Can we have different beliefs and still have peace.

[Unveiled Artist]

As long as we (edit) define others by our own religious, politic, and/or moral standards, we cant find peace.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Who someone is is part of their inward truth. If you call or define them as X when they know more than you and identify as Y, its basically calling a African American n* because thats how you define him (example) rather calling who he is as a person and how HE wants to identify (not define) as Black.

Saying "you can define it however you choose" you basically just took away peace by accepting how you define a person rather than how they see themselves.

Thats not seeing the world in its inward truth. Its not seeing diversity. You just defined a person by what some people do rather than how they define themselves as who they are Regardless of what they do.

It's all about acceptance. Seeing a Buddhist or a Muslim or an atheist as all worthy of equal,respect is a good thing. We don't discriminate in a negative way that's all. But we accept their diversity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, thanks for explain.


I agree it doesn't matter at all, but problem is many people think it does matter because they don't like it or think it will do harm to society or some of their different version of religions' Gods say it matters.


I haven't say otherwise so i don't know why are you saying that.

I think as humanity matures we will come to understand people come before labeling and all should be welcome and treated with respect.

 

[Pudding]

I think as humanity matures we will come to understand people come before labeling and all should be welcome and treated with respect.

Without giving a complete list about what kinds of people or what kinds of their behaviour looks like will be including in your "all" which you say should be welcome, i've no idea what "all" you're refering to.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Without giving a complete list about what kinds of people or what kinds of their behaviour looks like will be including in your "all" which you say should be welcome, i've no idea what "all" you're refering to.

Just people. All,races, nationalities, religions, cultures etc Humanity in general.

 

[Pudding]

Just people. All,races, nationalities, religions, cultures etc Humanity in general.

I've no idea what do you mean by "Humanity in general".

There're some cultures who pratice cannibalism, i'll not welcome them.
Same with some of the races/nationalities/religions/cultures who pratice misogyny, racism, slavery, or commiting genocide.

Do you welcome those races/nationalities/religions/cultures who have done the horrible actions i describe above?

You seem too convenient to often put an "all" in your statement, like how your op say "to accept all humans as equal" but later you say what you mean by all humans actually doesn't includes humans who're criminal.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's all about acceptance. Seeing a Buddhist or a Muslim or an atheist as all worthy of equal,respect is a good thing. We don't discriminate in a negative way that's all. But we accept their diversity.

You disrespect a person when you define them as something that is opposite of how they define themselves.

You discriminate by saying a person is one way when they know more about themselves and identify as another

There is no acceptance (and tolerance) in peace.

1. It goes beyond that. It is seeing it from the other person's perspective.

2. It is taking interest in how a person sees themselves and how they want others to see them

3. It means disagreeing without saying comments as "you can define it however you want" rather "we have two definitions of the same word" type of thing

4. It's watching how you say things not just what you say

5. It's addressing situations and questions that come up rather than disregarding them if they challenge your views

Peace comes with a lot of things but acceptance and tolerance (my word) doesn't figure into it. You have to go beyond that.

6. Please answer this. This will help me see where you and others come from. Only one person has answered this question but his views are so strong I can't see it in a broad perspective.

Question:

How can you define homosexuality as a lifestyle when many homosexuals do not define ourselves by what we do but WHO we are?

If you don't respect and accept our identity of who we are and keep your own definition,

that is not acceptance
that is not respect
and that is not building peace in humanity

It would be easier to say that you have a certain limitations on the respect you have rather than say you respect people but define them by your standards not theirs.

(Like a hearing person defining what Deaf culture is to a Deaf person. It's like an atheist defining what Christianity is to a Christian. It's like my trying to define who you are as a Bahai. Rather accept and respect how each person identifies themselves as Deaf, atheist, Christian, or Bahai, and, go beyond by taking interest in who that person is without defining them by my standards rather than theirs. It takes maturity, observation, and patience.)

Please read this.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I've no idea what do you mean by "Humanity in general".

There're some cultures who pratice cannibalism, i'll not welcome them.
Same with some of the races/nationalities/religions/cultures who pratice misogyny, racism, slavery, or commiting genocide.

Do you welcome those races/nationalities/religions/cultures who have done the horrible actions i describe above?

You seem too convenient to often put an "all" in your statement, like how your op say "to accept all humans as equal" but later you say what you mean by all humans actually doesn't includes humans who're criminal.

We Baha'is accept all humanity as a family. Criminal activity has nothing to do with the topic. It's a simple non discriminatory and non prejudicial belief that we accept all humanity without discrimination and treat it with dignity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You disrespect a person when you define them as something that is opposite of how they define themselves.

You discriminate by saying a person is one way when they know more about themselves and identify as another

There is no acceptance (and tolerance) in peace.

1. It goes beyond that. It is seeing it from the other person's perspective.

2. It is taking interest in how a person sees themselves and how they want others to see them

3. It means disagreeing without saying comments as "you can define it however you want" rather "we have two definitions of the same word" type of thing

4. It's watching how you say things not just what you say

5. It's addressing situations and questions that come up rather than disregarding them if they challenge your views

Peace comes with a lot of things but acceptance and tolerance (my word) doesn't figure into it. You have to go beyond that.

6. Please answer this. This will help me see where you and others come from. Only one person has answered this question but his views are so strong I can't see it in a broad perspective.

Question:

How can you define homosexuality as a lifestyle when many homosexuals do not define ourselves by what we do but WHO we are?

If you don't respect and accept our identity of who we are and keep your own definition,

that is not acceptance
that is not respect
and that is not building peace in humanity

It would be easier to say that you have a certain limitations on the respect you have rather than say you respect people but define them by your standards not theirs.

(Like a hearing person defining what Deaf culture is to a Deaf person. It's like an atheist defining what Christianity is to a Christian. It's like my trying to define who you are as a Bahai. Rather accept and respect how each person identifies themselves as Deaf, atheist, Christian, or Bahai, and, go beyond by taking interest in who that person is without defining them by my standards rather than theirs. It takes maturity, observation, and patience.)

Please read this.

Of course I read your posts. I enjoy reading them.

The Baha'i teachings go beyond designation. We accept all people regardless of their differences in belief or nationality or race.

Of course you define yourself however you want. But we accept humanity as basically one family with its diversity.

Just like you are entitled to have your belief so are we entitled to have ours.

Humanity can believe in different things even opposite and diametrically opposed things as long as it doesn't lead to them mistreating others or starting wars over it.

We can believe differently and still have peace. It's easy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Of course I read your posts. I enjoy reading them.

The Baha'i teachings go beyond designation. We accept all people regardless of their differences in belief or nationality or race.

Of course you define yourself however you want. But we accept humanity as basically one family with its diversity.

Just like you are entitled to have your belief so are we entitled to have ours.

Humanity can believe in different things even opposite and diametrically opposed things as long as it doesn't lead to them mistreating others or starting wars over it.

We can believe differently and still have peace. It's easy.

I understand that. What I read from you are very contradicting beliefs and statements.

For example, you say you accept humanity and it's diversity but...

when I replied to your comment about homosexuality not being a lifestyle, you said I can believe whatever I want to believe...

Of course this is true, but the fact is, sexual orientation is not a lifestyle. It's a fact that has nothing to do with religion. So I wanted to clarify that. If you say what a gay person does is a lifestyle, there'd be no such thing as a gay person because anyone you and I included can lead a homosexual lifestyle and we will both be homosexuals. If you believe homosexuality is a lifestyle, you are gay (if you are male) just as I would be straight if I lived a straight lifestyle.​

That's just ridiculous, in my opinion.

I have never thought a straight person lead a straight lifestyle. A person is straight regardless of who he has been with and how long. If he is attracted to females in more than just physical attraction, he is straight.

So, I was correcting your logic behind that issue. If you accept people in their diversity, and my second point, accept people for how they define themselves, then we are a step closer to peace.​

As long as we accept people based on our standards not the other persons then we are not making peace, we are being tolerant.

There is no such thing as tolerance in the definition of peace. It's better to say that you don't agree (aka accept) other people for who they are that differ from your beliefs and you respect them as human beings regardless.

However, if you are accepting other people, you accept who they say they are: You accept that a Buddhist is a Buddhist without implying a Buddhist has any relationship with the Bahai faith and any relationship and belief in any creator of any kind. When you accept someone, you accept that the definition a Christian has for god is not a "another name" for the same thing a Bahai believes. You give them their own space. Their own beliefs that is in their right for them. If you accept everyone else's beliefs and who they are as people, you will define people by how they identify themselves not how Baha'ullah and you define them.​

I honestly don't see Bahai as a religion of peace if it says interpret peace through the eyes of Baha'ullah and not a Christian, a Buddhist, a Gay person, a Republican, a .... I don't know... If you can put Baha'ullah aside and see life through these people's eyes

that

is a step towards peace.

 

[Pudding]

We Baha'is accept all humanity as a family.

Hitler is also a human inside humanity, i bet many people will not accept him as a family.

Criminal activity has nothing to do with the topic.

Excuse me, there're humans (inside humanity) who're criminal, since your topic say that you accept/believe all humanity as equal/a-family, which will also including accept/believe criminal as equal/a-family, so can you explain why criminal activity has nothing to do with the topic?

It's a simple non discriminatory and non prejudicial belief that we accept all humanity without discrimination and treat it with dignity.

Your op say - accept all humans as equal.

Then you further explain your meaning is - accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities.

Next new explanation is that - all should be welcome and treated with respect.

Continue with latest new variation of explanation - accept all humanity without discrimination and treat it with dignity and accept all humanity as a family.

I can't keep up with you if you'll keeps moving goal post, please have some consistency, thank you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hitler is also a human inside humanity, i bet many people will not accept him as a family.


Excuse me, there're humans (inside humanity) who're criminal, since your topic say that you accept/believe all humanity as equal/a-family, which will also including accept/believe criminal as equal/a-family, so can you explain why criminal activity has nothing to do with the topic?


Your op say - accept all humans as equal.

Then you further explain your meaning is - accept and tolerate the diversity of races, religions, cultures and nationalities.

Next new explanation is that - all should be welcome and treated with respect.

Continue with latest new variation of explanation - accept all humanity without discrimination and treat it with dignity and accept all humanity as a family.

I can't keep up with you if you'll keeps moving goal post, please have some consistency, thank you.

All is required here is common sense.

But you are correct that there must be a balance between showing mercy and showing justice. Both have a place. In general we love all humanity but with some we cannot show kindness.

"“The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion.”

. “Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha

http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/essential-relationships/one-human-family/

 

[Guy Threepwood]

This is one of the hot questions of the age. Throughout history our opposing beliefs have led to wars, division, hatred and prejudice - anything but peace.

However, now that we can view the entire planet as one globe and have things like the internet, are we now able to finally establish some form of peace?

What if there was only one thing you had to believe for the world to have peace. Would you embrace it? And you could get to keep your own belief as well.

If all you had to accept was that all humans are your equal could you do that? Could you accept all humanity as your equal?

Sounds easy doesn't it? But in practise we have been unable to do it without allowing our nationality, race, religion or culture to interfere causing further conflict.

So whatever our religion or as an atheist or any other position are we aware we might be erecting barriers unknowingly between us and our fellow man?

Isn't peace up to all of us and not just the politicians? Shouldn't our attitude be one of unconditional acceptance of one another if we really want peace? We don't have to always agree but shouldn't we be tolerant?

I'd say the key to coexisting with different beliefs, is that we simply acknowledge our own beliefs as such. aka faith. That's the ultimate tolerant, humble, understanding position, that we might be wrong.

Blind faith is faith which does not recognize itself. Atheist belief for example, and one reason atheist regimes like USSR and N Korea are so brutal, why Richard Dawkins is always so angry- they consider their beliefs as fact, and those who do not share them as 'deniers of fact' rather than just people who draw different logical conclusions from the same evidence.

This does happen in some religions also, where violence erupts, faith has usually been abandoned

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'd say the key to coexisting with different beliefs, is that we simply acknowledge our own beliefs as such. aka faith. That's the ultimate tolerant, humble, understanding position, that we might be wrong.

Blind faith is faith which does not recognize itself. Atheist belief for example, and one reason atheist regimes like USSR and N Korea are so brutal, why Richard Dawkins is always so angry- they consider their beliefs as fact, and those who do not share them as 'deniers of fact' rather than just people who draw different logical conclusions from the same evidence.

This does happen in some religions also, where violence erupts, faith has usually been abandoned

Yes I agree. But I think that what's important is our deeds, how we treat others no matter what we believe.

Unfortunately people do very little introspection or self questioning and tend to assume they are always right instead of adopting a humble posture of learning. If we looked more at our own faults and not the faults of others this would be a much better world.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Yes I agree. But I think that what's important is our deeds, how we treat others no matter what we believe.

Unfortunately people do very little introspection or self questioning and tend to assume they are always right instead of adopting a humble posture of learning. If we looked more at our own faults and not the faults of others this would be a much better world.

Agree there, it's a pretty strong theme in the Bible, and something some take somewhat for granted today as 'natural instinct' or a natural product of organized society- but it clearly is not, and was a pretty novel concept when introduced..

The wise man knows himself to be a fool!

 

[loverofhumanity]

Agree there, it's a pretty strong theme in the Bible, and something some take somewhat for granted today as 'natural instinct' or a natural product of organized society- but it clearly is not, and was a pretty novel concept when introduced..

The wise man knows himself to be a fool!

I love that about the wise man! I always consider my ignorance. Whenever someone asks a question or makes a comment I look at my ignorance and say 'oh no' why do I have to face my ignorance almost every second?

We are literally surrounded by truth but we just shut ourselves out from it because we get stuck on labels.

We are a collective (not that much unlike the Borg Ha! Ha!) and when we pool our knowledge is when humanity is at its best. When we say I know and you are stupid all we do is start never ending wars. The ego is a trap!!!

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Humanity can believe in different things even opposite and diametrically opposed things as long as it doesn't lead to them mistreating others or starting wars over it.

We can believe differently and still have peace. It's easy.

But if I believe that you as a man have committed a capital offence by having sexual relations with another man (i.e. are a criminal), and you believe otherwise, how can we still have peace? I don't see that as easy at all!

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I love that about the wise man! I always consider my ignorance. Whenever someone asks a question or makes a comment I look at my ignorance and say 'oh no' why do I have to face my ignorance almost every second?

We are literally surrounded by truth but we just shut ourselves out from it because we get stuck on labels.

We are a collective (not that much unlike the Borg Ha! Ha!) and when we pool our knowledge is when humanity is at its best. When we say I know and you are stupid all we do is start never ending wars. The ego is a trap!!!

Yes it's always worth reminding ourselves we are ignorant about way more things than not, and we make poor decisions all the time- easier said than done of course, being right on everything is always tempting, though my wife helps out with this quite a bit!

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes it's always worth reminding ourselves we are ignorant about way more things than not, and we make poor decisions all the time- easier said than done of course, being right on everything is always tempting, though my wife helps out with this quite a bit!

My wife is always telling me I'm wrong so I get a lot of handy reminders!!

 

[loverofhumanity]

But if I believe that you as a man have committed a capital offence by having sexual relations with another man (i.e. are a criminal), and you believe otherwise, how can we still have peace? I don't see that as easy at all!

It's difficult. Not easy. But society is gradually rejecting all forms of mistreatment, persecution and discrimination however more needs to done to educate people.