Can You Be Good Without God?

[waitasec]

Yes.

I was an atheist (until 12 y.o) as a kid and i was happy then. Could be because i had a happy childhood and my parents didn't force anything on us.

But with God, i feel even happier and wanted to do more good.

more than a non believer?

 

[linwood]

The concept of how a conscious evolved isn't understood, however it can be understood if it was created by God. Which means that having a conscious validates God. So we are back to humans unable to be good without God. See how that works?

It would also be understood if created by fornits so now we must add the concept of humans unable to be good without fornits.

This is going to get extensive and very convoluted if we keep following your line of reasoning.

 

[linwood]

i don't think it is impossible to keep it away from soceity. for someone that rich it is possible to keep it as a secret. besides, as you see in the OP their names and how much they gave away is used for a purpose and that could never happen without permission. what do you think?

.

I think you don`t understand public stock trading or charitable trust funding.

Any major financial move these guys make is public knowledge since their fortunes were made through the stock market.

Since they use their money in the form of a charitable trust it is further regulated by public entities.

It is documented, published, and distributed as per regulations guiding purchases, trusts, and trades.

They have no choice, Buffet especially is watched like a hawk by every person who ever thought about investing in the market.

It`s highly unlikely either gave permission to be used in this ad/image.

 

[linwood]

Bill Gates on Religion

Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits.
Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?
Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.
Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you'd say you don't know?
Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.


Gates was profiled in a January 13, 1996 TIME magazine cover story. Here are some excerpts compiled by the Drudge Report:
"Isn't there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?" interviewer Walter Isaacson asks Gates "His face suddenly becomes expressionless," writes Isaacson, "his squeaky voice turns toneless, and he folds his arms across his belly and vigorously rocks back and forth in a mannerism that has become so mimicked at MICROSOFT that a meeting there can resemble a round table of ecstatic rabbis."
"I don't have any evidence on that," answers Gates. "I don't have any evidence of that."
He later states, "Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There's a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning."

Bill Gates - Celebrity Atheist List

That`s an atheist refusing to be called out publicly.

Warren Buffet (Couldn`t find much)

He describes himself as religiously agnostic. In Roger Lowenstein's 1995 biography Buffett: The Making of an American Capitalist, he is described and non-religious. "He adopted his father's ethical underpinnings, but not his belief in an unseen divinity."

The 50 Most Brilliant Atheists of All Time

 

[Faithfreedom]

more than a non believer?

i don't know how to measure that. One inkling could be to check out the atheist here and see how happy they sound. (this is assuming that if one is happy, one tends to do more good)

If i had continued as an atheist and grew up as one, i don't know where i will be.
I had drawn a lot of strength from God to help me to study, to face problems, to solve them, etc. Without God in my life, things may have turned out differently. I could have failed in my exams and therefore not have such a good job as i have now. I could have harbored a lot of hate and such, which would make me a bitter man.

 

[waitasec]

i don't know how to measure that. One inkling could be to check out the atheist here and see how happy they sound. (this is assuming that if one is happy, one tends to do more good)

If i had continued as an atheist and grew up as one, i don't know where i will be.
I had drawn a lot of strength from God to help me to study, to face problems, to solve them, etc. Without God in my life, things may have turned out differently. I could have failed in my exams and therefore not have such a good job as i have now. I could have harbored a lot of hate and such, which would make me a bitter man.

exactly. no one can measure happiness or can measure the good inside. which is precisely my point.
where ever one finds strength to do the right thing is absolutely relative.

 

[TobyMizziMonash]

I read this thread with great interest as I am doing research on how much an individual perceives they are close to God, and whether this affects their well-being. It is one thing to consider whether a person believes in God or not, but for those that do believe, it is also worth considering the actual extent of this relationship. One would imagine that beleiving in God but not feeling close to god might actually be quite detrimental compared to someone who believes in god and feels close. This relationship might affect various things, including a willingness to donate/help those in need. What are others thoughts on this?

Also, I am still in need of participants for my research so if you have a spare 5 minutes [it is a very short, anonymous survey and it not related in any way to profit or financial gain] please see my original post in another part of the forums. /shameless plug
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...esis-religion-spirituality-closeness-god.html

 

[EverChanging]

It's neither ethical nor unethical?

Depending on which text we're talking about, it could include things like genocide, torture, severing of limbs, baby-killing, unnecessary killing of creatures, death threats, and barbarians as main characters.

Certainly they do. But the text is just that, a text. It's a book. There's nothing inherently wicked about a book. I read lots of books and watch lots of movies about things I wouldn't believe it ethical to act on.

A religious text may include many passages recording unethical actions (at least, by our standards), but in the end, it's only a book. There are many ancient ways of approaching religious texts on multiple layers of interpretation. The book is nothing without interpretation, which is why I say it's morally neutral.

 

[Smoke]

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God.”


<---snip--->

The organization's legal right to have these policies has been upheld repeatedly by both state and federal courts. In Boy Scouts of America v. Dale, the Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed that as a private organization, the BSA can set its own membership standards.

I absolutely agree with the courts that to the extent the BSA is a private organization and not dipping its hand into the public purse, it has the right to set its own membership standards.

I also agree that the Boy Scouts have the right to believe any damn fool thing they want. However, their holding a particular damn fool opinion doesn't lend it any credibility.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes.

I was an atheist (until 12 y.o) as a kid and i was happy then. Could be because i had a happy childhood and my parents didn't force anything on us.

But with God, i feel even happier and wanted to do more good.

Out of curiosity, why?

I've thought about how belief in God would affect my motivation to do good if I had it, and I've always felt like it would kinda work against it by taking some of the pressure off me to do good.

How does belief in God make you want to do more good?

I absolutely agree with the courts that to the extent the BSA is a private organization and not dipping its hand into the public purse, it has the right to set its own membership standards.

I also agree that the Boy Scouts have the right to believe any damn fool thing they want. However, their holding a particular damn fool opinion doesn't lend it any credibility.

Yeah... but as a former Boy Scout myself, this one really sticks in my craw. Unlike BSA, Scouts Canada accepts (and in fact encourages) LGBT members, but they still have a policy on the books against atheists, and they give basically the same reason as the BSA for it.

I actually looked into becoming a Scout leader, but if they're going to tell me that I'm not wanted, I suppose I'll oblige them.

 

[Faithfreedom]

Out of curiosity, why?

I've thought about how belief in God would affect my motivation to do good if I had it, and I've always felt like it would kinda work against it by taking some of the pressure off me to do good.

How does belief in God make you want to do more good?

Its not that i believe in God and that pressures me into doing good. No, not that way at all.

Its more like a prisoner on death row who is pardoned and set free. He will be so happy that nothing can upset him. Or like after a good vacation, you are in such a good mood that any setback doesn't bother you at all. So when your needs are satisfied, you would emphatise with others and want to help them. Its just natural, i guess. I help and do good, not because God pressures me to do it but because i want to do it. And when i do a bit of good, i see the effects and am more encouraged to do more good. It just positive feedback making the process spiral upwards. Without God, my opinion is that many bad things can happen to dampen this spiral and send it going the other way. But with God, bad events cannot dampen this upward spiral for long.

i mean come on, if God answers your prayers and bless you richly, would you not be on top of the world and just want to do good to others? Of course you would; its just natural.

And Out of curiosity, why do you feel a pressure to do good?

 

[Charity]

Probably a lot of people can be good without God but there are just as many people that can't be good with God......

 

[EverChanging]

And Out of curiosity, why do you feel a pressure to do good?

Humans are not the only species of animal that has a moral code. A species would quickly go instinct if they all fought and killed each other. There are exceptions, of course, but it is natural for a mother to care for her young. It is natural for a species to bind together and help each other out. By benefiting others, members of a species will earn benefit in return. Sometimes older members of a species will allow themselves to be hunted down while the younger members escape. It makes very good sense, evolutionary speaking, that a moral code evolves among species.

In addition to basic moral instincts, humans have also been socialized; this allows our ethics to evolve over time, though experiments in psychology do point to an underlying moral instinct that most people share in common. Some of these instincts can be compromised by brain damage.

A person doesn't necessarily require a god belief or any religious belief to want to do good. It's natural for us to do these things. It benefits others, ourselves, and our species. It helps us create relationships that are beneficial to us. Just because someone doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean they're going to go out and smash puppies.

Animals can tell right from wrong - Telegraph

Brain mishaps produce "cold" morality

Morality and the  Brain

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Its not that i believe in God and that pressures me into doing good. No, not that way at all.

Its more like a prisoner on death row who is pardoned and set free. He will be so happy that nothing can upset him. Or like after a good vacation, you are in such a good mood that any setback doesn't bother you at all. So when your needs are satisfied, you would emphatise with others and want to help them. Its just natural, i guess. I help and do good, not because God pressures me to do it but because i want to do it. And when i do a bit of good, i see the effects and am more encouraged to do more good. It just positive feedback making the process spiral upwards. Without God, my opinion is that many bad things can happen to dampen this spiral and send it going the other way. But with God, bad events cannot dampen this upward spiral for long.

Okay... so trusting in God for your basic needs frees you to think about "higher" causes? I guess I can understand that.

i mean come on, if God answers your prayers and bless you richly, would you not be on top of the world and just want to do good to others? Of course you would; its just natural.

I'd want everyone else to experience good things, but if there's a God running around answering prayers and "blessing people richly", then wouldn't that already be happening without my help?

And Out of curiosity, why do you feel a pressure to do good?

Because I want the world to be better.

If I believed in God, I'd still want the world to be better, but the point that I was getting at is this: if I believed in a God with some sort of divine plan, then I could be reasonably confident that no matter what I do, the world will end up better than I could ever imagine. God's on the case, so there's no real reason for me to be on the case as well.

 

[blueman]

Man has the capacity to do good things because we are made in God's image, but not be considered good absent of a relationship with God his creator.

 

[MW0082]

Probably a lot of people can be good without God but there are just as many people that can't be good with God......

Are there not just as many if not more that do bad with god as well....????

 

[Faithfreedom]

I'd want everyone else to experience good things, but if there's a God running around answering prayers and "blessing people richly", then wouldn't that already be happening without my help?

No because one of the way god works is through human agencies.

if I believed in a God with some sort of divine plan, then I could be reasonably confident that no matter what I do, the world will end up better than I could ever imagine. God's on the case, so there's no real reason for me to be on the case as well.

No because one of the way god works is through human agencies.

You won't get a lot of milage if you feel presurized to do something.
You would last longer if you want to do it.
Go with what you want. Don't force yourself.

 

[Faithfreedom]

Are there not just as many if not more that do bad with god as well....????

Yes there are, with god satan. (but they think they are doing god's work though)

 

[MW0082]

Yes there are, with god satan. (but they think they are doing god's work though)

No, there are murderers, child molestors, rapists, extremists, and they all do horrible things in the name of god. We see it everyday, I just read the new child molestation charges brought against the Catholic Church. How much closer to god is that?

 

[waitasec]

No because one of the way god works is through human agencies.

isn't that putting limits on god?

You won't get a lot of milage if you feel presurized to do something.
You would last longer if you want to do it.
Go with what you want. Don't force yourself.

as i see it, this life is all we have...wouldn't that make life that much more meaningful and inspire one to be good?