Can we change our mind about what we believe?

[CG Didymus]

With regards to the interpretation of Biblical prophecies it is written very clearly that….

Daniel 12:9

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

And in Revelation 5:3-5

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So what is this interpretation of Christ coming on clouds from heaven and every eye seeing Him mean? Who is it given to unseal these meanings according to the text?

Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So the Promised One is to unseal the meanings both literal and figurative and be of the tribe of Judah and the root of David. Baha’u’llah was both descendant of David through his father Jesse and from Abraham through His wife Keturah.

As a Christian, I investigated and found Baha’u’llah to be that Lion and the One Who unsealed the books. And so too have many other Christians as well as some priests and clergy. In due time I believe all eyes will see just as all eyes have seen Christ’s spiritual sovereignty after many centuries.

When did this happen?

Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.​

​

Whenever the daily sacrifice and the other stuff happened, from that time there will be the 1290 days.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How would I "know" that? That is a Baha'i belief. And that is a major problem that some people have with Baha'is. And it is similar to the problem that some people have with any religion that believes that God only communicates to certain individuals who then tell everybody else what God expects of us and who God is. Are any of these individuals consistent with each other?

There is small to great variation between what these individuals say. People with beliefs like the born-again Christians simply say that most of those other individuals were false prophets. They do accept those from the Jewish religion, but they negate several things taught in Judaism and say those things have been replaced with new teachings from God.

A religion like the Baha'i Faith does that with all the other major religions. They say that those old teachings have been replaced by newer ones from their prophet. But not with everything... some teachings and beliefs, the ones I usually mention are reincarnation as believed by some Hindus, and the physical resurrection as believed by many Christians, these are done away with and discarded as being wrong beliefs based on misinterpretations of the Scriptures from those religions.

Either way, calling a religion false or saying it's been replaced by the new teachings of the new religion, the old religions are made irrelevant.

We are saying that the old religions have been fulfilled with the coming of Baha’u’llah. The validity of Christ is proven to me a thousand fold now I have discovered He has returned. So I believe more in Christ now as a Baha’i than I did when I was a Christian. And the message of Christ has been built on from love thy neighbour to love all mankind.

 

[loverofhumanity]

When did this happen?

Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.​

​

Whenever the daily sacrifice and the other stuff happened, from that time there will be the 1290 days.

It should be noted that Daniel predicted both the Declaration of the Bab - 1844 as well as the Declaration of Baha’u’llah 1863.

Note that the Master indicates that, in this instance, time is measured by the "lunar" calendar. Since the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad took place ten years prior to the Hegira, i.e., His flight from Mecca to Medina, from which date the Muslim calendar begins, the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad was the year 1280 of the Hegira, or 1863-64 A.D.

 

[CG Didymus]

It should be noted that Daniel predicted both the Declaration of the Bab - 1844 as well as the Declaration of Baha’u’llah 1863.

Note that the Master indicates that, in this instance, time is measured by the "lunar" calendar. Since the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad took place ten years prior to the Hegira, i.e., His flight from Mecca to Medina, from which date the Muslim calendar begins, the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad was the year 1280 of the Hegira, or 1863-64 A.D.

But the question is... “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

What does the proclamation of Muhammad have to do with this? Was there a time in Jewish history when the daily sacrifice was abolished and the abomination that causes desolation was set up? If so, when did it happen?

 

[CG Didymus]

We are saying that the old religions have been fulfilled with the coming of Baha’u’llah. The validity of Christ is proven to me a thousand fold now I have discovered He has returned. So I believe more in Christ now as a Baha’i than I did when I was a Christian. And the message of Christ has been built on from love thy neighbour to love all mankind.

I don't know what "validity" has been proven. Did Jesus walk on water? Did he raise Lazarus from the dead? Did he conquer Satan and death? Did he himself get raised from the dead?

How do you answer those questions? I think a typical Baha'i would say... No, Jesus didn't walk on water. That was symbolic. No, Jesus didn't raise Lazarus from the dead. That was symbolic. Conquering Satan and death and being raised from the dead? Same thing... all symbolic.

Which makes the traditional Christian beliefs, that were based on the gospels and other Christian writings, all wrong. For 2000 years, the main sects of Christianity mistakenly took the Christian Scriptures too literal. According to Baha'i beliefs, they were wrong in doing so. They should have taken all those things symbolically.

And, what is totally weird, Baha'is believe the virgin birth was literally true. A story easily fabricated. It was only mentioned in two gospels. Which contradict each other. And both contradict what is said in the Quran, that Mary gave birth to Jesus under a date palm. And the whole story depends on taking one verse from Isaiah out of context.

But does any of that matter? No, people that find a religion they can believe in will accept most any "reasonable" explanation. And, in a way, making the stories in the Bible and NT fictional is kind of reasonable... that is compared to believing them to be literally true. But, for me, even more reasonable would be just to say they were fiction... that people made up some religious beliefs and made up some laws and told people that those laws came from an invisible God to get them to follow those laws.

How farfetched would that be? Since several ancient cultures had religions with laws and gods that most of us consider nothing more than myth. And Baha'is do make those stories essentially "myth"... by saying they are symbolic, which means they didn't literally happen. They are fictional stories. Yet, the God, the laws, and some of the people are considered real?

Baha'is make Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus all real... and make them "manifestations" of God, but make most of the stories about their lives fictional, symbolic myth? So, what is this "validity" that you speak of?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..for me, even more reasonable would be just to say they were fiction... that people made up some religious beliefs and made up some laws and told people that those laws came from an invisible God to get them to follow those laws..

How convenient .. it's all a conspiracy.
You are free to do whatever you like .. eat pork .. greedily make excessive profit .. womanise etc.

..but better if you realised now, that G-d's guidance is true, and we are the losers if we ignore it.

 

[Trailblazer]

..but better if you realised now, that G-d's guidance is true, and we are the losers if we ignore it.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.”
Gleanings, p. 339

 

[loverofhumanity]

But the question is... “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

What does the proclamation of Muhammad have to do with this? Was there a time in Jewish history when the daily sacrifice was abolished and the abomination that causes desolation was set up? If so, when did it happen?

‘Tell us,’ they said, ‘when will this happen? And what will be the signal for your coming and the end of the age?’ –Matthew 24:3

The above prophecy is asking Jesus when will be His return and when will be the end of the age. And Jesus answers them below…

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)... –Matthew 24:15

The disciples are asking for the time, the date and were referred to Daniel. And Daniel provided the time from the the abolishment of one dispensation to the establishment of the new one and since the disciples are asking about Christ’s return the 1290 days is referring to Islam which uses a lunar calendar and appeared after Jesus.

Now from the time of the public proclamation of Muhammad 613 AD solar years to the public declaration of Baha’u’llah’s mission 1863 AD there are 1250 solar years but because we are speaking about the time between the Dispensations then we are speaking about Islam which is reckoned in lunar years and 1250 solar years is approximately 1290 lunar years.

And Bahá'u'lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad, caused His manifestation to be known. (SAQ)

The reason for the interchange in using the Christian calendar and the lunar Muslim calendar is relevant to the questions being asked and when they were asked. Questions regarding the 2300 days are concerning the edict to rebuild Jerusalem so it is using the solar calendar. But questions regarding how long until Christ’s return had to take into account that the time in between was dominated by Islam which uses a lunar calendar so lunar years are used and which takes us to 1863.

 

[CG Didymus]

How convenient .. it's all a conspiracy.
You are free to do whatever you like .. eat pork .. greedily make excessive profit .. womanise etc.

..but better if you realised now, that G-d's guidance is true, and we are the losers if we ignore it.

So, the Adam and Eve story is true? That Isaac was taken by Abraham to be sacrificed, just like it says in Genesis true? There was a world-wide flood approximately 4000 years ago? Jesus died on the cross just like all four of the gospels say? And, since we should include the claims of the Baha'i Faith, then the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the ones promised messengers from God promised in the Quran and the Bible? Is there anything, in any of the religions that sounds questionable? Or possible made up? Like Elijah getting carried off in a fiery chariot? Or dead people coming out of their graves and walking around Jerusalem when Jesus was being crucified?

It's not that hard to see why some people believe in a religion. It's not that hard to see why some don't. And it's not that hard to see why some people find a new and different religion that makes more sense to them than any of the old ones.

I don't eat pork. I'm a vegetarian. I got that from new age people that took bit and pieces of Hinduism and made up their new age beliefs. Any of it true? I don't know. But I liked the idea of being a vegetarian.

Profits and "womanizing"? Does having a religion and belief in God stop some people from doing either one? And which "guidance" do you want from God do you want to follow? Fundie Christian? Mormon? Baha'i? Orthodox Jewish? How about the teachings of the Hare Krishna people? The "guidance" and the beliefs about God are different in each one. Any of them true?

 

[CG Didymus]

‘Tell us,’ they said, ‘when will this happen? And what will be the signal for your coming and the end of the age?’ –Matthew 24:3

The above prophecy is asking Jesus when will be His return and when will be the end of the age. And Jesus answers them below…

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)... –Matthew 24:15

The disciples are asking for the time, the date and were referred to Daniel. And Daniel provided the from the the abolishment of one dispensation to the establishment of the new one and since the disciples are asking about Christ’s return the 1290 days is referring to Islam which uses a lunar calendar and appeared after Jesus.

Now from the time of the public proclamation of Muhammad 613 AD solar years to the public declaration of Baha’u’llah’s mission 1863 AD there are 1250 solar years but because we are speaking about the time between the Dispensations then we are speaking about Islam which is reckoned in lunar years and 1250 solar years is approximately 1290 lunar years.

And Bahá'u'lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad, caused His manifestation to be known. (SAQ)

The reason for the interchange in using the Christian calendar and the lunar Muslim calendar is relevant to the questions being asked and when they were asked. Questions regarding the 2300 days are concerning the edict to rebuild Jerusalem so it is using the solar calendar. But questions regarding how long until Christ’s return had to take into account that the time in between was dominated by Islam which uses a lunar calendar so lunar years are used and which takes us to 1863.

Okay, let's look at Matthew 24...

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.​

​

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.​

​

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.​

​

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.​

​

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.​

​

Still the stopping of the daily prayer and the abomination of desolation doesn't sound like it is referring to the "abolishing" of a "dispensation".

And in Matthew it has the wars and rumors of war and the rest of it. But that's not yet the end it says. Many false prophets arise. Who were they? Was the "gospel" of the kingdom preached to the whole world yet? And then it happens... the abomination standing in the holy place. A new "dispensation"? Doesn't sound like it. Jesus says for the people to flee... that there will be great distress. And do the people find the Messiah? No, Jesus says not to believe those claiming to have found the Messiah.

But back to Daniel... In chapter 8 it says...

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”​

​

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”​

​

Still, a reference to the daily sacrifice and a rebellion that causes desolation and the rest. What is that and when did it happen? Because that sounds like we should start counting the mornings and evenings. Not from some decree to go rebuild Jerusalem. And also, what does 2300 evenings and mornings mean? Should we count the first evening as one and the first morning as two? Or do you think it's okay to make these mornings and evenings 2300 days... then deciding whether to turn them into lunar or solar years?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't eat pork. I'm a vegetarian..

I wasn't really referring to "you" singular..
..but while I am not vegetarian, I eat little meat.

..And which "guidance" do you want from God do you want to follow?

..try the ten commandments, for starters?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, let's look at Matthew 24...

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.​

​

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.​

​

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.​

​

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.​

​

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.​

​

Still the stopping of the daily prayer and the abomination of desolation doesn't sound like it is referring to the "abolishing" of a "dispensation".

And in Matthew it has the wars and rumors of war and the rest of it. But that's not yet the end it says. Many false prophets arise. Who were they? Was the "gospel" of the kingdom preached to the whole world yet? And then it happens... the abomination standing in the holy place. A new "dispensation"? Doesn't sound like it. Jesus says for the people to flee... that there will be great distress. And do the people find the Messiah? No, Jesus says not to believe those claiming to have found the Messiah.

But back to Daniel... In chapter 8 it says...

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”​

​

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”​

​

Still, a reference to the daily sacrifice and a rebellion that causes desolation and the rest. What is that and when did it happen? Because that sounds like we should start counting the mornings and evenings. Not from some decree to go rebuild Jerusalem. And also, what does 2300 evenings and mornings mean? Should we count the first evening as one and the first morning as two? Or do you think it's okay to make these mornings and evenings 2300 days... then deciding whether to turn them into lunar or solar years?

This prophecy is regarding the destiny of the Jews.

The vision that Daniel had in chapter 8: 13-14 regarding the 2300 days is the same vision where Daniel, and in chapter 9:25 is told that from the going forth of the command to rebuild Jerusalem they will have the opportunity to accept the Messiah, Jesus which is mention as 490 days or years. Jesus lived till 33 which totals the 490 years.

But Israel persecuted Christ and so had to wait until the 2300 years was fulfilled. The edict to rebuild Jerusalem was fulfilled by King Artaxerxes in 457 bc and 2300 years brings us to 1844 if we include that the Christian year missed the year zero and technically is one year ahead Of time.

 

[CG Didymus]

I wasn't really referring to "you" singular..
..but while I am not vegetarian, I eat little meat.


..try the ten commandments, for starters?

Don't lie. Don't steal. Don't murder. Yeah, good advice. But did it come from God? Then what do non-Jews do with the commandment about the Sabbath? And did God really want the people that did anything considered "work" stoned to death? But there is still the advice that God gave to Joshua, to go kill every man, woman and child in Jericho.

I'm much more comfortable thinking that an ancient warrior people made that up. They demonized their enemies and made their God the only true God. But I do believe the effect of religion is to get people to do what's good and right... for those people in that culture at that time. An invisible God watching and punishing the people for not obeying is a real good way to get most of the people obeying and following the laws. I just think this invisible God could very easily have been made up.

 

[CG Didymus]

This prophecy is regarding the destiny of the Jews.

The vision that Daniel had in chapter 8: 13-14 regarding the 2300 days is the same vision where Daniel, and in chapter 9:25 is told that from the going forth of the command to rebuild Jerusalem they will have the opportunity to accept the Messiah, Jesus which is mention as 490 days or years. Jesus lived till 33 which totals the 490 years.

But Israel persecuted Christ and so had to wait until the 2300 years was fulfilled. The edict to rebuild Jerusalem was fulfilled by King Artaxerxes in 457 bc and 2300 years brings us to 1844 if we include that the Christian year missed the year zero and technically is one year ahead Of time.

Okay, there was a lot there in Matthew. The wars and rumors of wars but that is not yet the end. Earthquakes and famines and many false Messiahs. And there was a ruler that desecrated the Temple. But the stopping of the daily prayer and the abomination are not part of the Baha'i interpretation. If it doesn't matter to you, that's okay. Christians do the same thing. They find ways to interpret a prophecy about the Messiah fit into their beliefs. They also make things that were not prophecies into prophecies.

The problem is... that by doing that, the religion will always be questioned by some people. And some people in the other religions will be some of them that question and reject the claims of "fulfilled" prophecy by the newer religions.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm much more comfortable thinking that an ancient warrior people made that up..

..so, if that is the case, then there IS no God who is able to guide mankind?
..and the Bible and Qur'an are just fiction, by multiple authors over 1000's of years?

Now THAT, I just cannot believe. We all belong to G-d, and surely, we will return unto Him!

 

[Trailblazer]

..and the Bible and Qur'an are just fiction, by multiple authors over 1000's of years?

Now THAT, I just cannot believe.

Neither can I, since it is patently illogical.
Why would multiple authors write fiction about a fictional God, over the course of 4000 years?
It just does not make any sense at all.

 

[CG Didymus]

..so, if that is the case, then there IS no God who is able to guide mankind?
..and the Bible and Qur'an are just fiction, by multiple authors over 1000's of years?

Now THAT, I just cannot believe. We all belong to G-d, and surely, we will return unto Him!

Is the Bible and the NT without errors? Was the first five books written by Moses? Were the gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? And if so, we're they eyewitnesses to everything they wrote about? And did they take notes or just had very good memories?

All I'm saying is that for me, it's very likely that religious people and leaders wrote stories that became the Bible about their God and about the different people that came and went along the way.

But just how exact do you or other Muslims take the Bible? Are you like the "young Earth creationist" Christians? That believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old? Do you believe that people lived for 900 years? Do you believe a world-wide flood happened about 4000 years ago, and it killed all living things that weren't on Noah's ark? Were there Nephilim, the giants? And again, the Elijah flew off into the sky in a fiery chariot?

Then the NT... The virgin birth, the moving star, the walking on water, the raising the dead, and the resurrection? All literally true? Or, like the Baha'i, do you believe some of those were "symbolic" stories? What I think is that they were fictional stories embellished with a bunch of miracles. But that's just me. I understand the Jews, Christians, Muslims and Baha'is understand and interpret the Bible differently.

Oh, and a note for the Baha'is here. I thought Baha'is believe that some of the stories were symbolic, and not literal. Which makes them fictional doesn't it? Again... like the creation story, the flood story, Jonah getting swallowed by a big fish, Samson losing his strength by having his hair cut. Great stories. But literally true? Are they real, historical, actual events that happened? And what's so freaking weird is that Baha'is say that literal-believing Christians are being "illogical". And now to not believe these stories as being fictional is also "illogical"? And we all know, that neither the Muslims or Baha'is believe the Bible and the NT in any sort of literal, non-fictional way. You both believe that the Bible is wrong... yes, wrong... when it claims that Abraham took Isaac. So, what is that story? Hmmm? Maybe fiction?

 

[Link]

Neither can I, since it is patently illogical.
Why would multiple authors write fiction about a fictional God, over the course of 4000 years?
It just does not make any sense at all.

The Quran acknowledges the possibility of fake Prophets, conspiracy to make religions, but addresses all these doubts. It's not impossible and that doubt to Mohammad (s) is legitimate, which is why God brings it up:

وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِنْ هَٰذَا إِلَّا إِفْكٌ افْتَرَاهُ وَأَعَانَهُ عَلَيْهِ قَوْمٌ آخَرُونَ ۖ فَقَدْ جَاءُوا ظُلْمًا وَزُورًا | The faithless say, ‘This is nothing but a lie that he has fabricated, and other people have helped him in it.’ Thus they have certainly come out with wrongdoing/injustice and falsehood. | Al-Furqaan : 4

Indeed these doubts are brought up in the Quran, because, they need to be addressed.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, there was a lot there in Matthew. The wars and rumors of wars but that is not yet the end. Earthquakes and famines and many false Messiahs. And there was a ruler that desecrated the Temple. But the stopping of the daily prayer and the abomination are not part of the Baha'i interpretation. If it doesn't matter to you, that's okay. Christians do the same thing. They find ways to interpret a prophecy about the Messiah fit into their beliefs. They also make things that were not prophecies into prophecies.

The problem is... that by doing that, the religion will always be questioned by some people. And some people in the other religions will be some of them that question and reject the claims of "fulfilled" prophecy by the newer religions.

These are some insights from Abdul-Baha re the abomination of desolation which includes things like the stopping of prayer.

The physical abomination of desolation is the razing and destroying of buildings. The spiritual abomination of desolation is the destruction of the teachings of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is the Bible and the NT without errors? Was the first five books written by Moses? Were the gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? And if so, we're they eyewitnesses to everything they wrote about? And did they take notes or just had very good memories?

All I'm saying is that for me, it's very likely that religious people and leaders wrote stories that became the Bible about their God and about the different people that came and went along the way.

But just how exact do you or other Muslims take the Bible? Are you like the "young Earth creationist" Christians? That believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old? Do you believe that people lived for 900 years? Do you believe a world-wide flood happened about 4000 years ago, and it killed all living things that weren't on Noah's ark? Were there Nephilim, the giants? And again, the Elijah flew off into the sky in a fiery chariot?

Then the NT... The virgin birth, the moving star, the walking on water, the raising the dead, and the resurrection? All literally true? Or, like the Baha'i, do you believe some of those were "symbolic" stories? What I think is that they were fictional stories embellished with a bunch of miracles. But that's just me. I understand the Jews, Christians, Muslims and Baha'is understand and interpret the Bible differently.

Oh, and a note for the Baha'is here. I thought Baha'is believe that some of the stories were symbolic, and not literal. Which makes them fictional doesn't it? Again... like the creation story, the flood story, Jonah getting swallowed by a big fish, Samson losing his strength by having his hair cut. Great stories. But literally true? Are they real, historical, actual events that happened? And what's so freaking weird is that Baha'is say that literal-believing Christians are being "illogical". And now to not believe these stories as being fictional is also "illogical"? And we all know, that neither the Muslims or Baha'is believe the Bible and the NT in any sort of literal, non-fictional way. You both believe that the Bible is wrong... yes, wrong... when it claims that Abraham took Isaac. So, what is that story? Hmmm? Maybe fiction?

Why does all of the Bible have to be true in order for some of the Bible to be true?
That is the all or nothing fallacy.

What fallacy is all or nothing?

This chapter focuses on one of the common fallacies in Western philosophy called 'all or nothing (AON)'. AON presents a false dilemma by suggesting that there are only two options – either all or nothing – when in fact there are many more options in the middle ground between those two extremes. May 9, 2018

All or Nothing - Bad Arguments - Wiley Online Library

Also, just because some of the stories are not literally true, that doesn't mean they serve no purpose.
Some of those stories are true in the sense that they convey spiritual truths.
However, I believe that the resurrection stories serve no useful purpose, except to practically destroy a whole religion that could have been a true religion.
I consider that a crying shame.