Can we have different beliefs and still have peace.

[The_Fisher_King]

We accept all people as our fellow human beings regardless of differences. We see humanity as our family.

Well, I can go with that (in principle). But I'm not sure how far that gets you. I can accept a cruel serial killer intent on killing me and my loved ones (very slowly) as a fellow human being. Or members of Daesh/IS. Or anyone who ultimately threatens me, my loved ones and my way of life (in the name of their beliefs). But why should that mean I am going to offer them an olive branch? I have no compunction about fighting against/harming my fellow human beings or members of my family if I see the need.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, I can go with that (in principle). But I'm not sure how far that gets you. I can accept a cruel serial killer intent on killing me and my loved ones (very slowly) as a fellow human being. Or members of Daesh/IS. Or anyone who ultimately threatens me, my loved ones and my way of life (in the name of their beliefs). But why should that mean I am going to offer them an olive branch? I have no compunction about fighting against/harming my fellow human beings or members of my family if I see the need.

We are not speaking about criminals here. Just your average John Doe. As to family, sitting down and talking with them is more productive than fighting.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

We are not speaking about criminals here. Just your average John Doe. As to family, sitting down and talking with them is more productive than fighting.

So when you say 'We accept all people as our fellow human beings regardless of differences. We see humanity as our family' what you mean is 'We accept all people except criminals as our fellow human beings regardless of differences. We see humanity (except criminals) as our family'?

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by 'your average John Doe'.

And as to fighting with family, sometimes family are on the opposite side in a war...

 

[loverofhumanity]

So when you say 'We accept all people as our fellow human beings regardless of differences. We see humanity as our family' what you mean is 'We accept all people except criminals as our fellow human beings regardless of differences. We see humanity (except criminals) as our family'?

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by 'your average John Doe'.

And as to fighting with family, sometimes family are on the opposite side in a war...

Better Baha'u'llah's Words then.

"The utterance of God is a lamp, whose light is these words: Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth. The one true God, He Who knoweth all things, Himself testifieth to the truth of these words."

Criminals need to be rehabilitated but they are human too. However criminals should be shown justice.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Better Baha'u'llah's Words then.

"The utterance of God is a lamp, whose light is these words: Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth. The one true God, He Who knoweth all things, Himself testifieth to the truth of these words."

Criminals need to be rehabilitated but they are human too. However criminals should be shown justice.

Sounds reasonable in principle. However, in practice, what happens if someone threatens (in a pretty fundamental way) my beliefs/way of life (or indeed my very existence) (by virtue of their beliefs) (I'm not talking about criminals here - some deeply-held religious beliefs - and the people holding them - are really going to get in the way of how I want to live my life/threaten my very identity)? Should I deal with them with the utmost love and harmony, friendliness and fellowship, and peace?

For example, if I identify as a man and want to have a sexual relationship with another man - because it is a fundamental part of who I am and, moreover, perfectly acceptable within my belief system - and yet I cannot do so in my country (and indeed live in fear of my life) because other people, with other (deeply-held) beliefs, have a real problem with that (and the law of the land is on their side), how should I think of these people (admittedly, my options for fighting with them might be pretty limited, but how should I deal with them)? As if everything is fine? If people from another land with beliefs at fundamental variance with my own (in these sorts of fundamental ways), come and threaten my most fundamental values and way of life, should I welcome them with open arms? I might tolerate them, if I can, because I have to (for whatever reason), but I'm not going to be all friendly and loving and full of fellowship towards them. Why should I?

 

[arthra]

now that we can view the entire planet as one globe and have things like the internet, are we now able to finally establish some form of peace? What if there was only one thing you had to believe for the world to have peace. Would you embrace it? And you could get to keep your own belief as well. If all you had to accept was that all humans are your equal could you do that? Could you accept all humanity as your equal?

I think it all of this takes time... As people learn to cooperate to achieve important goals and provide for others...their children and loved ones..I think we will be better able to find unity. When greater social bonds are there we'll find more confirmation in our inner lives... with greater peace in the world our spirituality will grow.

 

[loverofhumanity]

People could get to keep their own belief as well?

There're people who're pedophile, criminal, terrorist, rapist and murderer, if they believe it's okay for them to commit crime and the government shouldn't punish them, can they also keeps that beliefs too?

If there're people who believes all humans are not equal, can they keep that beliefs too?


Equal
Adjective - Being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value.
Noun - a person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality.

Hitler is also a part of humanity, should people view him as equal to them too?


Nationality, race, religion or culture have influence on what we believes.
You previously say people could keep their own beliefs, now you say their own beliefs conflict with the beliefs you ask them to accept, can they keep their own beliefs or not?


Many different version of religions' Gods say every non-believer will go to hell and command their followers to preach his words/moral/law to the world, many of those Gods' words/moral/law contribute to the barriers you're talking about, please ask those Gods/believers stop making barriers already.

Oh no, some or many of them say they're helping people to avoid hell and they'll not stop preaching until the end of the day that their Gods comes to earth to bring them to heavens, so you ask when'll the peace comes...?

When the Gods comes then there might be peace...

If the Gods doesn't come, who'll know when will peace comes once and for all...

In the mean time, some people continue to live their live.
Some people continue to wonder when will the peace come.
Some people will make their effort to bring peace into the world.

Whew, some people's peace is that when everyone only eats apple then they'll be have peace of mind. Because their religion's god told them people who continue to eat apple will go to hell.
While majority of people have no problem if anyone wish to eat fruits other than apple because their god haven't told them so or they're atheist.
What an odd version of peace it is.


Who say peace is only up to politicians?


Does that including unconditionally accept the crime of pedophile, criminal, terrorist, rapist and murderer?


Does the things you say we should tolerate including the crime done by pedophile, criminal, terrorist, rapist and murderer?

Nobody's talking about crime here. We are speaking about world peace and how we can get along better.

All I'm speaking about is our common humanity.

 

[Pudding]

Criminal activity of course is not accepted but in general we accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities.

Please share your basis on how you consider an activity to be criminal.

I think people's basis is generally base on their races, religions, cultures and nationalities. Depends on the different races, religions, cultures and nationalities, the basis will vary and even in opposing.

For example, engaging in homosexual behavior is consider to be an illegal and criminal activity in some country, in some other country it's not.

If i'm correct, your meaning is that if we accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities, then we'll have peace.

Please understand that some diversity in some races/religions/cultures/nationalities will be consider by some other races/religions/cultures/nationalities to be criminal activity, like the example i have provide. Depends on situation, one's diversity will even be view as a threat by other.

If you would like to encourage people to accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities, you'll have to make them comes to an agreement on their basis in judging which diversity can be consider to be an criminal activity.

In the process to negotiate this agreement, many wars (be it a big or a small one), division, hatred and prejudice have occur. Many negotiation have been fail but there're also succesful story.

The process of all negotiation takes time, when the process complete, there might have peace once and for all.

But please remember, old people rest and new people born, new people will make their journey to find what diversity they can accept and tolerate, new negotiation begin, perhaps it's a never ending story.

Thanks to the technology, in our current times we can communicating with each other globally more effective, some peace have been establish, some mutually agree version of human rights have been protected in many places, but it's still not close to perfect, there're still problem and disagreement in here and there.

It's a long road, when will it end i don't know.
Will it lead to an eternally good place and when will it happen, i don't know.

Things happens, life goes on, life is short, i dies in the near future, i become dust and/or might become some soul in some version of afterlife and people who's alive might still in their negotiation about what method is the best in bringing more peace or eternal peace to the world.

My understanding is that the barriers to peace are ones we erect in our own minds towards our fellow man.

It can be say so.

Putting love for humanity first includes love of ones race, country religion and culture but priority is humanity first.

Humanity is building on and influence by one's race, country religion and culture, unless you think you can separate humanity from one's race, country religion and culture, otherwise i don't know what do you mean by "priority is humanity first".

Accepting our diversity is what is key. For instance the flowers of a garden though different shape, size and color add to its beauty and in the human garden we can learn to see the differences as beauty rather than threatening.

The discussion and negotiation about what diversity we should accept have been go on for a few thousand years, after the negotiation comes to an agreement by everyone, bigger peace might arrive.

Well, maybe next few hundred or thousand years the bigger peace will comes, after all bigger peace takes time.

Who wants eternal peace to comes?
Then they'll have to fight for it and protect it for eternity.
edit

 

[loverofhumanity]

Please share your basis on how you consider an activity to be criminal.

I think people's basis is generally base on their races, religions, cultures and nationalities. Depends on the different races, religions, cultures and nationalities, the basis will vary and even in opposing.

For example, engaging in homosexual behavior is consider to be an illegal and criminal activity in some country, in some other country it's not.

If i'm correct, your meaning is that if we accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities, then we'll have peace.

Please understand that some diversity in some races/religions/cultures/nationalities will be consider by some other races/religions/cultures/nationalities to be criminal activity, like the example i have provide. Depends on situation, one's diversity will even be view as a threat by other.

If you would like to encourage people to accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities, you'll have to make them comes to an agreement on their basis in judging which diversity can be consider to be an criminal activity.

In the process to negotiate this agreement, many wars (be it a big or a small one), division, hatred and prejudice have occur. Many negotiation have been fail but there're also succesful story.

The process of all negotiation takes time, when the process complete, there might have peace once and for all.

But please remember, old people rest and new people born, new people will make their journey to find what diversity they can accept and tolerate, new negotiation begin, perhaps it's a never ending story.

Thanks to the technology, in our current times we can communicating with each other globally more effective, some peace have been establish, some mutually agree version of human rights have been protected in many places, but it's still not close to perfect, there're still problem and disagreement in here and there.

It's a long road, when will it end i don't know.
Will it lead to an eternally good place and when will it happen, i don't know.

Things happens, life goes on, life is short, i dies in the near future, i become dust and/or some soul in some version of afterlife and people who's alive might still in their negotiation about what method is the best in bringing more peace or eternal peace to the world.


It can be say so.


Humanity is building on and influence by one's race, country religion and culture, unless you think you can separate humanity from one's race, country religion and culture, otherwise i don't know what do you mean by "priority is humanity first".


The discussion and negotiation about what diversity we should accept have been go on for a few thousand years, after the negotiation comes to an agreement by everyone, bigger peace might arrive.

Well, maybe next few hundred or thousand years the bigger peace will comes, after all bigger peace takes time.

Who wants eternal peace to comes?
Then they'll have to fight for it and protect it for eternity.

You make some very good points.
I agree there's a long way to go for some. But I believe in humanity's goodness and that we will mature and become a peaceful world through education and through suffering.

 

[Pudding]

Nobody's talking about crime here. We are speaking about world peace and how we can get along better.

All I'm speaking about is our common humanity.

There is disagreement in your common humanity for example the matters of whether we should accept homosexuality as legal.

Some or many of that disagreement have led to the misery of many people.

It's also true that disagreement doesn't necessarily leads to unhapiness, because we can live and let live, but again it depends on situation when things directly in relation to harm/threaten us, live and let live will become much harder.

Quite some different religion's version of God say everyone should be follow their different version of moral/law complicate the situation more.
This world is not easy, it's complicated.

The relevancy of why i mentioning crime have been explain in my post #28.

 

[Pudding]

You make some very good points.

Thank you.

I agree there's a long way to go for some.

Yes, Rome wasn't built by a day.

While for the new people, they will have to start from fresh and learn what is right what is wrong, the world is a cycle.

But I believe in humanity's goodness and that we will mature and become a peaceful world through education and through suffering.

What do you mean by "through suffering"?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thank you.


Yes, Rome wasn't built by a day.

While for the new people, they will have to start from fresh and learn what is right what is wrong, the world is a cycle.


What do you mean by "through suffering"?

Just that we develop empathy for others when we experience the same things they do.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There is disagreement in your common humanity for example the matters of whether we should accept homosexuality as legal.

Some or many of that disagreement have led to the misery of many people.

It's also true that disagreement doesn't necessarily leads to unhapiness, because we can live and let live, but again it depends on situation when things directly in relation to harm/threaten us, live and let live will become much harder.

Quite some different religion's version of God say everyone should be follow their different version of moral/law complicate the situation more.
This world is not easy, it's complicated.

The relevancy of why i mentioning crime have been explain in my post #28.

You quoted homosexuality as an example. But it doesn't matter at all. The person is what matters. We don't hate people because of their lifestyle or profession. We can still not agree with a person's lifestyle but still be good friends with them.

Basically we should look at the good in others and not judge people.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You quoted homosexuality as an example. But it doesn't matter at all. The person is what matters. We don't hate people because of their lifestyle or profession. We can still not agree with a person's lifestyle but still be good friends with them.

Basically we should look at the good in others and not judge people.

It is not a lifestyle! Okay. Im done. Continued.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is not a lifestyle! Okay. Im done. Continued.

Call it what you will my point is to treat people humanely regardless.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Call it what you will my point is to treat people humanely regardless.

You cant cant have peace in humanity if you call people one thing when they, because they know more, identify (not define) as something else. Thats like calling an African American a n* and he rather be called Black. You are talking about Who someone is not what someone does.

Some straight people, according to godly definitions, are homosexuals sometimes. If they keep acting homosexual, then people conclude they are. They are not.

Like the other thread, go by what other people think of themselves and see it through the others eyes. Thats how you build peace.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You cant cant have peace in humanity if you call people one thing when they, because they know more, identify (not define) as something else. Thats like calling an African American a n* and he rather be called Black. You are talking about Who someone is not what someone does.

Some straight people, according go godly definitions, are homosexuals sometimes. If they keep acting homosexual, then people conclude they are. They are not.

Like the other thread, go by what other people think of themselves and see it through the others eyes. Thats how you build peace.

We don't look at the outward but the inward truth. We appreciate diversity but see it as part of humanity like the flowers in a garden.

 

[Pudding]

Just that we develop empathy for others when we experience the same things they do.

Okay, thanks for explain.

You quoted homosexuality as an example. But it doesn't matter at all. The person is what matters.

I agree it doesn't matter at all, but problem is many people think it does matter because they don't like it or think it will do harm to society or some of their different version of religions' Gods say it matters.

We don't hate people because of their lifestyle or profession. We can still not agree with a person's lifestyle but still be good friends with them.

Basically we should look at the good in others and not judge people.

I haven't say otherwise so i don't know why are you saying that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We don't look at the outward but the inward truth. We appreciate diversity but see it as part of humanity like the flowers in a garden.

Who someone is is part of their inward truth. If you call or define them as X when they know more than you and identify as Y, its basically calling a African American n* because thats how you define him (example) rather calling who he is as a person and how HE wants to identify (not define) as Black.

Saying "you can define it however you choose" you basically just took away peace by accepting how you define a person rather than how they see themselves.

Thats not seeing the world in its inward truth. Its not seeing diversity. You just defined a person by what some people do rather than how they define themselves as who they are Regardless of what they do.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Can we have different beliefs and still have peace.

If everyone just followed their religion and beliefs we would have peace.

Dependant entirely on what those beliefs are.
(Not limiting that to religious beliefs)