His work, though esoteric to untrained eyes, convinced Harpur of the validity of Egyptian sources for much of what appears in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.

Edit: Harpur also draws a link between Egyptian mythology and Christ. In particular, he argues that both Jesus and Horus:

- came to Earth in human form.
- died and was resurrected after three days.
- had 12 male followers, including several fishermen.
- brought Lazarus (which Harpur claims is a Latinization of Al-Asar, which he says is another name for Osiris) back from the dead, which was witnessed by Mary and Martha.


... and a page-long list of other similarities that I can't remember offhand.

 

[dust1n]

I'm a Kemetic (Egyptian 'Pagan') and I'm going to clear up this whole mess. Horus was never crucified. There are no ancient contemporary sources accepted by scholars that say Horus was crucified. Horus also didn't die period, he defeated his uncle Set in a series of contendings and became the king of Kemet. Yes, there is a part of the Contendings that say Horus was pierced by a spear, the spear of his mother Aset, but she also pierced Set after that. As for Osiris, yes he did die, but he didn't ressurect. It's total tosh. He was ressurected for like ten minutes or something by Aset's magic so she could get pregnant with his seed. Do people really think this sounds anything like Jesus? Seriously?

And your sources?

EDIT: I mean, honestly, I don't care... and I haven't read the sources.. but this is the only comparison made in Zeitgeist with all references attached.

[S#] = Source - [M] = *More information - [D] = Debate Issues[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

This is Horus.[M] He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC [S8] [D]. He is the sun, anthropomorphized, and his life is a series of allegorical myths involving the sun's movement in the sky. [S9] [S10] [M] From the ancient hieroglyphics in Egypt, we know much about this solar messiah. For instance, Horus, being the sun, or the light, had an enemy known as Set and Set [D] was the personification of the darkness or night .[M] [S11] And, metaphorically speaking, every morning Horus would win the battle against Set - while in the evening, Set would conquer Horus and send him into the underworld. [S12] [S13] It is important to note that "dark vs. light" or "good vs. evil" is one of the most ubiquitous mythological dualities ever known and is still expressed on many levels to this day.

​

Broadly speaking, the story of Horus is as follows: Horus was born on December 25th [S14] [S15] of the virgin Isis-Meri.[S16] [S17] [S18] [D] [M] His birth was accompanied by a star in the east [S19], and upon his birth we was adored by three kings.[M] [S20] [S21] At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, and at the age of 30 [S22] [S23] he was baptized by a figure known as Anup [M] and thus began his ministry[S24] [M]. Horus had 12 disciples[S25] he traveled about with, performing miracles[S26] [S27]such as healing the sick[S28] and walking on water[S29]. Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others[S30] [S31]. After being betrayed by Typhon[S32], Horus was crucified[S33] [S34], buried for 3 days[S35], and thus, resurrected.[S36] [S37] [M].​

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm

Which comparisons are wrong and what is source for saying so?

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Jesus was a man born to mortal parents. Horus was a God born to parents that were a God and a Goddess. There is no relation there other than that both had parents. Keep in mind though that Isis and Osiris were married when Horus was conceived so Horus was not a *******. <---Okay it masked my word. I was using the word that refers to a child born out of wedlock.

Also, the Zeitgeist folks are the only ones that seem to feel compelled to add "Meri" onto the name of Isis. I have never heard of this. Are they going to start calling Osiris by the name "Osiris-Josef" next?

 

[Oberon]

and I haven't read the sources.. but this is the only comparison made in Zeitgeist with all references attached.

The references themselves might have tipped you off. They aren't to modern academic works, because the whole thing is bogus.

 

[dust1n]

Jesus was a man born to mortal parents.

Ok.. well, no where in the movie does it suggest he was or that was a comparison. Read closer.

Granted.. Jesus was born to a 'sinless' being and a immortal being.

 

[dust1n]

The references themselves might have tipped you off. They aren't to modern academic works, because the whole thing is bogus.

I've never claimed that I'm familiar with the sources. But I didn't make the thread. If I made a thread named 'Jesus and Horus: Same Damn Thing', I could see why you might scoff. I am reply to someone who is making the assertion that the movie is incorrect, but is not willing to correct it... I'm asking him why he thinks the sources are incorrect - I'm assuming that is what he believes about the authors since he is claiming the information is incorrect. I'm asking him to make his claim.

 

[Oberon]

Thing', I could see why you might scoff.

I didn't mean to imply that I was scoffing. I probably should have phrased what I said differently. I realize you were merely pointing out that the OP, in claiming that Zeitgeit like claims are incorrect, never cited any evidence.

My point, however, was to draw attention to the sources used in the film, which by themselves are indicative of the flawed research and conclusions, apart from the need to cite contrary evidence.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I told you dust1n read the Contendings of Horus and Set. 9-10 Penguin, Horus didn't come to earth in human form, he is a god, born of the goddess Isis.

 

[Apion]

Perhaps this can give the whole thing a bit of perspective: Zeitgeist: The Movie, Myths, and Motivations

 

[dust1n]

I didn't mean to imply that I was scoffing. I probably should have phrased what I said differently. I realize you were merely pointing out that the OP, in claiming that Zeitgeit like claims are incorrect, never cited any evidence.

Sorry, it was worded a little funny, and I couldn't exactly understand you.

My point, however, was to draw attention to the sources used in the film, which by themselves are indicative of the flawed research and conclusions, apart from the need to cite contrary evidence.

I know. IMO, the comparisons aren't not that interesting, and if anyone wants to still speculate on it, their are still many Gods which do, in fact, have similar stories to Jesus. The egyptian mythology is a lot less connected to Christianity than more 'modern' religions. But like I said... I was just curious to the sources for his claims.