Can we have different beliefs and still have peace.

[jeager106]

Can we have different beliefs and still have peace?

No.
Not as long as we experience terror world wide in the name
of a god and/or religious extremism.
Extremists murder each and every day somewhere in this world.
Murders in the name of some "god" have and will happen in the
U.S.

Killed 484 , injured 1469, in just ONE week world wide in the name
of some "god".
Perhaps some don't watch, listen to, or read, the news??????

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It's difficult. Not easy. But society is gradually rejecting all forms of mistreatment, persecution and discrimination however more needs to done to educate people.

I don't think you quite understand what I am saying here. If it's a fundamental belief of mine that engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a capital offence, how can I keep that belief and be at peace with you? And perhaps in particular, vice versa.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't think you quite understand what I am saying here. If it's a fundamental belief of mine that engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a capital offence, how can I keep that belief and be at peace with you? And perhaps in particular, vice versa.

If one acted on that thought and mistreated others that would be unjust and against peace.

But if one also had this attitude then peace is very likely.

"To look always at the good and not at the bad. If a man has ten good qualities and one bad one, look at the ten and forget the one. And if a man has ten bad qualities and one good one, to look at the one and forget the ten." Bahá'í Writings

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If one acted on that thought and mistreated others that would be unjust and against peace.

But if one also had this attitude then peace is very likely.

"To look always at the good and not at the bad. If a man has ten good qualities and one bad one, look at the ten and forget the one. And if a man has ten bad qualities and one good one, to look at the one and forget the ten." Bahá'í Writings

But you said in your OP:

What if there was only one thing you had to believe for the world to have peace. Would you embrace it? And you could get to keep your own belief as well.

It now looks like you are moving the goalposts. Because you are now saying I don't get to keep my fundamental belief that engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a capital offence (that should be punished as a capital offence). It is your belief that if one acted on that thought, one would be mistreating others and acting unjustly and against peace, not mine. Mine is that one is not carrying out God's law if one doesn't believe that this is a capital offence (and one doesn't act upon it, after following due legal process), and that I am in a fundamental way not keeping my beliefs if I do not carry out (or at least believe in the necessity of carrying out) God's law. So you see, I'm not sure it is quite as simple as 'you could get to keep your own belief as well.'

[just to clarify, I am following a line of reasoning here that is most certainly a common belief amongst some religious adherents; it is not my belief that engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a capital offence]

 

[loverofhumanity]

But you said in your OP:



It now looks like you are moving the goalposts. Because you are now saying I don't get to keep my fundamental belief that engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a capital offence (that should be punished as a capital offence). It is your belief that if one acted on that thought, one would be mistreating others and acting unjustly and against peace, not mine. Mine is that one is not carrying out God's law if one doesn't believe that this is a capital offence (and one doesn't act upon it, after following due legal process), and that I am in a fundamental way not keeping my beliefs if I do not carry out (or at least believe in the necessity of carrying out) God's law. So you see, I'm not sure it is quite as simple as 'you could get to keep your own belief as well.'

[just to clarify, I am following a line of reasoning here that is most certainly a common belief amongst some religious adherents; it is not my belief that engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a capital offence]

Well people need to be constantly educated not to discriminate. Before blacks couldn't vote, now they get elected as president but there's still a long way to go to create peace between the races. However, progress has been made.

People have extreme views and can't be changed overnight but dicier will and us maturing. Pressure is continually brought on countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia who execute homosexuals. It's not an offense punishable by death we know that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity I'm being honest here but blunt. I never really get to far in these conversations and I think maybe you can break the Genius on that.

How does a Bahai find peace and see diversity in other faiths when he or she only sees peace through the eyes of Bahaullah and the creator, not peace as defined by the atheist, Christian, Pagan, Santero, or Spiritualist (of many examples)?

Why doesn't Bahai accept the peace of these people in their own right without interpreting and defining their peace through the eyes of the Bahai, Bahaullauh, or creator?

A Christian sees peace and love in Christ. Without Christ, there is no peace and love. If a Bahai finds peace and love in Christ, that would make him a Christian. If Christ did not exist, and you accepted Christ as a source of peace and love by another name, would there still be peace and love given Christ doesn't exist or is the Bahai definition of peace and love not dependent on the other founders of other religions?

A Bahai sees Christ as a manifestation of Bahuallah, right? Christians do not see Christ this way. Why not go off of the Christian's point of view rather than the Bahai if a Bahai accepts diversity and acceptance of other faiths by another name?

How does a Bahai define peace among diversity if that peace is seen through the eyes of one not the eyes of many in their own right?

 

[loverofhumanity]

@loverofhumanity I'm being honest here but blunt. I never really get to far in these conversations and I think maybe you can break the Genius on that.

How does a Bahai find peace and see diversity in other faiths when he or she only sees peace through the eyes of Bahaullah and the creator, not peace as defined by the atheist, Christian, Pagan, Santero, or Spiritualist (of many examples)?

Why doesn't Bahai accept the peace of these people in their own right without interpreting and defining their peace through the eyes of the Bahai, Bahaullauh, or creator?

A Christian sees peace and love in Christ. Without Christ, there is no peace and love. If a Bahai finds peace and love in Christ, that would make him a Christian. If Christ did not exist, and you accepted Christ as a source of peace and love by another name, would there still be peace and love given Christ doesn't exist or is the Bahai definition of peace and love not dependent on the other founders of other religions?

A Bahai sees Christ as a manifestation of Bahuallah, right? Christians do not see Christ this way. Why not go off of the Christian's point of view rather than the Bahai if a Bahai accepts diversity and acceptance of other faiths by another name?

How does a Bahai define peace among diversity if that peace is seen through the eyes of one not the eyes of many in their own right?

Hi Carlita. I'm just so bad at expressing myself so please bear with me but I'll give it a go and just speak from my heart.


Im not just a Baha'i I am a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Jew, a Zoroastrian, a Christian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Babi and a Baha'i and there is no inner conflict whatsoever because truth is one.

It was through reading Baha'u'llah's Words that I fell in love with all the Manifestations or Educators and Their teachings and have their Holy Books and defend them and learn from them. I fell in love with Buddha and His Teachings, I fell in love with Christ and the Gospels and Judaism and the Torah and Muhammad and the Quran. Krishna and the Gita. Zoroaster and the Avesta.

I fell in love with all the truth they teach and so I enter the Pagoda or Mosque or church or synagogue and feel surrounded by a wonderful mystical truth that makes me feel so happy and contented.

At one point, after reading the Writings of Baha'u'llah, I fell in love with all truth. I became a lover of the light within not just the lamp.

When I looked closely at the light of truth that shone in Buddha, the same light I found shone in Christ and Muhammad and Moses and Baha'u'llah and Krishna.

By looking at the inner reality, the inner truth, I discovered These Manifestations are all but 'expressions of one reality, one truth.

I am a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Jew, a Zoroastrian, a Christian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Babi and a Baha'i and there is no inner conflict whatsoever because truth is one.

They are all right, they are all truth.

Baha'u'llah guided me to recognize the truth in all the Buddhas, all the Manifestations and Prophets, Messiahs, Saviours or whichever outward designation you prefer.

So I love all the religions and their Founders and Holy Scriptures and consider myself a follower of them all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's beautiful.

@loverofhumanity Here is a shorter version. I am going to use the Deaf community example as my point. Follow me.

Like the Deaf community example. I can be and see myself a part of the Deaf Community all I want. I can even call myself Deaf even though it's an insult and inappropriate. Just like you call yourself all these religious names and identify with each of these religions that are not yours.

However, because the very fact I am not Deaf, Hard of Hearing, nor CODA, I am not part of Deaf culture and I am not Deaf (with a upper case D). I have to accept that; and, with that acceptance doesn't mean I don't connect with the community, it means I do not overstep my boundaries and make myself a part of the community in the manner of taking their language, their art, and their history and making it my own.​

Compared and contrast with

Like how you see yourself as other religious for example. You can be and see yourself a part of the Christian, Muslim, Pagan, etc community all you want. You can even call yourself Christian, Muslim, Pagan, etc even though it's an insult and inappropriate.

However, because the very fact you are not Christian, Muslim, and Pagan etc by their eyes, you are not a part of their religion. You have to accept that; and, with that acceptance doesn't mean you don't connect with each religion. It means you do not overstep their boundaries and make yourself a part of the community in the manner of taking their beliefs, their sacred text, and their history and making it my own.​

Without that level of respect, that is not a step towards peace. If you take Bahaullauh out and see it from an actual Christian, Muslim, and Pagan, etc perspective (the people), you will see you are not part of that group.

One more example, if that doesn't make sense. If you are Christian, then you believe in the Eucharist (that's how I define Christian since it's part Roman not just Hebrew).

The Church would allow you to take the Eucharist because as a Christian you would already been baptized, gone to confession, and said confirmation that you are Christian.

You would see jesus as your only source of inspiration and knowledge and not use Bahaullauh as a source of it.

You would be allowed to take communion and be part of The Body of Christ.

You cannot.

By that very fact, you cannot call yourself Catholic (if you haven't been confirmed before). If you haven't gave yourself to Allah, said the act of confirmation, believe Muhammad is the only last prophet, and the Quran as the only source that is the creator's word, you are not Muslim.

Anyway, see it from their point of view not yours. If they accept you as a Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, so be. Buddhism it depends on the sect. Nichiren Buddhist would deny you as a Buddhist. Christian and Muslim are pretty clear cut in who is Christian and Muslim and who is not.​

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thank you. That is beautiful.

Basically my point is, to try and make it short, is a Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Lukumi, et cetera would not see Bahai as a part of their faith. As such, regardless of how much you connect with their faith, unless they connect with you, you can't be Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Lukumi, etc. You can say you are a Christian, but because Christianity denies that you are (you are not part of their 'space'), you are not Christian.

Take DIRs for example. If you identify as Christian and Bahai, you should be able to post in all DIR threads that have educators that are manifestations of Bahaulluah. Since they don't believe that, it's only your belief but without it being theirs, your side is a matter of belief not a matter of fact. See it from their view not yours.

Identity is like a marriage. If I wanted to identify with Christianity as a Pagan Spiritualist, I'd have to drop my Pagan beliefs and see jesus as my lord and savior. Not as a educator. Not as a prophet. Not as a manifestation. Not as a human separate from his father. I have to see jesus how he (scripture dictates) he wants to be seen. It's not about me.

Regardless of how you see it, how Christianity is set up, there is no room for Bahaullauh as anyone other than another sinful person.

Like the Deaf community example. I can be and see myself a part of the Deaf Community all I want. I can even call myself Deaf even though it's an insult and inappropriate. Just like you call yourself all these religious names and identify with each of these religions that are not yours.

However, because the very fact I am not Deaf, Hard of Hearing, nor CODA, I am not part of Deaf culture and I am not Deaf (with a upper case D). I have to accept that; and, with that acceptance doesn't mean I don't connect with the community, it means I do not overstep my boundaries and make myself a part of the community in the manner of taking their language, their art, and their history and making it my own.​

How can you call yourself all of these religions when the religious and their scripture do not support Bahaulluah and what Bahai's belief?

How can you connect with a Pagan and a Christian who in the former depending has educators just as the latter if they don't connect with you?

By what right do you have to claim to be part of a "space" that it not yours not just from sacred texts but by the people who make that text alive given like minds and like practices?

Because we identify with both stations of the Educators whereas their followers only identify with the Station of distinction mentioned below and there is a link with all their scriptures which I will post below in summary form.

The Station of Oneness of all the Educators

“Consider the sun. Were it to say now, “I am the sun of yesterday,” it would speak the truth. And should it, bearing the sequence of time in mind, claim to be other than that sun, it still would speak the truth. In like manner, if it be said that all the days are but one and the same, it is correct and true. And if it be said, with respect to their particular names and designations, that they differ, that again is true. For though they are the same, yet one doth recognize in each a separate designation, a specific attribute, a particular character. Conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various Manifestations of holiness,

If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor!

The Station of Distinction of the Educators

The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission.

Bahá’u’lláh

 

[loverofhumanity]

The scriptural links are very strong.

We believe there is a connection between Baha'u'llah and all the major Faiths in that He is mentioned in all their prophecies so He is an integral part of their religion that they have not as of yet accepted.

So for example, by accepting Baha'u'llah as the return of Christ, I am a true Christian because I have accepted both the first and second Coming of Christ. True Christians are expected to accept both comings not only one so who is the true Christian? One cannot say they are a Christian and deny Christ when He returns.

“To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the "Everlasting Father," the "Lord of Hosts" come down "with ten thousands of saints"; to Christendom Christ returned "in the glory of the Father," to Shí'ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the "Spirit of God" (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.

In the name He bore He combined those of the Imám Husayn, the most illustrious of the successors of the Apostle of God—the brightest "star" shining in the "crown" mentioned in the Revelation of St. John—and of the Imám 'Alí, the Commander of the Faithful, the second of the two "witnesses" extolled in that same Book”

Effendi, Shoghi. “God Passes By.”

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We believe there is a connection between Baha'u'llah and all the major Faiths in that He is mentioned in all their prophecies so He is an integral part of their religion that they have not as of yet accepted.

I read what you posted; and, I will re-read it again for more in-depth reply later. My point, though, is that you cannot have a connection with other faiths when they don't have a connection with you. To have a connection and incorporate other faiths into your own means you have to know the other faiths and know how their scripture and the religious accepts you into their community and beliefs.

Bahaullah is not part of the Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Pagan, Jewish, Lukumi, etc faiths.

Ask a Christian, a Buddhist (say Ten Tai Buddhist), Hindu, Muslim, or Pagan if Bahaullah is part of their faith just by another name.

If they so no, there is no connection. How can according to them you be part of their faith if you only see the connection through the eyes of Bah' not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim?

Answer from their perspective not your own and not Baha'ullah.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I read what you posted; and, I will re-read it again for more in-depth reply later. My point, though, is that you cannot have a connection with other faiths when they don't have a connection with you. To have a connection and incorporate other faiths into your own means you have to know the other faiths and know how their scripture and the religious accepts you into their community and beliefs.

Bahaullah is not part of the Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Pagan, Jewish, Lukumi, etc faiths.

Ask a Christian, a Buddhist (say Ten Tai Buddhist), Hindu, Muslim, or Pagan if Bahaullah is part of their faith just by another name.

If they so no, there is no connection. How can according to them you be part of their faith if you only see the connection through the eyes of Bah' not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim?

Answer from their perspective not your own and not Baha'ullah.

One example is the Jews expectation of the Messiah. Christ claimed to be that Messiah and Christians are those people who accept that He is the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament.

So Christianity is joined with Judaism through Christ. Why do you think Christians incorporate the Old Testament of the Jews into their own Gospels and call it the Bible?

The Torah is not Christian it is Jewish. But because Jesus is considered by Christians to be the Promised Messiah of Judaism they therefore establish the link and see them as one and the same Bible.

But Jews do not accept that Jesus is the Messiah. So Christians should only follow the Gospels? Not the Bible? But they see Christ as the fulfillment of the Torah just like Baha'is see Baha'u'llah as the Promised One of all Faiths and no one says they can't do that but the Jews.

So when you acknowledge Christianity you are also acknowledging Judaism although strictly speaking they are two separate Revelations, one to Moses and the other to Christ.

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Jesus)

Baha'u'llah is making the same claim as Christ did about Moses except He is saying He is the Promised One of all the Faiths foretold in their prophecies.

There are prophecies in all the major religions regarding a Promised One to come. They are there if you read them. This Promise is part of every sacred scripture.

So tell me then. Are all these religions to disregard the prophecies in their own Holy Books when they are part of their own scripture?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm.

So Christianity is joined with Judaism through Christ. Why do you think Christians incorporate the Old Testament of the Jews into their own Gospels and call it the Bible?

Christianity is joined with Judaism, as so they claim. However, that is not the core of their practice. So they are, technically, not connected to Judaism. They are not Jews they are Gentiles. The Jews do not go by the message of Jesus Christ. They are not joined unless, as I say, both parties agree on the same terms. They do not. Christians (and Bahai) can believe whatever they want (no offense) but the very fact Jews do not see the same thing as Christians and Bahai makes me side with the Jews since Judaism is older than Christianity.

The Torah is not Christian it is Jewish. But because Jesus is considered by Christians to be the Promised Messiah of Judaism they therefore establish the link and see them as one and the same Bible.

Christians feel that way. In order for it to be a union between the two, the Jews have to feel that way too. They don't. Big reason is Jews feel the Messiah hasn't came. Christians feel he has. There is no union at the core.

But Jews do not accept that Jesus is the Messiah.

So Christians should only follow the Gospels? Not the Bible?

But they see Christ as the fulfillment of the Torah just like Baha'is see Baha'u'llah as the Promised One of all Faiths and no one says they can't do that but the Jews.

There was one Jew that told me here years ago, why would the Jews think that they (the Jews) have the same Torah as Christians. I would highly assume the Jews know more than me on that regards.

Christians only accept the New Testament as their focus. If they went off of the OT, they would be following the same laws the Jews try and follow today. They don't. Christians feel that Jesus fulfilled the OT laws so they do not need to follow them anymore. So no, they are not following the Bible. They are following the apostles not christ and not god.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament (which is more than the five books of the Bible) not the Torah, if the Torah in Hebrew is indeed separate from the five books of the Christian Bible. Remember, the Church put the Bible together and deemed what's inspired and what's not. Judaism has nothing to do with the Church and her interpretation of inspired text. They feel their text is inspired directly from god himself.

The last bold point, and because the Jews do not see it that way, the Bahai's are taking claims to a religion that its followers do not support. So it's not a unity between the two.

Since Bahaullauh is not part of Jewish scripture, Bahai are believing in something that the Jews do not teach themselves. While we are free to believe as we choose, but the fact is, everyone has a right to their own faith and to those who take up that faith takes it up as a whole and that faith's interpretation of that scripture. Interpreting Jewish scripture through Bahai's eyes is really stealing without full practice and following of what it means to be a practicing Jew.

So, if you are a Christian, you will not see Bahuallah as in any way part of your walk with Christ. If you are a Jew, Jesus would not be seen as the Messiah. If you are Muslim, you would not see Jesus as god. And so on and so forth.

Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Jesus)

Yes, and the prophets in The Bible are not Baha'ullah so Jesus is talking about the prophets in the OT not prophets such as John Smith and Baha'ullah who is not part of the Bible.

Baha'u'llah is making the same claim as Christ did about Moses except He is saying He is the Promised One of all the Faiths foretold in their prophecies.

The problem is not the Bahai belief. Beliefs are a matter of personal preference. What I'm saying is according to Christians, that is, well, wrong. Bahaullah has no place in the Christian faith according to Christians, The Church, and The Bible.

If you accept and understand these things, that's a step closer to peace. If you do not give Christians their own "DIR" how can peace happen if you're seeing it under the eyes of your faith and not theirs?

There are prophecies in all the major religions regarding a Promised One to come. They are there if you read them. This Promise is part of every sacred scripture.

The Promised One in the Bahai faith has no place in the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faith. The prophecies were set by Moses, Joshua, (thinking of my names), Christ, the Apostles, but not one in the Bible mentions Bahaullauh. Not in the Quran, unless someone corrects me, and most certainly not in the Torah or Christian OT.

Remember, to have a connection the other party has to agree with you too.

So tell me then. Are all these religions to disregard the prophecies in their own Holy Books when they are part of their own scripture?

No. Each religion has their own space. Their own DIR (in the general sense of the word not RF definition). They have their own prophecies. The culture that makes up their faith are severely different. The language is different. Their practices are different. Bahaullah has no place in it.

Respect people for their differences by not incorporating their teachings into your own. Bahaullah is not the Promised One in Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, and Jewish beliefs. Regardless of what Bah' says, it is not true.

I personally believe that god is life. I personally believe that we cannot know about ourselves unless we know our ancestors and commune with them. I personally believe that without the Law of The Buddha we would not understand the nature of life and death.

I believe Christianity teaches this insofar that they do through the passion of Christ. However, I also believe that their teachings are not my teachings nor part of my faith because The Buddha does not agree that human sacrifice leads to understanding of life and death.

I respect their belief. I understand it. It gives me some insight to my own given my experiences. It is not a part of my faith.

Bahai is saying that Christianity (etc) is a part of their faith. To a Christian, that's wrong. If Bahai's do not know this, there will be no peace between the two parties.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We believe there is a connection between Baha'u'llah and all the major Faiths in that He is mentioned in all their prophecies so He is an integral part of their religion that they have not as of yet accepted

Can we have different beliefs and still have peace?

This is the problem right here in bold. If you do not respect and accept each religion's beliefs and claims as their own right without saying they have not accepted what you believe, that is not a step towards having peace among different beliefs.

That is making all believes into a one-party system. That one party is the Bahai faith. It's very discriminating and prevents religions to thrive healthy among others. Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc accept (and hopefully respect) other people and their faiths. They may be evangelical but they do know there is a boundary between their faith and another. A christian will not say Muhammad is a way to god. A Jew won't say Jesus is the Messiah.

Bah' is not an integral part of Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, etc faiths. Once you understand it from their view then you are a step closer to peace.​

So for example, by accepting Baha'u'llah as the return of Christ, I am a true Christian because I have accepted both the first and second Coming of Christ. True Christians are expected to accept both comings not only one so who is the true Christian? One cannot say they are a Christian and deny Christ when He returns.

You are a Christian if you have a relationship with Christ and his father and no other person. Not Bahaullauh, not John Smith, not Peter, and not, I don't know, Sam.

I believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ
I believe in the sacraments of the Catholic Church
I believe that Christ is in spirit and by being baptized, he is part of me like my ancestors and all humanity

I believe these things and I am not Christian because to be Christian one must have an on-going relationship with Christ.

One must believe that Christ died and resurrected and will return. One must believe that Jesus is god (in some denomi) or he is perfect and divine (in others). One must believe in Jesus. You cannot believe in Bahaullah and see christ in his view if you want to be Christian.

“To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the "Everlasting Father," the "Lord of Hosts" come down "with ten thousands of saints"; to Christendom Christ returned "in the glory of the Father," to Shí'ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the "Spirit of God" (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.

Where is that in the Bible? That Christ and his father has anything to do with other faiths and lords?

In the name He bore He combined those of the Imám Husayn, the most illustrious of the successors of the Apostle of God—the brightest "star" shining in the "crown" mentioned in the Revelation of St. John—and of the Imám 'Alí, the Commander of the Faithful, the second of the two "witnesses" extolled in that same Book”

Effendi, Shoghi. “God Passes By.”

Christianity isn't a Indian faith. It's Hebrew and Roman. These passages are beautiful but they cannot define the Christian faith and bible.

That's where you're getting technically wrong. Immoral? It depends on the belief. It sounds healthy, just historically and scriptural (of all sacred text) wrong.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Can we have different beliefs and still have peace?

This is the problem right here in bold. If you do not respect and accept each religion's beliefs and claims as their own right without saying they have not accepted what you believe, that is not a step towards having peace among different beliefs.

That is making all believes into a one-party system. That one party is the Bahai faith. It's very discriminating and prevents religions to thrive healthy among others. Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc accept (and hopefully respect) other people and their faiths. They may be evangelical but they do know there is a boundary between their faith and another. A christian will not say Muhammad is a way to god. A Jew won't say Jesus is the Messiah.

Bah' is not an integral part of Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, etc faiths. Once you understand it from their view then you are a step closer to peace.​

You are a Christian if you have a relationship with Christ and his father and no other person. Not Bahaullauh, not John Smith, not Peter, and not, I don't know, Sam.

I believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ
I believe in the sacraments of the Catholic Church
I believe that Christ is in spirit and by being baptized, he is part of me like my ancestors and all humanity

I believe these things and I am not Christian because to be Christian one must have an on-going relationship with Christ.

One must believe that Christ died and resurrected and will return. One must believe that Jesus is god (in some denomi) or he is perfect and divine (in others). One must believe in Jesus. You cannot believe in Bahaullah and see christ in his view if you want to be Christian.


Where is that in the Bible? That Christ and his father has anything to do with other faiths and lords?


Christianity isn't a Indian faith. It's Hebrew and Roman. These passages are beautiful but they cannot define the Christian faith and bible.

That's where you're getting technically wrong. Immoral? It depends on the belief. It sounds healthy, just historically and scriptural (of all sacred text) wrong.

Truth is one. Of course I have a personal relationship with Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and all the Teachers. I read Their scriptures and I find They all teach truth so I accept Them all.

I can have more than one Friend. I'm not confined to only accept one Friend.

Man says I must do this and do that but I don't follow man I follow truth.

People can believe that only their Teacher or Messiah is true but I have found Them all to be true and love and revere Them all.

I believe that Jesus died, was resurrected and in His return. I believe He was the Son of God.

Jesus taught to love one another I accept that.

Moses brought the Ten Commandments they are truth.

Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Zoroaster all brought truth and we accept all truth not just some of it.

So are you saying that I must register under their organizations to be considered a follower of any religion?

There are over 30,000 sects of Christianity do I have to register with them all to be considered Christian? No I accept Christ and His Teachings. I don't need approval of others to believe in Christ.

Same with Buddhism Theravada or Mayahana? Islam - Sunni or Shia?

By fully accepting the Founders and Their Holy Scriptures I am already a believer and follower of all Faiths no matter what others may say.

Exclusiveness is taught by man not the Teachers or Prophets. That's a man made concept. All Faiths are but the expressions of the same Reality.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hmm.


Christianity is joined with Judaism, as so they claim. However, that is not the core of their practice. So they are, technically, not connected to Judaism. They are not Jews they are Gentiles. The Jews do not go by the message of Jesus Christ. They are not joined unless, as I say, both parties agree on the same terms. They do not. Christians (and Bahai) can believe whatever they want (no offense) but the very fact Jews do not see the same thing as Christians and Bahai makes me side with the Jews since Judaism is older than Christianity.



Christians feel that way. In order for it to be a union between the two, the Jews have to feel that way too. They don't. Big reason is Jews feel the Messiah hasn't came. Christians feel he has. There is no union at the core.



There was one Jew that told me here years ago, why would the Jews think that they (the Jews) have the same Torah as Christians. I would highly assume the Jews know more than me on that regards.

Christians only accept the New Testament as their focus. If they went off of the OT, they would be following the same laws the Jews try and follow today. They don't. Christians feel that Jesus fulfilled the OT laws so they do not need to follow them anymore. So no, they are not following the Bible. They are following the apostles not christ and not god.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament (which is more than the five books of the Bible) not the Torah, if the Torah in Hebrew is indeed separate from the five books of the Christian Bible. Remember, the Church put the Bible together and deemed what's inspired and what's not. Judaism has nothing to do with the Church and her interpretation of inspired text. They feel their text is inspired directly from god himself.

The last bold point, and because the Jews do not see it that way, the Bahai's are taking claims to a religion that its followers do not support. So it's not a unity between the two.

Since Bahaullauh is not part of Jewish scripture, Bahai are believing in something that the Jews do not teach themselves. While we are free to believe as we choose, but the fact is, everyone has a right to their own faith and to those who take up that faith takes it up as a whole and that faith's interpretation of that scripture. Interpreting Jewish scripture through Bahai's eyes is really stealing without full practice and following of what it means to be a practicing Jew.

So, if you are a Christian, you will not see Bahuallah as in any way part of your walk with Christ. If you are a Jew, Jesus would not be seen as the Messiah. If you are Muslim, you would not see Jesus as god. And so on and so forth.



Yes, and the prophets in The Bible are not Baha'ullah so Jesus is talking about the prophets in the OT not prophets such as John Smith and Baha'ullah who is not part of the Bible.



The problem is not the Bahai belief. Beliefs are a matter of personal preference. What I'm saying is according to Christians, that is, well, wrong. Bahaullah has no place in the Christian faith according to Christians, The Church, and The Bible.

If you accept and understand these things, that's a step closer to peace. If you do not give Christians their own "DIR" how can peace happen if you're seeing it under the eyes of your faith and not theirs?



The Promised One in the Bahai faith has no place in the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faith. The prophecies were set by Moses, Joshua, (thinking of my names), Christ, the Apostles, but not one in the Bible mentions Bahaullauh. Not in the Quran, unless someone corrects me, and most certainly not in the Torah or Christian OT.

Remember, to have a connection the other party has to agree with you too.



No. Each religion has their own space. Their own DIR (in the general sense of the word not RF definition). They have their own prophecies. The culture that makes up their faith are severely different. The language is different. Their practices are different. Bahaullah has no place in it.

Respect people for their differences by not incorporating their teachings into your own. Bahaullah is not the Promised One in Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, and Jewish beliefs. Regardless of what Bah' says, it is not true.

I personally believe that god is life. I personally believe that we cannot know about ourselves unless we know our ancestors and commune with them. I personally believe that without the Law of The Buddha we would not understand the nature of life and death.

I believe Christianity teaches this insofar that they do through the passion of Christ. However, I also believe that their teachings are not my teachings nor part of my faith because The Buddha does not agree that human sacrifice leads to understanding of life and death.

I respect their belief. I understand it. It gives me some insight to my own given my experiences. It is not a part of my faith.

Bahai is saying that Christianity (etc) is a part of their faith. To a Christian, that's wrong. If Bahai's do not know this, there will be no peace between the two parties.

Yes you are right. Although we accept their Founders and Holy Books they still see us as not part of them. But people once believed the world was flat so humanity changes and learns.

Who knows what the future will bring?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I separated the quotes so I can read this better

Truth is one. Of course I have a personal relationship with Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and all the Teachers. I read Their scriptures and I find They all teach truth so I accept Them all.

If you accept Jesus, you cannot accept Buddha, Krishna, and other teachers. There is no "multiple truths is one" in Christianity as in Bahai. You have to drop all the others and only believe in Christ to be Christian.
​

It has nothing to do with reading and accepting their scriptures. It has nothing to do with being Jesus' friend. Jesus may not be my friend according to scripture (if you're not with me you're against me) type of thing, but I have no beef with him. That does not make me Christian just, well, displaying unconditional love. I think you're mixing the two.

I can have more than one Friend. I'm not confined to only accept one Friend.

Unfortunately, Christianity and most likely Muslim does not share your views. That's why you can be a friend to them but true friendship means they are a friend to you as well. Hence relation-ship.​

Your views are perfectly healthy. I'm not saying you are wrong in morals and beliefs. Anyone can take up morals and beliefs. I am a Spiritualist and a lot of my morals are Buddhist as well. However, until I say "I do" I am not Buddhist. Likewise, until you take up the Christian practice and live in Christ, die in Christ, and resurrected in Christ and believe Christ is more than your friend, you are not Christian. Christianity is a clear cut religion. You can't see it from a Bahai perspective. You can't believe in Baha'ullah. You can't see Christianity through Bahai eyes. That is not Christianity.

Man says I must do this and do that but I don't follow man I follow truth.

"Man" is not an awful word. You are a man. Baha'ullah is a man. Christ is a man. The Buddha Gautama is a man. You are following man beliefs and their interpretations of truth. If not, you would not be Bahai.

In my opinion, Truth is not Bahai, Christian, Pagan, Muslim, or so have you. Not because they are man beliefs. I dont believe in a creator; so, I put a lot of value in beliefs of man since I am a wo/man.

The Buddha did not teach come to him to find truth. He said the truth is within ourselves. Christ, on the other hand, taught truth is of his father through him. Muslim and Jews feel truth is directly from the creator. Bahai believe truth is from all educators. Christ, Muslim, and Jews don't teach that; so, the Bahai view is wrong from their perspective. That is how you view this-their perspective not your own.​

People can believe that only their Teacher or Messiah is true but I have found Them all to be true and love and revere Them all.

​

That is your right to believe that. By their scripture, that is false. I don't understand why you do not accept the truth of their own teachings since they know more about their own belief than you do.

I believe that Jesus died, was resurrected and in His return. I believe He was the Son of God.

​

However, you say you are Bahai. You can't be Christian and Bahai at the same time. Christians don't accept dual relationship with both Bahaullauh and Christ. So you have to respect the Christian view not just your own. How? Either follow Christ and his father only or follow Bahaullauh and view christ as your friend not your savior.

Jesus taught to love one another I accept that.

All educators I know of not just Christian, Jew, and Muslim teach love. That does not mean you are Christian. It just means you accept the result of Christian values rather than the practice and value itself.

Moses brought the Ten Commandments they are truth.

​

How so? You should only believe in god and him only. Baha'ullah is not the way to truth nor interpretation of truth according to scripture.

Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Zoroaster all brought truth and we accept all truth not just some of it.

You can't just believe in the result of the truth (love, compassion, etc) you have to believe, in Jesus. That means you disregard Muhammad, Krishna, and Zoraster.

You have to believe only the creator. Not Christ, not Krishna, not Zoraster.

I don't know about Zoraster but Christ and Muhammad is not in the Hindu belief.

​

It's not enough to believe in the results of their message. You have to live it and believe in it. By doing so, you can't be Muslim and Christian at the same time. The practice is the truth not just the message.

So are you saying that I must register under their organizations to be considered a follower of any religion?

I wouldn't put it that way. To be Catholic, yes, you have to take the sacraments. To be Baptist, yes, you have to be baptized and say the act of contrition. To be Buddhist, yes, you have to follow the practice according to the sect and school you choose. Buddhism isn't one school.

Other religions are not like Bahai. They have requirements in ways you follow their faith. If you are not praying five times a day, how can you consider yourself a practicing Muslim. If you are not taking the Eucharist, how can you consider yourself a practicing Christian/Catholic? If you are Baptist (assuming you have not been baptized) how can you follow the faith if you havent been baptized in Christ?

So, it's better to say that you follow the morals and message of these given faiths. It is inappropriate to call yourself Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc because that is not the faith you adhere to. You are a Bahai and because of that, according to Christianity and Islam, you can't be a Christian and Muslim.

There are over 30,000 sects of Christianity do I have to register with them all to be considered Christian? No I accept Christ and His Teachings. I don't need approval of others to believe in Christ.

In my opinion, you need the approval of christ to be Christian. if you believe Jesus is your lord and savior (literally not metaphorically and not by message) and he saved you from your sins, that you will be resurrected, and go to the christian heaven, then you are Christian.

But that's another point you raised. Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity have many sects and sects within sects. Nichiren Buddhism says the only Law is The Lotus Sutra. Theravada looks at the Pali. You can't summarize The Buddha's teachings when one school believes in Buddha nature and the other does not. Islam you have the Shia and Suni (but I can't speak intelligently about that). Christianity either you are Catholic or protestant. That in itself is still broad.

In Catholicism, you are not Christian-part of the body of Christ-until you take all the sacraments of the Church.

These religions have core requirements so you can experience the love they experience. If you are a Christian, you would go to a Christian Church, say Christian prayers, and disregard Bahualluah's view of scripture. You'd read the Bible as your source of truth not Bahaullah. Of course, you can read other religious text. But to a Christian only the Bible (and others the Church) are the source of truth.

Same with Buddhism Theravada or Mayahana? Islam - Sunni or Shia?

Yep. Mayahana is a little more flexible. Still, if you believe you have a Buddha nature and in the Pali there is no mention of it, do you look to The Buddha Dharma to figure that out or Bahuallah's words.

Islam is straight to the creator no Bahaullah.

By fully accepting the Founders and Their Holy Scriptures I am already a believer and follower of all Faiths no matter what others may say.

This is my opinion and I am being blunt on purpose. You cannot be a follower of other faiths if you are Bahai. Christianity isn't an "open-minded" religion like Bahai, Universalist Uniterian, and neopagan, among others.

People are part of the Body of Christ. If you disregard the people, how are you Christian?

Exclusiveness is taught by man not the Teachers or Prophets. That's a man made concept. All Faiths are but the expressions of the same Reality.

Christ taught one body of Christ. That's all through the Bible. Everyone who followed the creator and christ were in groups.

1. Moses and Isrealite
2. Jesus and apostles
3. Jesus at the lord's table
4. The Pentecost and spreading the word in acts
5. The development of The Church in Acts

I'm not to versed in the OT. Judiasm is a culture/community religion. Islam is and so is Christianity (when practiced according to scripture)

If you are not part of all of these bodies, you are following their morals but you are not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. It's not a bad thing.

It's accepting that they have their space and you have yours. Putting them in your space is an insult. If you have read my examples of the Deaf Community, that would help you understand where I come from.​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes you are right. Although we accept their Founders and Holy Books they still see us as not part of them. But people once believed the world was flat so humanity changes and learns.

Who knows what the future will bring?

Just know because they don't see you as part of them, you can't be part of them regardless of how you see it. It's not a relationship. Both parties need to agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

Can we have different beliefs and still have peace?

Certainly. But not always. It will of course depend a lot on whether those beliefs allow for such peace. Some of the most popular have become popular because they promise some form of supremacy and / or vengeance, after all.

To a perhaps greater level it will also depend on more general circunstances, mainly economic sustainability, population levels, political maturity and social integration.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I separated the quotes so I can read this better

If you accept Jesus, you cannot accept Buddha, Krishna, and other teachers. There is no "multiple truths is one" in Christianity as in Bahai. You have to drop all the others and only believe in Christ to be Christian.
​

It has nothing to do with reading and accepting their scriptures. It has nothing to do with being Jesus' friend. Jesus may not be my friend according to scripture (if you're not with me you're against me) type of thing, but I have no beef with him. That does not make me Christian just, well, displaying unconditional love. I think you're mixing the two.

Unfortunately, Christianity and most likely Muslim does not share your views. That's why you can be a friend to them but true friendship means they are a friend to you as well. Hence relation-ship.​

Your views are perfectly healthy. I'm not saying you are wrong in morals and beliefs. Anyone can take up morals and beliefs. I am a Spiritualist and a lot of my morals are Buddhist as well. However, until I say "I do" I am not Buddhist. Likewise, until you take up the Christian practice and live in Christ, die in Christ, and resurrected in Christ and believe Christ is more than your friend, you are not Christian. Christianity is a clear cut religion. You can't see it from a Bahai perspective. You can't believe in Baha'ullah. You can't see Christianity through Bahai eyes. That is not Christianity.



"Man" is not an awful word. You are a man. Baha'ullah is a man. Christ is a man. The Buddha Gautama is a man. You are following man beliefs and their interpretations of truth. If not, you would not be Bahai.

In my opinion, Truth is not Bahai, Christian, Pagan, Muslim, or so have you. Not because they are man beliefs. I dont believe in a creator; so, I put a lot of value in beliefs of man since I am a wo/man.

The Buddha did not teach come to him to find truth. He said the truth is within ourselves. Christ, on the other hand, taught truth is of his father through him. Muslim and Jews feel truth is directly from the creator. Bahai believe truth is from all educators. Christ, Muslim, and Jews don't teach that; so, the Bahai view is wrong from their perspective. That is how you view this-their perspective not your own.​

​

That is your right to believe that. By their scripture, that is false. I don't understand why you do not accept the truth of their own teachings since they know more about their own belief than you do.

​

However, you say you are Bahai. You can't be Christian and Bahai at the same time. Christians don't accept dual relationship with both Bahaullauh and Christ. So you have to respect the Christian view not just your own. How? Either follow Christ and his father only or follow Bahaullauh and view christ as your friend not your savior.


All educators I know of not just Christian, Jew, and Muslim teach love. That does not mean you are Christian. It just means you accept the result of Christian values rather than the practice and value itself.

​

How so? You should only believe in god and him only. Baha'ullah is not the way to truth nor interpretation of truth according to scripture.



You can't just believe in the result of the truth (love, compassion, etc) you have to believe, in Jesus. That means you disregard Muhammad, Krishna, and Zoraster.

You have to believe only the creator. Not Christ, not Krishna, not Zoraster.

I don't know about Zoraster but Christ and Muhammad is not in the Hindu belief.

​

It's not enough to believe in the results of their message. You have to live it and believe in it. By doing so, you can't be Muslim and Christian at the same time. The practice is the truth not just the message.



I wouldn't put it that way. To be Catholic, yes, you have to take the sacraments. To be Baptist, yes, you have to be baptized and say the act of contrition. To be Buddhist, yes, you have to follow the practice according to the sect and school you choose. Buddhism isn't one school.

Other religions are not like Bahai. They have requirements in ways you follow their faith. If you are not praying five times a day, how can you consider yourself a practicing Muslim. If you are not taking the Eucharist, how can you consider yourself a practicing Christian/Catholic? If you are Baptist (assuming you have not been baptized) how can you follow the faith if you havent been baptized in Christ?

So, it's better to say that you follow the morals and message of these given faiths. It is inappropriate to call yourself Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc because that is not the faith you adhere to. You are a Bahai and because of that, according to Christianity and Islam, you can't be a Christian and Muslim.



In my opinion, you need the approval of christ to be Christian. if you believe Jesus is your lord and savior (literally not metaphorically and not by message) and he saved you from your sins, that you will be resurrected, and go to the christian heaven, then you are Christian.

But that's another point you raised. Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity have many sects and sects within sects. Nichiren Buddhism says the only Law is The Lotus Sutra. Theravada looks at the Pali. You can't summarize The Buddha's teachings when one school believes in Buddha nature and the other does not. Islam you have the Shia and Suni (but I can't speak intelligently about that). Christianity either you are Catholic or protestant. That in itself is still broad.

In Catholicism, you are not Christian-part of the body of Christ-until you take all the sacraments of the Church.

These religions have core requirements so you can experience the love they experience. If you are a Christian, you would go to a Christian Church, say Christian prayers, and disregard Bahualluah's view of scripture. You'd read the Bible as your source of truth not Bahaullah. Of course, you can read other religious text. But to a Christian only the Bible (and others the Church) are the source of truth.



Yep. Mayahana is a little more flexible. Still, if you believe you have a Buddha nature and in the Pali there is no mention of it, do you look to The Buddha Dharma to figure that out or Bahuallah's words.

Islam is straight to the creator no Bahaullah.



This is my opinion and I am being blunt on purpose. You cannot be a follower of other faiths if you are Bahai. Christianity isn't an "open-minded" religion like Bahai, Universalist Uniterian, and neopagan, among others.

People are part of the Body of Christ. If you disregard the people, how are you Christian?



Christ taught one body of Christ. That's all through the Bible. Everyone who followed the creator and christ were in groups.

1. Moses and Isrealite
2. Jesus and apostles
3. Jesus at the lord's table
4. The Pentecost and spreading the word in acts
5. The development of The Church in Acts

I'm not to versed in the OT. Judiasm is a culture/community religion. Islam is and so is Christianity (when practiced according to scripture)

If you are not part of all of these bodies, you are following their morals but you are not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. It's not a bad thing.

It's accepting that they have their space and you have yours. Putting them in your space is an insult. If you have read my examples of the Deaf Community, that would help you understand where I come from.​

In ages past, all we saw were our differences, but in this age we are beginning to find our oneness and as we discover just how much each of our religions have in common, we are becoming more and more united.