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Can the Zetgeist Believers Please Stop Comparing Jesus with Osiris and Horus?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
The Gospels are not entirely myth, some of it probably is genuine sayings of Jesus. You have to remember the gospels are not historical accounts or eyewitness testimonies, they were written 20-50 years after Jesus' lifetime. Some gospels continued being written even after that, just showing how the Jesus tradition evolved in the early centuries.
dust1n
Zindīq
It might have something to do with these...
Egyptian Hieroglyphs with the inscription Àset-Meri (Isis Beloved) at the British Museum - The Nile: Notes for Travellers in Egypt (1905), by Ernest Alfred Wallis Budge
I agree.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I don't really follow the logic here. You would have a very hard time actually supporting that idea.
Not really but most people are not going to look past the blind faith and are only going to accept what they have been fed for the last 2500 years. They are all sitting around waiting on some huge event like the Rapture or Armageddon and that sad state of affairs they like to call the Tribulation where they get great joy in watching the sinners suffer for 1000 years. Get real! If all this were real why is not Jesus still here? How can a person with the power to rise from the dead, heal the sick and all this other garbage just disappear off the face of the planet without a trace? He did'nt because in order for him to do that he had to have existed.
Christians like to use the weak argument "No man knows the time or day" yeah we do the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West and has been doing it since the dawn of time. Their mythical Christ is based on nothing more than attributes made to the Sun. Sun of Man or Son of Man which ever you prefer?
The way I see it is that no man that cannot be killed is going to just disappear off the face of the planet. Would you? Its an Astrotheological Myth.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
First, you can't prove that Jesus is based off of the Sun. That is just ridiculous.
As for your whole argument, it fails for the reason that the historical Jesus is not the same as the Biblical Jesus. People interested in a historical Jesus acknowledge the myths in the Bible, and take them out. There was no resurrection, that is part of the myth.
As for the Rapture and Tribulation, there are many Christians that don't believe that. And really, it had no part in the original Jesus movement. Even in the book of Revelations, which is the main supporter of that ideas, is shown by modern scholars to have been actually written about the time in which it was written in. Meaning, it was talking about Rome during that time.
dust1n
Zindīq
Yes, if you count the Bible as proof.
Psalms 84:11 "the Lord God is a sun..."
John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world."
John 9:5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Matthew 4:16 The people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
Matthew 17:2 His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
John 1:3-8 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
John 3:19-20 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Ephesians 5:14 Christ will shine on you.
Colossians 3:2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.
Psalms 84:11 "the Lord God is a sun..."
You got it. Its all Astro Theological.....Sun of God aka Son of God................they might not count the Jesus of the Bible he was not historical his brother Jesus II was the actual historical figure....I guess that explains the two crooks on either side of the cross...............
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I think we both could agree that this is a very long stretch. We can completely forget about Psalms as it has nothing to do with Jesus. The other ones are calling him a light. By that logic, Jesus could have been based off the moon, the stars, a candle, a lamp, etc. There really is no proof unless you read it into it.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I can't see how you would even consider that evidence that Jesus is based off the sun. It is only evidence if you take verses out of context, mixed with Old Testament passages that have nothing to do with Jesus, and then a lot of stretching. I would still like to hear you defend your source though, the Sixteen Crucified Saviors one.
Again though, yes, it is ridiculous to claim that Jesus is based off the sun. Especially if your argument is taking verses out of context that don't even talk about the sun, Old Testament passages that don't even talk about Jesus, and then claiming it is proof.
dust1n
Zindīq
Sorry man.. I read the Bible literally and the Bible does say,
"Psalms 84:11 "the Lord God is a sun..."
In which case, I can not argue the infallible word of God. Not to mention Jesus is God.
If Jesus = God and God = sun, than logic concludes that Jesus is also the sun.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Son=Sun, sure, why not. The original manuscripts were in English. Weren't they?
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The Bible never says that Jesus is God though. And the Lord God is not a reference to Jesus, but God. Thus, there can be no connection unless one wants to add their own biases towards the argument.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I'm not sure I would compare Jesus to sun god worship. That's just me personally. Even the notion that there was actual sun worship in ancient Pagan cultures is a misunderstanding. They saw the sun as a symbol, not as God itself
dust1n
Zindīq
What the **** are you talking about?
John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.
Mark 14:61b-62 [61b] Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" [62] "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Isaiah 9:6-7 [6] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. [7] Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Isaiah has nothing to do with Jesus, so we can just void that one. Mark is talking about the Son of Man, which is not God.
As for John, he never states that "I am God." Yes, one could interpret what he is saying to mean that he is God. However, what he is saying is that God is in me. Not that he is God.
John 10:30 though, if taken in context, will be shown that Jesus differentiates between himself and God. After being accused of teaching that he is God, he explains and says that he is God's Son. This makes perfect sense then why he would say that the Father was in him (or apart of him) and that the father and him are one (as the Father is apart of him). He makes it very clear though that he is not God, but the son of God.
As for John, he never states that "I am God." Yes, one could interpret what he is saying to mean that he is God. However, what he is saying is that God is in me. Not that he is God.
John 10:30 though, if taken in context, will be shown that Jesus differentiates between himself and God. After being accused of teaching that he is God, he explains and says that he is God's Son. This makes perfect sense then why he would say that the Father was in him (or apart of him) and that the father and him are one (as the Father is apart of him). He makes it very clear though that he is not God, but the son of God.